Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[-CANE-]

How he pulled himself up and ended up winning is still beyond me, he also did it in the Snipes fight as well. Got knocked down in the 7th in both fights and won in the 11th in both fights.

[Hawkins]

Remember too that Louis was fighting around a fight per month and when you're fighting that frequently, in any era, you will eventually run out of top competition and move on to fighting the less talented fighters. ALSO, some of the so-called bums were VERY good fighters such as Max Baer, genuine talents such as Nathan Mann, and dangerous punchers such as Buddy Baer and Tony Galento. You can't make these evaluations in a vacuum and you can't assume an opponent of Louis was a bum simply because YOU never heard of them.

Nice shout out for Ezzard Charles on your avatar and signature: Great to see!

Poet

I would never make the assumption about any fighter. You'll never hear/see me degrade a fighter in anyway. I try to research a particular person before I make any statements regarding them. But like I said, anyone willing to step thru the ropes doesn't deserve condemnation from anyone from a message board.

Ezzard is one of my all-time favorites. I love alot of the modern fighters but the old-school guys fascinate me beyond belief so thats where most of my interest are.

[LondonRingRules]

I have to say..I personally think Holmes had the best Chin in heavyweight history, possibly along side Holyfield. The way he gets up from Shavers shots is amazing, i remember the 1st time i watched the fight and Holmes went down after that massive shot by shavers and thinking "i thought Holmes won this fight!!" somehow he pulls himself off the canvas! a great champion once said " A Champion is someone who gets up even when they cant" - Holmes was definatley a great champion!

** That fight was notable because:

1. Larry almost knocks himself out on the ring post after getting up and lurching into it.

2. Shavers goes into a blind frenzy and isn't able to follow up with anything, and then Holmes recovers a half a minute later and round over. This points to Shavers weaknesses. By all rights he should've been able to easily KO Ali and Holmes who were light hitting enough that he could go enough rounds to finally land his Sunday punch. He wasn't able to follow up at this level.

3. Holmes is credited with an iron jaw, yet the Lewis/McCall 1 ref wouldn't have bothered to checkLarry out before waving off the fight after getting up like that. Shavers would be champ and Larry's bandwagoneers would have been claiming Holmes had a glass jaw, especially seeing how a limited smaller heavy like Snipes put him deep in doodoo, and how easily Tyson disposed of him. Weaver caught him well and had him reeling at one point and then the shame of Butterbean.

BTW, Poet, let me be the first to apoligize to you. I assumed you to be a nice healthy poster, but I find out you have these other problems that I really shouldn't exacerbate in the interest of your health. Maybe one of the posters can pass this on.

Back to the point for the rest. Stop whining about Larry being underrated. He's got a good rating and you undermine his achievements. Are one of you Larry?

[-CANE-]

** That fight was notable because:

1. Larry almost knocks himself out on the ring post after getting up and lurching into it.

2. Shavers goes into a blind frenzy and isn't able to follow up with anything, and then Holmes recovers a half a minute later and round over. This points to Shavers weaknesses. By all rights he should've been able to easily KO Ali and Holmes who were light hitting enough that he could go enough rounds to finally land his Sunday punch. He wasn't able to follow up at this level.

3. Holmes is credited with an iron jaw, yet the Lewis/McCall 1 ref wouldn't have bothered to checkLarry out before waving off the fight after getting up like that. Shavers would be champ and Larry's bandwagoneers would have been claiming Holmes had a glass jaw, especially seeing how a limited smaller heavy like Snipes put him deep in doodoo, and how easily Tyson disposed of him. Weaver caught him well and had him reeling at one point and then the shame of Butterbean.

BTW, Poet, let me be the first to apoligize to you. I assumed you to be a nice healthy poster, but I find out you have these other problems that I really shouldn't exacerbate in the interest of your health. Maybe one of the posters can pass this on.

Back to the point for the rest. Stop whining about Larry being underrated. He's got a good rating and you undermine his achievements. Are one of you Larry?

