Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[JAB5239]

I can definitely see an argument being made for Greb over Wills, but the timing of Greb's victories and how much more convincingly Dempsey performed against their shared competition shows that it wasn't for any fear of Greb that they didn't meet.

I've referred elsewhere to Ray Leonard and Hagler. The same principle applies even more here. As time passes, fighters grow in size and improve in skill.

How about Pryor beating a young Hearns. Would you give Pryor a ty chance against the scalps Tommy would later claim?


Again, this is clearly unfortunate. But it's not the same as Louis dodging Schmeling. Lewis dodging Tyson. Ali returning from exile once Frazier was slowing down. Or Marciano aborting his return because he knew he couldn't handle Ingo.

Pryor beating a young Hearns? They were kids. One continued to grow while the other remained in the same weight class his entire prime.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Yet Wills was rated number one for like five years and Dempsey choose to pick on Grebs leftovers instead. SMH.

That's an interesting point.

But was Wills really better than Gibbons?

The Firpo-Wills fight is really damming of Wills.


Willard did what Wills (and everyone else couldn't) by KO'ing Johnson. Dempsey slaughtered him.

Really Wills' ranking is probably just reflective of hhow bad the Heavyweight division was.

Before that Middleweights were competing for the crown (Mace, Burns, Fitz, Ketchel, etc.)

[JAB5239]

That's an interesting point.

But was Wills really better than Gibbons?

The Firpo-Wills didn't is really damming of Wills.


Willard did what Wills (and everyone else couldn't) by KO'ing Johnson. Dempsey slaughtered him.

Really Wills' ranking is probably just reflective of hhow bad the Heavyweight division was.

Before that Middleweights were competing for the crown (Mace, Burns, Fitz, Ketchel, etc.)

Willard wasn't fighting the same Johnson that Wills did. And there (though I don't really believe it) is still speculation that Johnson threw that fight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Pryor beating a young Hearns? They were kids. One continued to grow while the other remained in the same weight class his entire prime.

How about that.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Willard wasn't fighting the same Johnson that Wills did. And there (though I don't really believe it) is still speculation that Johnson threw that fight.

You mean fighters change over time?


I'd love to hear how Johnson was different. I'd anything, he was better.

Wills was 23 when he was KO'd by a 40 year old Langford.

He was only relevant because he was a titan.

Kinda like the hubub about Ali fighting Chamberlain.

Or why Bugner had a career.

[JAB5239]

You mean fighters change over time?


I'd love to hear how Johnson was different. I'd anything, he was better.

Wills was 23 when he was KO'd by a 40 year old Langford.

He was only relevant because he was a titan.

Kinda like the hubub about Ali fighting Chamberlain.

Or why Bugner had a career.

So you're saying there has been a mass conspiracy and everyone from that era was lying about Wills skills and deserved spot as number one contender for five years? Wow!!

[Rusty Tromboni]

So you're saying there has been a mass conspiracy and everyone from that era was lying about Wills skills and deserved spot as number one contender for five years? Wow!!

Nope. I'm saying it's clear his absence on Dempsey's record does Dempsey no harm.

It's pretty clear you rank him far below fighters who afouled far more egregiously. Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? Why are you giving everyone else a free-pass?

Which makes me wonder if you haven't moved Dempsey up your rankings.

[JAB5239]

Nope. I'm saying it's clear his absence on Dempsey's record does Dempsey no harm.

It's pretty clear you rank him far below fighters who afouled far more egregiously. Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? Why are you giving everyone else a free-pass?

Which makes me wonder if you haven't moved Dempsey up your rankings.

That's like saying Bowe trashing the WBC title to avoid Lewis did him no harm.

[travestyny]

So why if he was so bad didn't Dempsey fight him? The demand was there. The ranking was there. You're running out of excuses.

Not only that, but there was more money on the table for the Wills fight than for the Tunney fight.

But as Willie illustrated, the money wasn't right.

False. He was offered more money to fight Wills than to fight Tunney and he broke the contract to get out of it. Then claimed he would never fight Wills for the championship, but would fight him in a winner take all bout that he knew was illegal and would never come off.

Sound familiar? One of your other idols who famously ducked a Black contender said the EXACT same thing. Hmmm. At least he didn't claim to have given money for the winner take all bout to a 3rd party who admit that it was a fabrication like Dempsey did.


So Wills was good enough to fight for a winner take all bout, but not for the championship? Sounds like a duck to me.

That's exactly the point. He wasn't good enough.

You know what. I don't even have to go there. I can just quote old Jack for you.

Since I won the championship in 1919, I wanted a bout with Wills. I have never drawn the color line. Wills is the only man I wanted.

I guess he forgot about this.

As I have drawn the color line, I am free to say that I think Harry Wills is a great fighter, one who will whip the very best of them.

[QueensburyRules]

So you're saying there has been a mass conspiracy and everyone from that era was lying about Wills skills and deserved spot as number one contender for five years? Wow!!

- -You shaming yourself down to Rusty level now?

Neither of you deal with factual content, rather preferring to draw your plastic cap pistols on each other in grade school High Noon comedy.

First Ring rankings ever done by Tex Rickard here. Wills drops off as Tunney the new champ.

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/T...yweight--1920s

Wills never fought JJOHNSON!

The two of you have grotesquely dragged down what started these many years ago as a higher order objective discussion over the relative merits of heavyweights.

Make a fantastic case for the De-evolution of mankind though!