Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[frankenfrank]

Just wow, really ?, so what fights of Liston have you ever watched, and it's at 201 Joe Louis should be there imo aswell.

Liston beats Tua, Louis, Lyle, Shavers, McCall, Wlad, Tua, Lewis, Tyson relatively easily, do you seriously think Lyle and Shavers really have any chance ?.

**** I'm having a hard time thinking of 3 HW's that can beat Liston and he's not in your top 30 ?.

Think I'm done in this thread for now.

I made a thread about list your (at least) top 30 (preferably more) .
I watched Patterson 1,2 , Ali 1,2 (long ago).
Tua manslaughters liston (aggravated assault in the ring) and might lose a decision in another encounter.
McCall may lose a decision but brutally KOs Liston in another encounter.
Somehow Joe Louis makes my top 15 , I may be wrong and rank him lower.
You idolize Liston and make a super hero out of him which he was far from.

[frankenfrank]

Hi Frankenfrank,

'Shot' can happen to a boxer at any time. The brain is a ridiculously complex organ and its functions can be impaired after one blow, never mind the thousands that a world class heavyweight has to absorb. Age has no bearing, or the result of a fight for that matter. When it happens, it happens.

For what its worth the three fights with Holyfield took more out of Bowe than Evander, despite him winning two of them.

Also have you ever seen the Bruno vs McCall fight? McCall's giant slaying abilities didn't manage to fell Bruno......who lets face it, got stopped in every other title fight. Bruno clearly won, you'd have to bet prime Bowe would do a number on him, not to mention Liston. McCall, was damned near outboxed by a 47 year old Holmes too. The Lennox Lewis right hand was about as good as it got for McCall. He did have an amazing chin though!!!

As for your list of top ten heavies, fair enough.........if its what you truely think and truely feel, its not for me to question:

I'm a Vitali fan myself, I just cant rate him anywhere near as highly.

Foreman over Ali is another interesting choice, given that post prime Ali knocked out prime Foreman.

Also Lewis over Holmes as well as McCall and Tua over Holyfield is a bit er......interesting.

Let me answer it in my at least top 30 thread.

[StarshipTrooper]

My current top 10 heavies (superheavies) :

2. George Foreman
3. Mike Tyson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Larry Holmes
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Oliver McCall
9. David Tua
10. Evander Holyfield

Poster's credibility is now destroyed: One of the finest examples of self-pwnage I've seen :grin9:

Poet

[Vadrigar.]

My current top 10 heavies (superheavies) :
1. Vitali Klitschko
2. George Foreman
3. Mike Tyson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Larry Holmes
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Oliver McCall
9. David Tua
10. Evander Holyfield

found this quite funny among other things on that list...........

[TheMagicMan]

Ok here is my top 10.
I am not basing this solely on talent or accomplishments. I will make my case for each fighter, but it shouldnt be looked at as a "who would beat who" ranking.

1) Muhammad Ali. Possessed hand and foot speed unseen before or since. Was undefeated before the three year layoff and had beaten every man he had faced prior to 80's comeback where the effects of Parkinsons were already showing. He beat Sonny Liston and George Foreman when both were considered nearly invincible. He had his prime years robbed from him and despite losing a considerable amount of skill, he found a way to emerge as the best fighter of a very deep 1970's era. Could absorb amazing amounts of punishment and change up styles to win. Deserves recognition for his refusal to be inducted becoming a central figure in a cultural revolution of the late 60's, that ultimately resulted in him being looked upon as a hero when he he had been vilified before.

2) Joe Louis. Undisputed heavyweight champion for 11 years and had the most consecutive title defenses. Only 1 loss prior to first retirement which was avenged. Defeated 6 Heavyweight champs during his career. Devastating puncher for his era, but a smart one in that he would set traps for his opponents. Could throw powerful and effective combinations. First black heavyweight champ since Jack Johnson and his era ended their exclusion, he also became a black American hero with his defeat of Schmeling. Drawbacks were a lack of quality opposition during his reign, the champs that he beat are not highly thought of. The Billy Conn fight showed that he could be vulnerable to a good boxer.

3) Larry Holmes. Reigned for 8 years and ran his record to 48-0, with the most consecutive title defenses outside of Louis. Like Ali he had great hand and foot speed. Two losses before first retirement were controversial. Showed an ability to get up from tremendous shots, not many would have survived the punches Shavers landed on him. Unappreciated to a degree because he was between Ali and Tyson. Didnt have the best opposition, and he could get lazy in fights getting caught with punches he shouldnt have. Great skill and title reign though put him up on the list.

4) Jack Johnson. Broke the color barrier and was miles ahead of his competition for the day. Was champion for 7 years. Defeated the best of the black heavyweights and reigned as the Colored champ for 5 years before winning the recognized world title. Unjustly prosecuted because of his accomplishments and his brazen attitude.