LRR - I can agree with you regarding had the ref been the same one as Lewis/McCall I then the fight would have been stopped, and a lot of people might have questioned his jaw. I think Holmes had a really good chin but obviously could be dropped but it's his recuperative powers that are great. Snipes while not as hard a hitter as Shavers could still hit and caught Holmes with a great shot which again he recovered from. Tyson fight he was way past his prime and he gave Tyson problems for a few rounds and it took Tyson a whole round and 3 knockdowns to keep him down. Reverse their ages and Holmes would have had Tyson ko'd within 6 rounds but then everyone would have said Yeah! but it wasn't a prime Tyson. I thought Larry fought as well as could be expected against Tyson considering his age and how out of shape he was and hadn't fought for 3 years. If he wasn't as good as you say and Tyson was as great as you think he should have done a Carl Williams on him and ko'd him in the 1st round. I don't understand what you mean by the shame of Butterbean he beat him, so Bean was credited with a knockdown big deal, getting ko'd and beaten up by Danny Williams is a bigger shame.

[LondonRingRules]

Tyson fight he was way past his prime and he gave Tyson problems for a few rounds and it took Tyson a whole round and 3 knockdowns to keep him down. Reverse their ages and Holmes would have had Tyson ko'd within 6 rounds but then everyone would have said Yeah! but it wasn't a prime Tyson. I thought Larry fought as well as could be expected against Tyson considering his age and how out of shape he was and hadn't fought for 3 years. If he wasn't as good as you say and Tyson was as great as you think he should have done a Carl Williams on him and ko'd him in the 1st round. I don't understand what you mean by the shame of Butterbean he beat him, so Bean was credited with a knockdown big deal, getting ko'd and beaten up by Danny Williams is a bigger shame.

** Nonsense. The only fighters who were able to put a beating on Tyson were Douglas, Holy 1, and Lewis, and Tyson knocked out Douglas by any fair measure and gave as good as he got to Holy before the 8th round headbutt left him woozy. Lewis was the only one to completely outclass him, and even there Lewis used legal leverage to insist the fight be held without a Tyson tuneup that he wanted against Mercer. All these losses take place after he has to start taking psychiatric meds to stablize him for the public.

Tyson beat the hell out of Williams before tearing his knee up and then quit on the canvas, crippled. Quit in the corner against McBride when he couldn't knock him out the first 2 rounds and got gassed. He was a 3 rd fighter at best at that point, not even close to the same type of career as the more dreary but stable Holmes.

Larry not nearly as strong in his prime, but hungry enough after 3 consecutive losses to the Mikes to put together a career cherry in his comeback with the Mercer win.

Reverse Tyson's and Larry's ages, and Larry just a skinny punk kid that gets clocked out with the first landed Tyson punch, not even a glimmer of being a pro. Go pull that BS on Butterfly or Boozo, not me.

Break down the Tyson/Holmes fight for ya:

Holmes: 37, past his best, but seething white hot fire over his treatment at the hands of Spinks. Fielding offers of a match every month, training in the gym every day, hating this new squeak, young Tyson. So he starts scouting Tyson fights and starts getting feelers, so figures that Tyson has the perfect style for him to regain his title.

Tyson is respectful of Holmes' legend the first round, starting very slow for him, giving Larry a chance to shake himself out and check out Tyson. Tyson starts to turn it up the 2nd, by the 3rd the first KD comes, and by the 4th it's just a brutal clinic as Larry ends up paralyzed on the canvas, cursing his corner for not helping him up fast enough after the count is over.

Really elementary stuff, a Tyson clinic.

[them_apples]

why the hell do people think old fighters were tougher because thy had more fights? Every pro even nowadays spars everyday with other pros so whats the difference.

And yea, Tyson beats Larry every time, only maybe a few more rounds would be needed against a younger Larry, but all in all, Tyson would adapt and knock him out.

[-Antonio-]

why the hell do people think old fighters were tougher because thy had more fights? Every pro even nowadays spars everyday with other pros so whats the difference.

