Not Only Will Ali Have Beaten Tyson, He Will Have

[JAB5239]

To be fair, Douglas was the benefactor of an extremely long count. Dude should've been KTFO.

No he didn't Jim, and even if he did, its not on the fighter, but the ref administering the count. At no time did Douglas look like he wouldn't have beat it.

[mickey malone]

taken him to school.

Tyson is my favourite fighter, but the more I read about boxing, and find out new things, the more I think Tyson wouldn't have stood a chance against Ali.

First thing that convinces me of an whitewash victory to Ali is his granite chin..
I mean he took that left hook of Frazier and got back up in 2 seconds! like wtf??
Who the hell gets up from a devastating punch like that????
He got up as though nothing had hit him..
Tyson would have trouble getting to Ali all night..He would be trying to come near him, and Ali would just keep him at bay, frustrating Tyson.
If Tyson comes close, I will use the Ali -Foreman example of the rope-a-dope.

While Foreman, is definitely no Tyson, he is still the one of the hardest hitters. However though he is a wild slugger with no technique in his punches, where as Tyson is EXTREMELY skillful with copy book technique and accuracy.

I see this going for possibly 12 rounds, with Ali winning by a wide UD decision.
Tyson has a very good chin, and cannot see him getting ko'ed, however if he does tire depending on his workload througout the fight, he will possibly go down, depending on Ali's intensity.
I mean Ali faced NORTON, FOREMAN, FRAZIER, PATTERSON AND LISTON.
And beat them all, and to say that he would lose to Tyson is a bit far fetched.

Tyson didn't really get tested throughout his career, and was actually stopped by Buster.
People say that Tyson was having problems at the time, well so was Buster, with his mother dying not long before the fight..

A guy who had an awesome jab, and an awesome uppercut, gave Tyson a lot of trouble..
Imagine what Ali would have done..

Congratulations! You've written, diagnosed & answered your own thread better than anyone.. You're 100% right, and I'm NOT being sarcastic..

[Benny Leonard]

Tyson didn't really get tested throughout his career, and was actually stopped by Buster.
People say that Tyson was having problems at the time, well so was Buster, with his mother dying not long before the fight..

A guy who had an awesome jab, and an awesome uppercut, gave Tyson a lot of trouble..
Imagine what Ali would have done..

Tyson was tested but I do think you are right if you are pointing to an in-prime ATG top challenger that say, Evander Holyfield and Lewis (at their best) would have given him. Holyfield was actually setup to fight Tyson while Tyson was still with Cayton and Rooney but things fell apart when Tyson left them and went with King. The fight was made again but Tyson lost to Douglas and was off to jail a little further down the road.
It's also why I say it leaves that "?" in Tyson's career, even while he was trained and with Rooney. We really just don't know 100% how good he was.

What we should also point to (which tends to go unnoticed) is that Tyson did want the rematch against Douglas and Douglas turned down his offer which I read was reported to be 20 million.
Douglas continued to hold out until Holyfield and a promoter offered him 24 million for the fight. Something on those lines for the figure.



Now here is the BIG difference with having the problems they had during that time of the fight.

What helped Tyson's motivation in boxing?

I would say having an opportunity to stay out of the ******, make some money, earn some self-respect, and in return, give something back to Cus D'Amato; a furthered legacy of having trained the youngest HW Champion of the World (yet again) and on to ATG status. A silent deal was basically set in place.

Cus motivated Tyson to do well, to be the best.
He broke Tyson down and started to rebuild him by building up his character and confidence (as said by Rooney).
After Cus's death a perfect opportunity was there for Mike to quit and fall, but Cus's name/memory was used as a motivational tool (after his death) for Tyson to stay on track. The Goal? Become the youngest HW Champion in history and to unify the titles; something that hadn't been done in a while.
All this was reinforced by Jim Jacobs (who would die) and Kevin Rooney.

Once Tyson fulfilled his unification bout (against Spinks) he packed his bags and left Catskill. In the Spinks post-fight-press-conference the words Tyson's speak is a bit concerning. He starts to speak of frustrations and on a possible "retirement."
He basically retired that night as far as a peak/trained fighter.


So how does this relate to Douglas?

Douglas was an up and down fighter up until he finally got his act together and went on a winning streak. By that point, his concentration was boxing only and not other things.
He got himself in shape and off he went.
According to sources, before the Tyson fight, Douglas got a call from his mother and she was worried for him. Douglas responded to her that he was going to win; he was going to beat Mike Tyson. Buster was so convincing that Douglas's mother believed him.
When she died, the reinforcement of her belief in him from his promise to her boosted his confidence and strength within himself or so I think.
He was in tip-top shape both mentally and physically and everything came together that night while Tyson was headed for disaster. One fighter was going sky-high and the other fighter was on fire ready to crash and burn into the sea.