5) Rocky Marciano. 49-0 says it all. No other heavyweight champ has left unbeaten. Not a good boxer but a tremendous puncher with great stamina. Stepped up his game under adversity, probably the best trait you can have. Its hard to say how he would do against more modern boxers with his small size. However that special 49-0 along with intangibles that he showed give him this rank.

6) Mike Tyson. A shooting star, he gets this rank because of his devastating skill during his brief reign. Unbelievable hand speed and power, and he used it effectively when trained by Rooney. Youngest champ ever and probably the most devastating. Technique and dedication slipped as he pushed those who cared for him away and was eaten alive by mental demons. Four years in prison took away what was left of those special skills.

7) Lennox Lewis. Not a huge fan, but he did defeat everyone he faced, was a 3 time champion. Huge size causes matchup problems for virtually everyone. Didnt face the other great fighters of his era until they were well past it. He did avenge his losses but they still came to fighters well below his skill level, something the others on this list did not do. Could be troubled a good jab.

8) George Foreman 2 time champion twenty years apart. Maybe the hardest puncher in heavyweight history was overwhelming to most that he faced. However he had sloppy technique in his first career and a weak psyche. He did not have these problems the second time around but without the same skill.

9) Joe Frazier. Great left hook, this guy just kept coming at you no matter what. Relentless swarmer who could pound you into submission even after taking numerous shots. This is his main flaw, big time punchers could pose a problem. Amazing heart shown the Ali and Foreman fights. Fought in a great period of boxing. Was never really the same after the first fight with Ali.

10) Jack Dempsey. Gets on the list for popularizing boxing during his time. Had the same effect that Ruth had on baseball. Tremendous puncher, but again hard to compare to modern fighters like Johnson and Marciano. Avoided the black fighters and was outboxed by Tunney, though he was past his prime.

Just missed the list
Sonny Liston, Evander Holyfield.

Terrible list. Delete your name please. Put any of those guys but Lewis in the ring with Vitali and they dont leave the ring alive. Ali, Ali was undefeated before the 3 year layoff because he fought bums and rigged fights. You really count Sonny Liston 2 as a win for Ali? Ok....Ali barely tapped Liston and hes out for a 10 count...ok....Also Sonny Liston 1 was even on the cards before Liston pulled out. Also Ali benefitted from the fact that Frazier and Norton gave him rematches. Something Lewis didnt do for Vitali, even though Vitali had 12 days notice before the fight. Oh and something Ali wouldnt do for Foreman.

Any list without Wlad and Vitali on it is pure trash. Vitalis never been down, that prime Ali got knocked down by Light heavies. And as for Marciano? You on drugs?

[frankenfrank]

found this quite funny among other things on that list...........

The most ******ed (clinical mild ******ation) troll on this board criticizes my list without even being able to compile a 10 fighters list of his own
as shown below :

1. Muhammad ALi
2. Joe Louis
3...(pending)
4...(pending)
5...(pending)
6...(pending)
7...(pending)
8...(pending)
9...(pending)
10...(pending)

for actual reply about Foreman over Ali read my replies in my top 30 and above all time SHW thread :
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=402196

[Vadrigar.]

The most ******ed (clinical mild ******ation) troll on this board criticizes my list without even being able to compile a 10 fighters list of his own
as shown below :



for actual reply about Foreman over Ali read my replies in my top 30 and above all time SHW thread :
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=402196

Yes I already read that. Nothing special.

Your list is still nonsensical.

[StarshipTrooper]

Terrible list. Delete your name please. Put any of those guys but Lewis in the ring with Vitali and they dont leave the ring alive. Ali, Ali was undefeated before the 3 year layoff because he fought bums and rigged fights. You really count Sonny Liston 2 as a win for Ali? Ok....Ali barely tapped Liston and hes out for a 10 count...ok....Also Sonny Liston 1 was even on the cards before Liston pulled out. Also Ali benefitted from the fact that Frazier and Norton gave him rematches. Something Lewis didnt do for Vitali, even though Vitali had 12 days notice before the fight. Oh and something Ali wouldnt do for Foreman.

Any list without Wlad and Vitali on it is pure trash. Vitalis never been down, that prime Ali got knocked down by Light heavies. And as for Marciano? You on drugs?

Remove the Steel Hammer from your mouth and cease Iron Fisting and please reenter reality. Seriously, this sort of abject nuthugging belongs in NSB with the other ******ed fan bois and NOT in the adult section of the forum.

Poet

[DarkTerror88]

NASA style

10) James Jeffries- Was undefeated until he came out of retirement, Lost a LOT of weight, and suffered his only defeat at the loss of Jack Johnson. He was a very large man with a good jab and right hand. He was slightly lacking in the speed area though.

