Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

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** Holmes is a well known name, having appeared on public airwaves during most every title fight of his career. Most of the public was completely accepting of Holmes, but the glamour of boxing at the time was at welter and middle, so Larry felt neglected and started mouthing off.

People like me started to pay attention and wondered about the quality of his opponents when other prime good heavies like Coetzee, Page, Tate, Tucker, Tubbs, Thomas were making their chops on the public airwaves.

Larry is in most top 10 lists, often in the top 5, so I don't see how you can say he's underrated unless you want him first or second. I believe IBRO has him around the 6th slot which is arguable given the questionable nature of the bookends of his career. He did show some moxie during his comeback and his victory over Mercer may have been his best win over a prime contender, though others may say Cooney, so I guess a case can be made for him in the mid 10.

It's easy to say he could beat Foreman of the late 70s and early 80s when George was retired. Larry was nowhere to be found when George was terrorizing the division, and they are the same age. Instead of whining, Larry should count his lucky stars he got to pick off a shot Ali and faded Norton. He had his hands full enough against limited journeymen types like Weaver, Snipes, and Shavers.

This is like the Tyson argument his detractors always make. Facts are when Tyson started blasting through the division, the 4 yr older Holy was fighting journeymen LHs, and going tooth and nail against a little bitty older Qawi while Lewis was fighting 3 rounders in headgear though he was one year older. Had their people though their older fighters were ready for what Mike was knocking off, they would've been in there. They weren't. Mike would have been beating up Ali and the rest too, except that Mike wasn't even old enough for Kindergarten, so he has a credible excuse for not being in that mix.

Same with Foreman. Larry is not in his class and never will be. Sure, Larry is a tough nut and on his day, maybe could outlast Foreman, and maybe that other Spinks, the Great Leon might whup Larry on his day too. That means nothing to justifiy ranking Leon over Larry. 90% of the time Foreman KOs Holmes within 6 and Spinks is KOed within 3 by Larry.

So unless you think Larry should be rated first or second, stop whining about him being underrated. He thinks he's the best heavy in history and beat the two Mikes, so I say leave that sleeping dog alone. He's only going to bite anyone foolish enough to shake him.

I think he is underated and should get more recognition for his achievments than he does. Holmes is in Foreman's class easily and probably would have beat a prime Foreman 7-8 times out of 10. A lot of the other heavies you mentioned like Thomas,Tubbs etc never wanted a piece of Larry and given the opportunity could have cleaned up the division no problem. A lot of people criticize Holmes about the quality of opponents he fought but at least he had the guts to fight up and coming unbeaten heavyweights in many title defenses. It was a no win situation for him. He loses then he's considered an average fighter and if he wins as he always did until being robbed against spinks at the tail end of his career and way past it against Tyson then people like you have a go and say they weren't quality opponents. He can only beat who is put in front of him and who is willing to fights against him. During his reign he defended against not the greatest of opponents granted but 10 of his defenses were against unbeaten fighters. In 9 fight's at the tail end of his 1st career against 8 opponents upto and including Tyson these 8 fighters had 1 defeat between them. IMO he won both fights against Spinks and was robbed especially in the 2nd fight. He should have retired 50-0 and stay retired. No he shouldn't be 1st or 2nd rated them positions belong to Ali and Louis but definately in the top5. In his prime against a prime Tyson he would have beat him IMO and Tyson certainly wouldn't have been knocking Ali and the rest of them from that era out had he fought then like you suggest.

[LondonRingRules]

IMO he won both fights against Spinks

** That tells me all I need to know. What a pitiable fight for Holmes. Spinks completely paralyzed Larry's right hand and tooled Larry with little snapping jabs over the top of Larry's guard and selected shots which left him confused and ******. Spinks timed him perfectly with footwork, speed, and angles, a herky jerky masterclass session of fistic funk. Larry didn't even have a clubfighter's chance.

Yeah, Larry defended against a bunch of unbeaten milk fed babies fresh from the crib.

The old dog is already biting you, making you look foolish. I told you to let him lay. You're compounding the collapse of his title with such weak praise. I'd prefer to remember Larry at his best, not when he was padding out his record and whining about nobody liking him.

[them_apples]

Yea I'd say Holmes gets fair justice, it's more that fighters above him get more justice than deserved, making him seem underrated.

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** That tells me all I need to know. What a pitiable fight for Holmes. Spinks completely paralyzed Larry's right hand and tooled Larry with little snapping jabs over the top of Larry's guard and selected shots which left him confused and ******. Spinks timed him perfectly with footwork, speed, and angles, a herky jerky masterclass session of fistic funk. Larry didn't even have a clubfighter's chance.

Yeah, Larry defended against a bunch of unbeaten milk fed babies fresh from the crib.

The old dog is already biting you, making you look foolish. I told you to let him lay. You're compounding the collapse of his title with such weak praise. I'd prefer to remember Larry at his best, not when he was padding out his record and whining about nobody liking him.

That's your opinion but I ain't gonna be childish about it and slag you off as you have me. There are many people that think Holmes won the Spinks fights especially the 2nd fight. They were close though and Spinks never put on a masterclass as you suggest or many boxing experts wouldn't have said they thought Holmes had won.

