List your top 30 (super) heavyweights (201+ unlimited weight) of all time

[frankenfrank]

Try to make it based on H2H , not legacy , cultural influence , not popularity , not the quality of act in Sylvester Stalone movies , not on manners nor on PPV and ticket sales. Just the ones whom may have prevailed in actual H2H confrontations in the ring. Size matters , weight classes were invented for a reason.
Everyone can be a smartass and to criticize someone else's list.
Don't do it before you have a top 30 , preferably even more of your own which is a testimony to some alternative of your own before you discredit a list you don't really have a clue of how to improve.

Here is mine :

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. George Foreman
3. Mike Tyson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Larry Holmes
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Oliver McCall
9. David Tua
10. Evander Holyfield

11. Ikemefula Ibeabuchi
12. Rid**** Bowe
13. Tony Tucker
14. James Douglas
15. Joe Louis
16. Joe Frazier
17. Chris Byrd
18. Sultanakhmed Ibragimov
19. Nikolay Valuev
20. Sam Peter

21. Ross Puritty
22. Jameel McCline
23. Lamon Brewster
24. Dominick Guinn
25. James Smith
26. Ray Austin
27. Lance Whitaker
28. Joe Mesi
29. Michael Grant
30. James Toney

31. Donovan Ruddock
32. Frank Bruno
33. Tim Witherspoon
34. Gerrie Cooney
35. Orlin Norris
36. Greg Page
37. George Chuvalo
38. Oscar Bonavena
39. Ron Lyle
40. Jimmy Young


41. Jerry Quarry
42. Earnie Shavers
43. Ken Norton
44. Charles Liston
45. Sam Langford
46. Joe Jeannette
47. Harry Wills
48. Rocky Marciano
49. Jack Johnson
50. Jack Dempsey

51. Max Baer
52. Max Schmelling
53. Chris Arreola
54. Michael Spinks
55. Michael Moorer
56. Oleg Maskaev
57. Hassim Rahman
58. Corrie Sanders
59. John Ruiz
60. Kirk Johnson

61. Corey Sanders
62. Martin Rogan
63. Matt Skelton
64. Danny Williams
65. Jesse Fergusson
66. Ray Mercer
67. Alexander Povetkin
68. Eric Esch
69. Brian Nielsen
70. Audley Harisson


71. Mike Hunter
72. ****y Ryann
73. Michael Sprott
74. Jimmy Ellis
75. Floyd Patterson
76. Bert Cooper
77. Buster Mathis Jr.
78. Marvis Frazier



I claim this list is not perfect.
There may be changes in it.
But it is about how it is.

[frankenfrank]

I had to put the suspected LOL posters on temporary ignore just to keep the first page or 2 troll clear. I will let them back to post LOLs after there will be some serious discussion here.
After the first pages will be serious , they will be let back to post their LOLS , **** list , ******ed troll , etc .

[NChristo]

I made a thread about list your (at least) top 30 (preferably more) .
I watched Patterson 1,2 , Ali 1,2 (long ago).
Tua manslaughters liston (aggravated assault in the ring) and might lose a decision in another encounter.
McCall may lose a decision but brutally KOs Liston in another encounter.
Somehow Joe Louis makes my top 15 , I may be wrong and rank him lower.
You idolize Liston and make a super hero out of him which he was far from.

Nice one, so you watch 2 fights where Liston wipes out Patterson and 2 where 1 was most probably fixed and the other Liston quit and you come to the conclusion that Tua man slaughters Liston ?, and just lol at McCall.

You seem to make a super hero out of Tua and McCall, don't really see why to be honest, because McCall pole axed Lewis once ? and because Tua ?, he only has a good left hook and decent chin, not much else too him.

Liston has the best HW jab ever, huge reach, great power, great chin, could box and brawl.
You've watched 4 of his fights and seem to think of him as a bum ?, you ranked Harry Wills at 44 despite there being 0 footage of a full fight of his and you're list is supposedly on H2H ranking, same with Joe Jeanette and Fred Fulton there is next to no footage of them. Unless of course you're going of the sparring footage of Jeanette where he is 60 something.

To have Liston lower then 30 in any HW list is just ludicrous.

Posted in this thread instead of the other, it seemed more suitable.

And I have only just seen it, you have Valuev at 18.
Frank after #15 it just looks like you put everyone in random order.


Props to making a list though I suppose.

[frankenfrank]

Hi Frankenfrank,

'Shot' can happen to a boxer at any time. The brain is a ridiculously complex organ and its functions can be impaired after one blow, never mind the thousands that a world class heavyweight has to absorb. Age has no bearing, or the result of a fight for that matter. When it happens, it happens.