9) Larry Holmes- Holmes, in my opinion, is VERY underrated because he followed one of the greatest champions of all time. He had a excellent jab as well. The best Pure jab out of heavyweights. I think that The speed of Ali's Jab and the set up ability of Joe Louis' jab were more useful, if Holmes stuck behind that jab and didn't through that right uppercut, he would of outpointed Tyson. I have him at nine because he just missed the best competition in the prime aside from Kenny Norton.

8) Rocky Marciano- 49-0 says it all. I say that people complaining about his lack of competition could make the same noise for Tyson. Unlike Tyson, Marciano fought Jersey Joe Walcott, an incredible fighter himself, and the steel chinned Ezzard Charles, two underrated heavyweights, for the same reason as Holmes. Both of these men would do well in any era, but Marciano heart. chin and strength led him to victories in his most hard fought battles. The greatest conditioned fighter of all time without a doubt. Anyone who runs 5 miles every day of the year, 10-15 when training, and hits a 300lb heavy bag, is obsessed with fitness. And his obsession served him well.

7) Charles "Sonny" Liston- Another underrated fighter who had many great weapons. In his prime, Liston was able to take incredibly strong punched without blinking, not be backed up and hit like a sledgehammer. To compliment his dynamite hooks and uppercuts, he had a jackhammer jab and would be able to beat most of the heavyweights in history without much trouble.

6) Jack Dempsey- A fearsome man in the ring, Dempsey would try to tear your head off at the opening bell, he had one of the greatest left hooks in history and could pummel you for a few rounds without having to stop, except for the bell of course. Anyone who discredits Dempsey's power, look to his first fight with Jess Willard, i hurt watching it. With ample speed and a good chin, Dempsey could also hold his own in any era.

5) Joe Frazier- Some people might wonder how i rank Smokin' Joe so high. Many say his credibility is lost due to his fights with George Foreman, but let me point out some things about his fights with Foreman. He was never Knocked out, the ref stopped the fight. Big George himself said "You can't Knockout Joe Frazier, he'd die before he let you knock him out." Joe also was past his prime when he fought George Foreman, his peak ending after the 1971 fight with Muhammad Ali. His only other Knockdowns were to Oscar Bonavena en route their first bout, when Frazier was only an 11 fight Novice, where as Bonavena was a veteran. Smokin' Joe had a good chin, not granite, but still very strong. He had arguably the most lethal left hook in history, especially when used as a roll and hook under a right hand. The only fighter with better stamina is Marciano. Joe Frazier had a hell of a heart, and without a doubt, the most perfect Pressure fighter, building up in tension after the third round, the pressure would just increase. A slightly underrated fighter.

4) George Foreman- The strongest Puncher in history. Although Earnie Shavers might have been more powerful punch for punch, he wasn't able to wail on people like Big George. His loss to Ali, spiraling him into to depression, he became inactive for a long time. In the late 80s is comeback at 40 proved he was still a great and powerful fighter, with Holyfield saying "he [George] hit harder than Tyson." Winning the Championship twice, and being a great cook, George Foreman easily is number four.

3) Jack Johnson- The first Black Heavyweight champion and a defensive master. He was years ahead of his times in fitness, and possessed great power. Due to his Defensive abilities only great puure boxer's would be able to trouble him.

2) Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali- The greatest is at number two. With blazing fast hand speed and faster legs, Ali is able to out decision most of the fighters in boxing because they would not be able to catch him. In his prime, he could throw a punch out of range, and his legs would carry him close enough to land the jab well, and out of range again before retaliation. An incredible fighter with the only loss closest to his prime was from Smokin' Joe Frazier.

drum roll please!


1) Joe Louis- The Brown Bomber, Not only was the champion for the longest time, most defenses and fought the best of his era, but he was an American Hero from his fight with Max Schmeling II. He was a boxer/puncher/counterpuncher and had all the right tools. He had a very accurate jab that set up his monstrous right hand. He had a good left hook and right uppercut, and was a good body puncher as well. He could sit patiently and counterpunch, waiting for opening to deliver the KO blow, or he could start fast and go for the KO from the opening Bell a la Jack Dempsey, as evident in Schmeling two. I think that in a three bout fight, the only ones that could win over Joe in this list are Muhammad Ali. In a three bout series, Joe's patient counter punching would cost hi ma decision over the fleet footed Clay, but he would start faster in the other two and outwork Ali en route to a decision.

Honorable mention- Kenny Norton, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott
Phew! Tell me what you guys think of my list, I will respect your opinions but i also expect you to respect mine.

[Vadrigar.]

NASA style

10) James Jeffries- Was undefeated until he came out of retirement, Lost a LOT of weight, and suffered his only defeat at the loss of Jack Johnson. He was a very large man with a good jab and right hand. He was slightly lacking in the speed area though.