If Larry defended against a bunch of unbeaten milk fed babies fresh from the crib then what do you class Tyson's defenses as, Don't tell me World Class All-time Greats I suppose. Tyson's opponents in title defenses were no more impressive than Holmes's.

[them_apples]

both Tyson and Holmes fought tough competition, and both of them get flamed by old timers that they fought bums. *cough* Joe Louis is a good example of that

[LondonRingRules]

Tyson's opponents in title defenses were no more impressive than Holmes's.

** You're on. Waiting on my migas to finish up.

Bonecrusher Smith v Evangelista.....YOU got to be kidding! All the betting action is on the first 3 rds. How long to you figure Alfredo to last?

Pinklon Thomas against Ocasio....Surely you jest. Ocasio with just 13 bouts against a jabbing KO artist. More action with Thomas against a washerwoman.

Tony Tucker against Weaver.....Weaver a tough guy and big punch, but completely outboxed and dropped by 7. Tucker too quick, strong, big, durable and skilled.

Tyrell Biggs vs Earnie Shavers.....again, massive size and speed disadvantage for the Holme's boys. Shavers has his Hail Mary, but lacks Tyson's footwork to catch up to the speedy superheavy gold medalist and undefeated Biggs. TKO for Biggs around the 8th round. This is the closest fight thus far just because of Shavers power could turn things around.

Larry Holmes v Zanon.....Larry was a dried up prune of a fighter by then, but Zanon was always a pit. Larry going to have to go the distance this time around. How ironic!

Tony Tubbs vs Leroy Jones....nice little fatboy shadow box session except that Tubbs is so much faster than Jones it ain't funny. TKO for Tubbs around 8.

MSpinks v LeDoux.........no need to go on with this charade any further. Punchline was the last fight.

Ahhhh, migas and beer, my fav.........

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both Tyson and Holmes fought tough competition, and both of them get flamed by old timers that they fought bums. *cough* Joe Louis is a good example of that

Ali fought and beat the best competition followed by Lewis. I think Holmes fought slightly better competition than Tyson and Tyson fought slightly better than Louis.

[Hawkins]

both Tyson and Holmes fought tough competition, and both of them get flamed by old timers that they fought bums. *cough* Joe Louis is a good example of that

Personally I think it's wrong to judge these guys on the competition they had available. All three of them were dominant and cleaned out the division at the time. You can only fight who is available and fighters get way too much flak for being dominant in so called 'weak' eras.

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** You're on. Waiting on my migas to finish up.

Bonecrusher Smith v Evangelista.....YOU got to be kidding! All the betting action is on the first 3 rds. How long to you figure Alfredo to last?

Pinklon Thomas against Ocasio....Surely you jest. Ocasio with just 13 bouts against a jabbing KO artist. More action with Thomas against a washerwoman.

Tony Tucker against Weaver.....Weaver a tough guy and big punch, but completely outboxed and dropped by 7. Tucker too quick, strong, big, durable and skilled.

Tyrell Biggs vs Earnie Shavers.....again, massive size and speed disadvantage for the Holme's boys. Shavers has his Hail Mary, but lacks Tyson's footwork to catch up to the speedy superheavy gold medalist and undefeated Biggs. TKO for Biggs around the 8th round. This is the closest fight thus far just because of Shavers power could turn things around.

Larry Holmes v Zanon.....Larry was a dried up prune of a fighter by then, but Zanon was always a pit. Larry going to have to go the distance this time around. How ironic!

Tony Tubbs vs Leroy Jones....nice little fatboy shadow box session except that Tubbs is so much faster than Jones it ain't funny. TKO for Tubbs around 8.

MSpinks v LeDoux.........no need to go on with this charade any further. Punchline was the last fight.

Ahhhh, migas and beer, my fav.........

Well Done that don't prove anything.

Earnie Shavers v Michael Spinks.......Spinks scared of Tyson and petrified of Shavers power, Spinks tries running but Shavers catches up with him after 5 rounds and once he lands clean once that's it.

Renaldo Snipes v Carl Williams......No contest as Snipes catches up with Williams and kayos him inside of 7.

Tim Witherspoon v Tyrell Biggs.....A young fit Witherspoon has too much for the overmatched Biggs and the ref rescues him late on with Witherspoon pounding on him and Biggs crying his eyes out.

Muhammed Ali v Bruce Seldon....Even an ageing Ali has too much for Seldon all over in 8.

Ken Norton v Trevor Berbick....In a fight against opponents they won title from Norton outboxes Berbick and wins by a landslide decision.

Gerry Cooney v Tony Tubbs....Tubbs has speed for a couple of rounds until he runs out of stamina and Cooney crushes him in 6.

Bonecrusher Smith v Frank Bruno....Bonecrusher stopped Bruno so that's a definite result.


Need I go on.
Smith,Williams and Berbick were all beaten and softened up by the time Tyson got to them and were not as good when they fought Tyson.

[LondonRingRules]

Need I go on.

** If you got the Holmes runs, you got no choice. Generally most tend to their business in the privacy of their loo though.