Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Brassangel]

Than you Poet, ForemanCrossArm, and Yaman for understanding one of the things I was trying to say.

Not only does punching power come from physiology, but also timing, technique, etc. Yes, I am saying that Lewis did not hit as hard as Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, or even Frazier. Jack Dempsey was another guy who fought opponents much bigger than he was, and he still knocked 'em out (and broke their bones).

@them_apples: You still didn't address the issue of opponents KO %, quality of opposition, etc., in regards to why Holmes and Ali would simply embarass Tua. The New Zealander did manage to get close to Lewis, who had half the chin of either Holmes or Ali, and moved far slower than they did, and yet Lewis felt as though Tua didn't hit very hard. Read again, the quotes I posted.

[them_apples]

@them_apples: You still didn't address the issue of opponents KO %, quality of opposition, etc., in regards to why Holmes and Ali would simply embarass Tua. The New Zealander did manage to get close to Lewis, who had half the chin of either Holmes or Ali, and moved far slower than they did, and yet Lewis felt as though Tua didn't hit very hard. Read again, the quotes I posted.

I never said Tua would walk through ali or holmes, I said his chin was better (or at least thats what I ment).

I could defienently see a holmes picking Tua apart because of his jab speed and over all better skill, Tua wouldn't be able to reach him. I young Ali might be able to beat a Tua, but after seeing what Frazier did to him I beg to differ.
Just remember though, Ali didn't always have a hard jaw, back when he was younger he was a baby face.

I have no idea why lewis said Tua can't punch, I've heard stories of of Tua's punch being devastating..

[LondonRingRules]

If Tua couldn't hurt the normally questionably-jawed Lewis, or take out Byrd, who said of Tua, "I got into the ropes this time, I was just proving that I can stay in there with the big guys. I can see punches real good. He didn't hurt me on the ropes." ( then he wouldn't touch Holmes or Ali.

** Lewis easily has at least as good a chin as Holmes. Lewis was never dropped by 200lb heavies like Holmes was and fought much stiffer, bigger, stronger comp than Holmes did.

Your KO% show such a difference as to be marginally significant, assuming you calculated correctly.

I could care less about some dubious out of context quote aboiut Tua's power. His record tells a different story. After they engaged briefly, Lewis decided to box carefully rather than open himself up to Tua's power. Smart decision since he had the size, strength, and reach. Holmes only has reach which Tua would walk through.

Lewis, Tyson, Holy and Bowe would win the lion's share in a series against Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Norton as noble as those warriors were.

[them_apples]

Lewis, Tyson, Holy and Bowe would win the lion's share in a series against Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Norton as noble as those warriors were.

That's probably true, those old fighters all had glaring weaknesses..I could especially see A young Tyson KO'ing Ali since his style was made to order.

[Lubutheimmortal]

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.George Foreman
4.Joe Frazier
5.Gene Tunney
6.Sonny Liston
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Jack Dempsey
9.Jack Johnson
10.Ezzard Charles

[StarshipTrooper]

That's probably true, those old fighters all had glaring weaknesses..I could especially see A young Tyson KO'ing Ali since his style was made to order.

Tyson nuthuggers ALWAYS seem to think EVERYBODY'S style was made to order

Poet

[WelshDevilRob]

1.Lennox Lewis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.George Foreman
4.Jack Johnson
5.Larry Holmes
6.Joe Louis
7.Sonny Liston
8.Joe Frazier
9.Mike Tyson
10.Ike Ibeabuchi

[them_apples]

Tyson nuthuggers ALWAYS seem to think EVERYBODY'S style was made to order

Thats not true, anyone who tries to dance around the ring gets KO'ed simple as that.

The guys that beat Tyson all toughed it out with him, tied him up and out brawled him (apart from Lewis who was just bigger, but definitely had power..and it was a shot Tyson)

Name one skipping little flamer that has taken Tyson down by running and jabbing or covering up and hanging on the ropes

[StarshipTrooper]

Thats not true, anyone who tries to dance around the ring gets KO'ed simple as that.

The guys that beat Tyson all toughed it out with him, tied him up and out brawled him (apart from Lewis who was just bigger, but definitely had power..and it was a shot Tyson)

Name one skipping little flamer that has taken Tyson down by running and jabbing or covering up and hanging on the ropes

How about Botha until he did something dumb?

More to the point, Douglas beat Tyson by moving and jabbing and mixing in lead rights. Hmmm. Sounds an aweful lot like the way Ali and Holmes fought. You may want to watch that fight again (if you can bear it). BTW, James Tillis made Tyson look foolish with his stick and move tactics. Noticing a trend here? Tyson was NEVER so all-powerful that he couldn't be beaten regardless of the tactics used. Even in his prime years I believed he could be beaten (my candidate was Witherspoon). Of couse when a fighter is fed a steady diet of no-hopers he probably isn't going to lose. A pulse doesn't qualify a fighter to have reasonable shot at winning and quite frankly a pulse was all the vast majority of Tyson's prime opponents had going for them.

Poet

[them_apples]

How about Botha until he did something dumb?

More to the point, Douglas beat Tyson by moving and jabbing and mixing in lead rights. Hmmm. Sounds an aweful lot like the way Ali and Holmes fought. You may want to watch that fight again (if you can bear it). BTW, James Tillis made Tyson look foolish with his stick and move tactics. Noticing a trend here? Tyson was NEVER so all-powerful that he couldn't be beaten regardless of the tactics used. Even in his prime years I believed he could be beaten (my candidate was Witherspoon). Of couse when a fighter is fed a steady diet of no-hopers he probably isn't going to lose. A pulse doesn't qualify a fighter to have reasonable shot at winning and quite frankly a pulse was all the vast majority of Tyson's prime opponents had going for them.

Poet

I'm seriously losing respect for you, especially seeing you continuously rip on my comments.

A Botha?? lol Botha is as slow as mud and Tyson is old, past his prime and has no boxing initiative whatsoever(yet he still knocked him out, so your point doesn't even count). "Hey Trevor Berbick beat up Ali haha!" that's how stupid in comparison that fight is and you know it. Yes Francios Botha has very similar footwork to Ali, very fast quick fighter..(sarcasm)

Douglas has absolutely nothing in common with Ali. Ali was foot work and hand speed, and doing little tricks like rope a dope to wear his opponents down. Buster Douglas continuously hammered the cocky Tyson by out brawling him, not dancing and jabbing. It's not like I haven't seen the fight.

A steady diet of no-hopers? Tyson fought some excellent competition, Spinks, Berbick, Holmes (Holmes was still game, he re-took some titles)ruddock, and Bruno to name a few...

If you think that Tyson was just randomly beat up by some bum like James Douglas then you are mistaken, you need to watch more Tyson documentaries -- he was just boozing it up, not training, and under the ever watchful eye of Don King...