9) Larry Holmes- Holmes, in my opinion, is VERY underrated because he followed one of the greatest champions of all time. He had a excellent jab as well. The best Pure jab out of heavyweights. I think that The speed of Ali's Jab and the set up ability of Joe Louis' jab were more useful, if Holmes stuck behind that jab and didn't through that right uppercut, he would of outpointed Tyson. I have him at nine because he just missed the best competition in the prime aside from Kenny Norton.

8) Rocky Marciano- 49-0 says it all. I say that people complaining about his lack of competition could make the same noise for Tyson. Unlike Tyson, Marciano fought Jersey Joe Walcott, an incredible fighter himself, and the steel chinned Ezzard Charles, two underrated heavyweights, for the same reason as Holmes. Both of these men would do well in any era, but Marciano heart. chin and strength led him to victories in his most hard fought battles. The greatest conditioned fighter of all time without a doubt. Anyone who runs 5 miles every day of the year, 10-15 when training, and hits a 300lb heavy bag, is obsessed with fitness. And his obsession served him well.

7) Charles "Sonny" Liston- Another underrated fighter who had many great weapons. In his prime, Liston was able to take incredibly strong punched without blinking, not be backed up and hit like a sledgehammer. To compliment his dynamite hooks and uppercuts, he had a jackhammer jab and would be able to beat most of the heavyweights in history without much trouble.

6) Jack Dempsey- A fearsome man in the ring, Dempsey would try to tear your head off at the opening bell, he had one of the greatest left hooks in history and could pummel you for a few rounds without having to stop, except for the bell of course. Anyone who discredits Dempsey's power, look to his first fight with Jess Willard, i hurt watching it. With ample speed and a good chin, Dempsey could also hold his own in any era.

5) Joe Frazier- Some people might wonder how i rank Smokin' Joe so high. Many say his credibility is lost due to his fights with George Foreman, but let me point out some things about his fights with Foreman. He was never Knocked out, the ref stopped the fight. Big George himself said "You can't Knockout Joe Frazier, he'd die before he let you knock him out." Joe also was past his prime when he fought George Foreman, his peak ending after the 1971 fight with Muhammad Ali. His only other Knockdowns were to Oscar Bonavena en route their first bout, when Frazier was only an 11 fight Novice, where as Bonavena was a veteran. Smokin' Joe had a good chin, not granite, but still very strong. He had arguably the most lethal left hook in history, especially when used as a roll and hook under a right hand. The only fighter with better stamina is Marciano. Joe Frazier had a hell of a heart, and without a doubt, the most perfect Pressure fighter, building up in tension after the third round, the pressure would just increase. A slightly underrated fighter.

4) George Foreman- The strongest Puncher in history. Although Earnie Shavers might have been more powerful punch for punch, he wasn't able to wail on people like Big George. His loss to Ali, spiraling him into to depression, he became inactive for a long time. In the late 80s is comeback at 40 proved he was still a great and powerful fighter, with Holyfield saying "he [George] hit harder than Tyson." Winning the Championship twice, and being a great cook, George Foreman easily is number four.

3) Jack Johnson- The first Black Heavyweight champion and a defensive master. He was years ahead of his times in fitness, and possessed great power. Due to his Defensive abilities only great puure boxer's would be able to trouble him.

2) Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali- The greatest is at number two. With blazing fast hand speed and faster legs, Ali is able to out decision most of the fighters in boxing because they would not be able to catch him. In his prime, he could throw a punch out of range, and his legs would carry him close enough to land the jab well, and out of range again before retaliation. An incredible fighter with the only loss closest to his prime was from Smokin' Joe Frazier.

drum roll please!


1) Joe Louis- The Brown Bomber, Not only was the champion for the longest time, most defenses and fought the best of his era, but he was an American Hero from his fight with Max Schmeling II. He was a boxer/puncher/counterpuncher and had all the right tools. He had a very accurate jab that set up his monstrous right hand. He had a good left hook and right uppercut, and was a good body puncher as well. He could sit patiently and counterpunch, waiting for opening to deliver the KO blow, or he could start fast and go for the KO from the opening Bell a la Jack Dempsey, as evident in Schmeling two. I think that in a three bout fight, the only ones that could win over Joe in this list are Muhammad Ali. In a three bout series, Joe's patient counter punching would cost hi ma decision over the fleet footed Clay, but he would start faster in the other two and outwork Ali en route to a decision.

Honorable mention- Kenny Norton, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott
Phew! Tell me what you guys think of my list, I will respect your opinions but i also expect you to respect mine.

A very inserting and unique list. I've seen many lists but never one like this. Nice creativity there. How long have you been watching boxing?