Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[frankenfrank]

In this case my list is definitely a prime for prime one while most others' is a legend list based on popularity.
Why Ibeabuchi doesn't make my all time top 10 despite of it ?
Well , he is not proven enough. The fight against Tua (which should have been ruled a draw) took a lot out of him and who knows the outcomes of his past it performances of his ? I also read that Ibeabuchi had problems against long range boxers and that his stablemate Kirk Johnson was continually knocking him down in sparing matches. Maybe I even heard (also) in the commentary of either Tua-Ibeabuchi , or Tua-Byrd. So who knows what would have been next for him
if his career continued in the regular route.
Regarding Bowe , he struggled against some older fighter (won't bother to check his record for it) , fouled against Mathis Jr. , was down against Holyfield , was stopped by Lewis in the amateurs with thicker gloves and headgear , was stopped by others as well in the amateurs (Adolpho Washington included) ,
who knows how his fights with Golotta may have ended , but anyway Lewis and a supposedly shot Tyson outdid him against Golotta , while he definitely outdid both of them against Holyfield .
So Bowe makes my top 15 HW but not my top 10.

[NChristo]

Regarding Bowe , he struggled against some older fighter (won't bother to check his record for it) , fouled against Mathis Jr. , was down against Holyfield , was stopped by Lewis in the amateurs with thicker gloves and headgear , was stopped by others as well in the amateurs (Adolpho Washington included) ,
who knows how his fights with Golotta may have ended , but anyway Lewis and a supposedly shot Tyson outdid him against Golotta , while he definitely outdid both of them against Holyfield .
So Bowe makes my top 15 HW but not my top 10.

Watch more Bowe and at least watch the fights at the Olympics if you really think Bowe was stopped by Lewis -.-, he got ****ed over big time by the ref for the whole fight and it shouldn't be a stoppage.

Lewis and a supposedly shot Tyson out did him against Golotta because Bowe was shot himself, he wasn't the fighter he was is 91//92.

If your top 10 is prime for prime Bowe should easily be in the top 10, especially if you have Tua and McCall there.

Was easily the most skilled "big man" ever.

[Sugarj]

Hi Again, How does your own heavyweight top ten list look Frankenfrank?


Yes fair point on Ibeabuchi, not proven enough would certainly fit. As for rangy boxers giving him problems, possibly........I cant say I saw evidence for this, but many of his earlier fights are hard to find. Johnson may well have done well in sparring, its not a tale I've heard.

As for Riddick Bowe, the old man you refer to was Tony Tubbs. It was a close fight but Bowe did deserve the nod.

Bowe was clearly in no shape for Gotota first time round, overweight and judging by his accuracy, undersparred. The punches he took clearly took their toll as his once great chin seemed weak in fight two......and his slurred speach afterwards confirms this.

Prime Bowe does a Lennox on Golota. As for the Lewis stoppage in the amateurs, watch a video of it. It may not be quite what you think!

[frankenfrank]

My current top 10 heavies (superheavies) :
1. Vitali Klitschko
2. George Foreman
3. Mike Tyson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Larry Holmes
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Oliver McCall
9. David Tua
10. Evander Holyfield

[NChristo]

My current top 10 heavies (superheavies) :
1. Vitali Klitschko
2. George Foreman
3. Mike Tyson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Larry Holmes
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Oliver McCall
9. David Tua
10. Evander Holyfield

Meh ish list for H2H match ups, Sonny Liston and Riddick Bowe need to be on there (and any other H2H HW list), only people I would be certain to beat them would be Larry Holmes and Ali and even then I think they would have their hands full.
Liston probably just comes under for SHW though, I'm guessing you have it at 225lbs + ?.

[frankenfrank]

Watch more Bowe and at least watch the fights at the Olympics if you really think Bowe was stopped by Lewis -.-, he got ****ed over big time by the ref for the whole fight and it shouldn't be a stoppage.

Lewis and a supposedly shot Tyson out did him against Golotta because Bowe was shot himself, he wasn't the fighter he was is 91//92.

If your top 10 is prime for prime Bowe should easily be in the top 10, especially if you have Tua and McCall there.

Was easily the most skilled "big man" ever.

Hi Again, How does your own heavyweight top ten list look Frankenfrank?


Yes fair point on Ibeabuchi, not proven enough would certainly fit. As for rangy boxers giving him problems, possibly........I cant say I saw evidence for this, but many of his earlier fights are hard to find. Johnson may well have done well in sparring, its not a tale I've heard.

As for Riddick Bowe, the old man you refer to was Tony Tubbs. It was a close fight but Bowe did deserve the nod.

Bowe was clearly in no shape for Gotota first time round, overweight and judging by his accuracy, undersparred. The punches he took clearly took their toll as his once great chin seemed weak in fight two......and his slurred speach afterwards confirms this.

Prime Bowe does a Lennox on Golota. As for the Lewis stoppage in the amateurs, watch a video of it. It may not be quite what you think!

I watched his loss to Lewis , not one of the most justified stoppage ever , but not a total **** as well. After all TKOs and RSCOs are meant to prevent further unnecessary damage . Lewis may have just beaten him more and worse had the fight been allowed to continue. but then again , i will not argue too much about it. I watched the fight at least 2 times before I even started posting in this forum. Bowe was 1 year older than Golotta , not a great excuse of being shot , and Golotta had a previous amateur record himself , and Bowe came off a stoppage win over an Holyfield whom went on to stop Tyson and Moorer and to last Lewis twice after that , so both of them weren't shot at the time of their third fight. Bowe actually did best in their third fight.
Bowe may have beaten Tua by decision , but McCall could take his punches , and I am not sure how good Bowe could have taken McCall's right hand.
McCall is a good giant slaughter with his stoppages over Lewis and Akiwande (two rangy clinchers) and a knockdown including decision win over a much bigger and 7 years younger than himself Lance Whitaker .