And yea, Tyson beats Larry every time, only maybe a few more rounds would be needed against a younger Larry, but all in all, Tyson would adapt and knock him out.

Oh about 6-8 ounces of leather.

Head gear too...

[-CANE-]

LRR - Why do you have to make excuses for Tyson's defeats, he got beat fair and square just deal with it and take your nose out of his backside.

A prime Larry Holmes would beat a prime Tyson 7 out of 10.
If a prime Tyson gets busted up and beaten by Douglas then Holmes does the same. Douglas and Holmes were quite similar in their stances and the way they throw their punches, only Holmes was faster, hit harder and had a better chin and better recuperative powers. Tyson never beat anyone who stood up to him, he was your classic bully. Tyson didn't even have the heart to get up after Danny Williams floored him, and don't give me more bulls**t about tearing his knee, Williams tore his heart out and stuffed it right down his throat. At the same age Holmes had the heart to keep getting up after Tyson knocked him down and tried everything in his power to win that fight even though deep down he knew he never could, that is a REAL Champion.

Tyson was explosive and had some power especially against the smaller heavyweights and the ones with no chin or heart, but against truly decent fighters or ones with the will to tough it out he always struggled.

Tyson was powerful and looked really powerful against lower grade opposition but I think these Tyson NUTHUGGERS overate his power.

Against Thomas after staggering him he landed 17 unanswered punches on his exposed chin with the majority landed cleanly before Thomas fell to the canvas, Shavers,Foreman and probably Lewis would not have needed that many to put him down.

How many punches did he land cleanly on Danny Williams who was a journeyman heavyweight, plenty Williams took them all then lands a barrage of punches no where near as clean as Tyson's or as hard and Iron Mike sinks to the canvas and doesn't get up and feeling sorry for himself.

That's why Holmes is underated and Tyson is overated always has been and always will be, so no matter how much I educate you on this you will never see sense unless you take them rose tinted glasses off but I suspect you never will. Your just like a lot (Not All) of Tyson's fans, you make excuses for his defeats and when discussing who could beat who you remember him knocking over and out lesser heavyweights in a very impressive and devastating manner and say PRIME Tyson would definately take so and so out within so many rounds and that's it for you end of discussion. There is never any reasoning with you.

Don't get wrong I like Tyson alot and was probably one of the most exciting and explosive fighters in the heavyweights, and against the lesser heavyweights no one disposed of them as impressively as Tyson which made him look better than he actually was, saying that on his day with his power which is not as good as most people make out but still powerful and explosive nonetheless he always had a punchers chance and could of beat any heavyweight in history, but it would have have to have been within 4-5 rounds then the greats close the gap and start dishing out their own punishment and either win on points or stop him middle to late rounds.

[Hawkins]

why the hell do people think old fighters were tougher because thy had more fights? Every pro even nowadays spars everyday with other pros so whats the difference.

And yea, Tyson beats Larry every time, only maybe a few more rounds would be needed against a younger Larry, but all in all, Tyson would adapt and knock him out.

I don't think it's that they were tougher the older guys were just more well rounded technically and loads more experience than most of the guys around today. They fought alot more often and were generally more well rounded in skills than modern fighters of today.

Of course most fought so often for financial reason but regardless it made them better, more experienced, fighters. Plus they weren't as protected and coddled as much as the newer fighters are.

[-CANE-]

Old timers were not afraid of getting beat but todays fighters are they all seem obsessed with having an undefeated record. (With the exception of Tony Booth) Seriously though I agree with Hawkins in the sense that todays fighters are more protected than the ones of yesteryear. I wonder when the obsession with not losing a fight started with fighters, was it when Rocky Marciano retired undefeated and now everyone wants to emulate him. Certain unbeaten fighters pick and choose their opponents in the hope of protecting their record. I think that's one of the reasons I admire Lennox Lewis so much he wasn't afraid to fight anyone and when he did lose he wasn't afraid to get back in the ring with them and prove it was a fluke, he fought everyone in his era and beat them all as well with the exception of 2 fighters who avoided him for obvious reasons that being Bowe and Moorer.