ray robinson vs willie pep as amateurs?

[QueensburyRules]

Let me recall the fight for those unfortunates who missed it and are not smart enough to find it now. Old Robby looked like Stringbean against little Willie, towering vegetable-like above the sprout. The outcome was never in question, Jab, & my Shoulder. I believe Willie wore black trunks. Consult Queensbree, boys, for confirmation of this by another witness.

- - Indeed, bof in black trunks as most were even if not black in them black and white days...

[JAB5239]

In short, there has never been any film of the Pep-Robinson amateur fight. And why would there be? It was above a feed store and Pep by his own admission had no idea who he was fighting at the time.

End of thread.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Indeed, bof in black trunks as most were even if not black in them black and white days...

As of 1928 the NYSAC ordered all fighters to wear purple and red trunks after complaints by fans in the cheap seats who complained when two fighters would appear wearing the same color.

There was no thought to how this would affect b&w filming (see date), thus to us today it looks like both fighters are wearing black trunks, when usually neither were.

Pointless off topic trivia sorry.

[QueensburyRules]

As of 1928 the NYSAC ordered all fighters to wear purple and red trunks after complaints by fans in the cheap seats who complained when two fighters would appear wearing the same color.

There was no thought to how this would affect b&w filming (see date), thus to us today it looks like both fighters are wearing black trunks, when usually neither were.

Pointless off topic trivia sorry.

- - Excellent point well noted. I eschewed many classics for just that reason.

The film guys in the "little" fights were completely extraneous.

Even today I still see fights with majority white or black or other color trunks. When the fighters are also the same stature and skin color, no need to rhapsodize over the problematic scoring, but hey...only in boxing folks!

[Flickergrab98]

I remember watching a video where Pep recalled a match from early in his amateur career. He was panicking before the match, worrying whether the guy he was about to fight was really good. His coach reassured him by saying, “Trust me, if this guy was so great, he wouldn’t be fighting you.”
This line of reasoning helped make Pep feel better and was ready to get in the ring. As Pep told it, he then discovered that same guy later became known as Sugar Ray Robinson.

[markusmod]

In short, there has never been any film of the Pep-Robinson amateur fight. And why would there be? It was above a feed store and Pep by his own admission had no idea who he was fighting at the time.

End of thread.

Jab does a mic dropping post.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am not saying that the fight was filmed but because it was an amateur fight above a general store and Pep didn't know who he was fighting doesn't rule out the possibility it was filmed.

The 8mm home camera and projection system hit the market in 1932 and for those with some money it became popular quickly.

As early as 1952 my father who was a mere laborer was able to buy a system of camera; projector, and lights. He would go around looking for things to film.

For example I now have (and only God knows why) pretty much the entire show from Frontiertown in upstate NY, circa 1961. Can-can dancers, stage coach robberies, shoot outs, and a lynching of a horse thief. (The good old days, when we thought that shlt was good for kids to see. LOL) Later on I would ask my dad, "Why didn't you film more of Cheri [sister] and me instead of these crappy shows?)

When I filmed my kids later on at Universal, I would film them watching Barney, not Barney.

Anyway it is not impossible that a hobbyist in 1938 could have been above that feed store that day with his camera looking for something to film.

I am not saying it was likely but I am saying it was not impossible, the home 8 mm craze swept the nation with millions of amateurs annoying their neighborhoods by showing up at every local event looking for something to film. People never seemed to know how to act in front of the camera, with my father saying "Do something." So of course they would wave.

So if you ever need footage of 1950s looking people waving back at a camera contact me, I've got.

P.S. The only thing I see getting in the way would be the lighting, that would have been a problem, but the cameras were already hand held and small enough for home use on Christmas morning.

[QueensburyRules]

Here's what Pep had to say about their 1938 encounter in the 1973 book "Friday's Heroes" (page 7):

Well I fight this guy and he's all over me. He's too good. Too big. He's punching me and punching me and I'm just trying to hang in there. When it ended and the guy won I heard his name was Ray Roberts. Later on I find out that, too, is a phony name because he was really Sugar Ray Robinson.

Doesn't sound to me, like they "canceled each other out", or that there "was nothing in it".

Also, Pep died in 2006, at the ripe old age of 84... so I strongly doubt he was senile already in '73!

- - Just telling you what I saw in a poor quality B/W filming. It wasn't filmed ringside, but more like from rafters at an angle that gave some horizontal perspective needed.

Yeah, Ray throwing fuzzy blizzards of air with Pep down low kinda obscured. Nobody hurt, staggered, or even hit flush near as I could tell though doubtless a few shots did. Their recreation as elders much slower and seemingly choreographed to match my not much between them description.

[Willie Pep 229]

There seems to be a contradiction between Pep's version of the story and Robinson's history.

Pep states that Robinson fought under a different name, but Robinson's story says he fought under the name Ray Robinson from his very first fight (1936) at the age of 15.

From: Sugar Ray Robinson, Dancing For Dimes

Ray’s amateur boxing debut, in 1936, was for the Salem Crescent Athletic Club. One of the club’s fighters had quit the team and Gainford needed a replacement. Being 15 years old, Ray was underage and wouldn’t be permitted to fight so Gainford pulled another fighters AAU card from his pocket, gave it to young Walker and said “that’s you”. He got the nickname “Sugar” after a reporter exclaimed that Ray was “as sweet as sugar.” Thus Walker Smith jr. became Sugar Ray Robinson.

No clue as to how good the source about is.

Robinson (under the name Robinson) won the NY Golden Gloves in 1939 and 1940. That's confirmed by Boxrec.

No evidence of Pep fighting in the NY Golden Gloves.

According to a poster on another site Robinson washed out in the preliminary rounds in the 1938 tournament. The same year as the Connecticut fight was suspose to take place. (Novice Round)

There just doesn't seem to be any evidence that SRR ever fought under a different name.

Also SRR shouldn't be as big as Pep states, winning the Featherweight title in 1939 it is likely he was still under 125 pounds in '38.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Boxing history more lore than factual thanks to the Bert Sugar Hat & Cigar Boxing Expert Act the media sc****s up for boxing expertise.