[NChristo]

I watched his loss to Lewis , not one of the most justified stoppage ever , but not a total **** as well. After all TKOs and RSCOs are meant to prevent further unnecessary damage . Lewis may have just beaten him more and worse had the fight been allowed to continue. but then again , i will not argue too much about it. I watched the fight at least 2 times before I even started posting in this forum. Bowe was 1 year older than Golotta , not a great excuse of being shot , and Golotta had a previous amateur record himself , and Bowe came off a stoppage win over an Holyfield whom went on to stop Tyson and Moorer and to last Lewis twice after that , so both of them weren't shot at the time of their third fight. Bowe actually did best in their third fight.
Bowe may have beaten Tua by decision , but McCall could take his punches , and I am not sure how good Bowe could have taken McCall's right hand.
McCall is a good giant slaughter with his stoppages over Lewis and Akiwande (two rangy clinchers) and a knockdown including decision win over a much bigger and 7 years younger than himself Lance Whitaker .

Age doesn't effect how shot you are, he was out of shape, somewhat punch drunk and was just not what he used to be in any way at all, Bowe did best in the first fight with Holyfield and he wasn't even in shape for the 3rd, Holyfield was having heart problems and suffering from symptoms of hepatitus and still gave Bowe troubles in the 3rd fight, shows how much he changed in 3 years from their first fight. After 92 /early 93 Bowe started going down hill fast, don't see how anyone could argue otherwise, imo Bowe could easily take McCall's right he had a great chin and Bowe is not a "rangy clincher" he fights well from all ranges, extremely well on the inside.
A better question would be if McCall could survive Bowes uppercut.

As for the Olympics Bowe rocked Lewis more in round 1 then the supposed KO punches that Lewis gave him and Bowe was clearly ready to continue, and what was with the 8 or something random warnings.

[frankenfrank]

Meh ish list for H2H match ups, Sonny Liston and Riddick Bowe need to be on there (and any other H2H HW list), only people I would be certain to beat them would be Larry Holmes and Ali and even then I think they would have their hands full.
Liston probably just comes under for SHW though, I'm guessing you have it at 225lbs + ?.

Sonny Liston ? no. for what , for being unable to stop Eddie Machen ? not to mention his losses .
Vitali would have systematically abused him en route to a stoppage , Tua would have preyed him , I can even easily see Lyle and Shavers stopping him , maybe even Joe Luis. And Foreman can be respectful as he wants , but you have to not take him too seriously as he stated Evander Holyfield is the number 2 in his book (after Ali probably). Foreman would have demolished Liston.
Wlad would have probably stopped him in 4 out of 6 fights , decisioned him in 1 out of 6 and KO'd himself in 1 out of 6.

And actually I have it at 201+ currently . Liston simply doesn't make my top 30. Maybe he will crack it some day , but not my top 20.

[NChristo]

Sonny Liston ? no. for what , for being unable to stop Eddie Machen ? not to mention his losses .
Vitali would have systematically abused him en route to a stoppage , Tua would have preyed him , I can even easily see Lyle and Shavers stopping him , maybe even Joe Luis. And Foreman can be respectful as he wants , but you have to not take him too seriously as he stated Evander Holyfield is the number 2 in his book (after Ali probably). Foreman would have demolished Liston.
Wlad would have probably stopped him in 4 out of 6 fights , decisioned him in 1 out of 6 and KO'd himself in 1 out of 6.

And actually I have it at 201+ currently . Liston simply doesn't make my top 30. Maybe he will crack it some day , but not my top 20.

Just wow, really ?, so what fights of Liston have you ever watched, and it's at 201 Joe Louis should be there imo aswell.

Liston beats Tua, Louis, Lyle, Shavers, McCall, Wlad, Tua, Lewis, Tyson relatively easily, do you seriously think Lyle and Shavers really have any chance ?.

**** I'm having a hard time thinking of 3 HW's that can beat Liston and he's not in your top 30 ?.

Think I'm done in this thread for now.

[Sugarj]

Hi Frankenfrank,

'Shot' can happen to a boxer at any time. The brain is a ridiculously complex organ and its functions can be impaired after one blow, never mind the thousands that a world class heavyweight has to absorb. Age has no bearing, or the result of a fight for that matter. When it happens, it happens.

For what its worth the three fights with Holyfield took more out of Bowe than Evander, despite him winning two of them.

Also have you ever seen the Bruno vs McCall fight? McCall's giant slaying abilities didn't manage to fell Bruno......who lets face it, got stopped in every other title fight. Bruno clearly won, you'd have to bet prime Bowe would do a number on him, not to mention Liston. McCall, was damned near outboxed by a 47 year old Holmes too. The Lennox Lewis right hand was about as good as it got for McCall. He did have an amazing chin though!!!

As for your list of top ten heavies, fair enough.........if its what you truely think and truely feel, its not for me to question:

I'm a Vitali fan myself, I just cant rate him anywhere near as highly.

Foreman over Ali is another interesting choice, given that post prime Ali knocked out prime Foreman.

Also Lewis over Holmes as well as McCall and Tua over Holyfield is a bit er......interesting.