Ali vs. Liston II - Hypothetical Question

[Hawkins]

After losing to Ali in the first bout Sonny went into intense training for the return match. It's been said that it was the best training camp he had ever had. He also thought, from what I've read, that he would be able to deal with Ali's superior speed in the return fight.

However the fight had to be postponed because Ali had to have surgery for a hernia. When it was postponed it was said that the wind noticeably left Liston's sails so to speak and he didn't have the energy or the gumption to put himself thru the paces like that again.

My question - If the rematch had went on as planned do you think Liston could have possibly beaten Ali or possibly made a good fight out of it? Or do you think that no matter what Ali wins?

[ForemanCrossArm]

um..... i think its pretty obvious that ali either wins or liston ends up dead soon there after..

[Panamaniac]

My question - If the rematch had went on as planned do you think Liston could have possibly beaten Ali or possibly made a good fight out of it? Or do you think that no matter what Ali wins?

Liston probably would have acquitted himself more admirably had the fight not been postponed. Still, a vastly superior Ali would have defeated him anyway, probably by TKO between the 5th. and 10th. round.

[Terry A]

Liston probably would have acquitted himself more admirably had the fight not been postponed. Still, a vastly superior Ali would have defeated him anyway, probably by TKO between the 5th. and 10th. round.

Plus, the big psychological swing that both fighters would have for bout # 2.
Liston's confidence would have to have been shaken after enduring the speed of the younger and faster Clay. And Ali's already supreme confidence in himself would have taken the "fear of the unknown" edge off of him in the rematch. I think the rematch would have been just as dominating for Ali as their first match up. By this time, Liston's time had come and gone, and he's past his peak. Clay (Ali on the rematch) was just entering his prime.

All the wishing and hoping in the world would not have turned back the hands of time.

Ali would face a similar "waterloo" in his own right years later when he faced off against a young man named Larry Holmes. All the wishing and hoping for Ali to pull off yet another miracle would not be enough.

All that being said, I have always felt that Liston is a very under-rated fighter. He just would not have been able to handle the Ali of the early 1960's no matter how hard he trained.

[JAB5239]

Liston probably would have acquitted himself more admirably had the fight not been postponed. Still, a vastly superior Ali would have defeated him anyway, probably by TKO between the 5th. and 10th. round.

[COLOR="Navy"]Good post. Ali had Listons number.....its as simple as that.[/COLOR]

[StarshipTrooper]

I think he would have made a good fight of it: He WAS an ATG afterall. That being said I see Ali still winning it just not in a dominating fashion.

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

At around this time, Ali did have some trouble with George Chuvalo and Doug Jones, who pressured him and landed some good shots. Both of those were inferior to Liston, so the fight can't be dismissed as just Ali having his number. Not saying Liston would win, but a prime and motivated Liston would make Ali earn the victory.

[JAB5239]

At around this time, Ali did have some trouble with George Chuvalo and Doug Jones, who pressured him and landed some good shots. Both of those were inferior to Liston, so the fight can't be dismissed as just Ali having his number. Not saying Liston would win, but a prime and motivated Liston would make Ali earn the victory.

Liston was thought of as a beast, while Chuvalo and Jones were not quite second rate, but certainly noy in the class of Sonny. I have no doubt Ali would have been lax in his training and awarness of them compared to being sharp as a tac for Liston. I could be wrong, but thats just how I see it.

[Panamaniac]

Liston was thought of as a beast, while Chuvalo and Jones were not quite second rate, but certainly noy in the class of Sonny. I have no doubt Ali would have been lax in his training and awarness of them compared to being sharp as a tac for Liston. I could be wrong, but thats just how I see it.

Not to take anything away Liston who was indeed a formidable champion and imposing figure, but his image as a "beast" was unduly magnified by his two first-round annihilations of one man - Floyd "The Rabbit" Patterson, who had a glass jaw.

[JAB5239]

Not to take anything away Liston who was indeed a formidable champion and imposing figure, but his image as a "beast" was unduly magnified by his two first-round annihilations of one man - Floyd "The Rabbit" Patterson, who had a glass jaw.

I gotta disagree my friend. His image as a beast was magnified because he cleaned out almost the whole top 10 in devastating fashion before ever being given the chance to fight Patterson. Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams, Roy Harris and Nino Valdez were all crushed by him along with some others in the top 10 who's names are not so easily recognized today, but were top fighters just the same.