Notice after that fight Buster fought Holyfield and showed up in piss-poor shape. He wasn't even the same fighter that lost to Tucker and he sure the hell wasn't the same fighter that put together 6 wins in a row leading up to Tyson which included wins over Berbick and McCall.

So you see it's how one views the "problems." Sometimes they can do us harm and other times they can be great motivational tools. Kind of like poverty does for some people. Some use it as a tool to succeed in life earning themselves a fortune and a better life and others use it as an excuse to get on drugs, **** AIDS **********s and wither away and die.

Even in the Spinks fight for Tyson, McCall points out in training leading up to that fight, he dropped Tyson. Tyson did get right back up and fight, but Tyson wasn't his usual self in training. But after he was dropped and in the coming training sessions/days, something clicked and Tyson got his **** together and the results were....KO 1 over Spinks. But after that, it was over of Iron Mike.

Remember, there wasn't a time in Tyson's life that he didn't have problems but it is how he dealt with it which was the difference in deciding the outcome of his success and failure.
What helped was having certain people around him and wanting to stay on track to reach a Goal.



Note: Tucker had a nice solid jab, a good uppercut, a long reach, 220+ pounds and 6'5 in height...as well as being undefeated when he met Tyson.
Tucker is not Ali but there is a point to be made about that fight.
Tyson won a UD.

[mickey malone]

Sorry to impose, but wasn't Douglas KO'd during the fight.. Can't remember the exact round, may have been the penultimate one, but I do recal a 14 second count, from a Tyson uppercut.. Even so, Douglas fought out of his skin that night....

[Benny Leonard]

Sorry to impose, but wasn't Douglas KO'd during the fight.. Can't remember the exact round, may have been the penultimate one, but I do recal a 14 second count, from a Tyson uppercut.. Even so, Douglas fought out of his skin that night....

It still goes by what the ref is counting to the fallen fighter so if Douglas did really have his wits together during the count, he was just doing what most fighters do...buying some more time waiting near "9" to get up.

[QueensburyRules]

I think Ali would have decisioned Tyson with a few troubled spots along the way.

- - Guarantee that Tyson would've whooped the ******s outta Ali when he was still with his alltime HOF team. After Spinks, and speaking of Michael, who ever looses his title vs Leon?

[Anomalocaris]

- - Guarantee that Tyson would've whooped the ******s outta Ali when he was still with his alltime HOF team. After Spinks, and speaking of Michael, who ever looses his title vs Leon?

Nice wind up.

Ali was stopped once due to Angelo calling it off and he already had Parkinsons by then.

Prime Tyson this prime Tyson that.

No matter what the vast list of excuses his fanboys make he was KTFO by Buster at the grand old age of 23.

Cus.
Rooney.
King.
Givens.
His corner.
A condom.
Money.
Drugs.
Whores.

Etc, etc.

Oh and they say he was never the same after prison, well perhaps he should not have ****d Washington then?

'67 Ali would easily outbox, outspeed and TKO an utterly exhausted Tyson by round 10.

De Ja Vu without the knockdown.

[QueensburyRules]

Nice wind up.

Ali was stopped once due to Angelo calling it off and he already had Parkinsons by then.

Prime Tyson this prime Tyson that.

No matter what the vast list of excuses his fanboys make he was KTFO by Buster at the grand old age of 23.

Cus.
Rooney.
King.
Givens.
His corner.
A condom.
Money.
Drugs.
Whores.

Etc, etc.

Oh and they say he was never the same after prison, well perhaps he should not have ****d Washington then?

'67 Ali would easily outbox, outspeed and TKO an utterly exhausted Tyson by round 10.

De Ja Vu without the knockdown.

- - U makin' cuses fer Ali who I clearly saw was operating under a different inferior physical and mental guise, hence Ali getting seriously beat up by Wepner in Podunk, Oh after Big George first did it in Africa.

Couldn't outspeed the club footed Frazier the first fight were both were at their bests. Yo, cement feet Chuvalo on short notice put Ali in the hospital their first fight while Chavalo took his wife out dancing the rest of the night away.

[Marchegiano]

Yeah, lowkey nah doe brah.

[Anomalocaris]

- - U makin' cuses fer Ali who I clearly saw was operating under a different inferior physical and mental guise, hence Ali getting seriously beat up by Wepner in Podunk, Oh after Big George first did it in Africa.

Couldn't outspeed the club footed Frazier the first fight were both were at their bests. Yo, cement feet Chuvalo on short notice put Ali in the hospital their first fight while Chavalo took his wife out dancing the rest of the night away.

What motivates your pitiful trolling?

Does it give you an ******?

Sad.

Very sad indeed