(1) now reexamine your rating of Joe Mesi.
(2) brain damage is (also) a function of defensive technique among other factors. sometimes the fighter himself is also to blame for it for the way he fought.
(3) and yes , there are other physical parameters that effect it such as genetics , nutrition , training , and many others. but some of them are also choices made by the fighter himself.
(4) Not that in Mesi's case it was his fault , Jirov ended his career with those rabbit punches.

For what its worth the three fights with Holyfield took more out of Bowe than Evander, despite him winning two of them.

I disagree.

Also have you ever seen the Bruno vs McCall fight?

yes

McCall's giant slaying abilities didn't manage to fell Bruno......

whom was not a giant. they also did not help him against Orlin Norris for that matter. another disgustingly underrated fighter for that matter.

who lets face it, got stopped in every other title fight. Bruno clearly won,

Bruno was a monster hitter , a physical phenomenon whom could both outreach and outmuscle McCall , a rare thing.
Tyson had to use elbows against him. Yes , I watched both of his fights against Tyson also.

you'd have to bet prime Bowe would do a number on him,

He may win a decision in about 2 out of 3 times , but get stopped (himself) in 1 out of 3. McCall has got better punch resistance and better punching power than Holyfield whom managed to knock down Bowe and lasted the distance him in 2 out of 3 encounters.

not to mention Liston.

Liston's expected (by me) performance against McCall are similar to Bowe's but inferior (if I predicted something like 66% decisions for Bowe and the rest stoppage wins for McCall then expect something like 60% decisions for Liston against McCall and 40% brutal KO's of McCall over Liston)

McCall, was damned near outboxed by a 47 year old Holmes too.

.. but outboxed Holmes to retain his title.

The Lennox Lewis right hand was about as good as it got for McCall. He did have an amazing chin though!!!

And amazing punching power also which you (plural) also underrate .

As for your list of top ten heavies, fair enough.........if its what you truely think and truely feel, its not for me to question:

you can question I can answer.

I'm a Vitali fan myself, I just cant rate him anywhere near as highly.

not sure I am a fan , just being realistic

Foreman over Ali is another interesting choice, given that post prime Ali knocked out prime Foreman.

Because Dundee fetched loose ropes for their ring and Ali took full advantage of it. See my thread about it.

Also Lewis over Holmes as well as McCall and Tua over Holyfield is a bit er......interesting.

Lewis and Holmes are somewhat close. I will not argue about it. I might be wrong about it.
Same for McCall and Tua.
I appreciate stoppage wins (which don't come due to cuts and lower body and to lesser extent shoulder injuries) more than decisions which include knockdowns , which , in turn I appreciate much more than just decision wins when the winner was the one whom visited the floor ..
And I tend to discredit fighters due to such legit (for me ) stoppage losses than I do due to decision losses.
And I do care about excuses (reasons).

[frankenfrank]

Haven't made a list yet, will get to work on one in a lil bit.

Just wondering though, I noticed you put Harry Wills up, have you seen any full fights of his ?, I've only ever seen small clips and training footage.

When there are no videos , you have to count on the records.
I also could not get Douglas-McCall , Puritty-Wlad , Vitali-Puritty , Rahman-Sanders , Rahman-Puritty , Wlad-Rahman , Norris-McCall , Norris-Tucker
2 , Tucker-McCall and McCall's , Douglas' , Puritty's , Smith's and Ruddocks' early losses. many more fights that I miss from the color video era.
So you want me to erase the pre video fighters from history ? not my goal.

[Sam Donald]

what do u want us to do? lol

i dont understand how u want me to rank it

[Schmerzen]

1.Yokozuna
2.Butterbean
..

[Vadrigar.]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=402209

[frankenfrank]

what do u want us to do? lol

i dont understand how u want me to rank it

post your at least 30.
rank it according to how do you think they could do H2H.
a H2H list.
I hope you know what Head To Head is.

[frankenfrank]

So now they are let back.
See if they can revolutionize my list.
And There may be changes to be done in my list , but not major ones.
Actually , suppose Quarry and Fergusson had switched eras , I don't think the difference will be great.
While Fergusson may not have stopped Shavers and Mac Foster , he may have lasted longer against Ali and Norton and probably even against Frazier.
And I doubt if Quarry would have done better against Tyson , Mercer , McCall and Douglas. Against McCall and Douglas he has a chance of doing about the same against Mercer .
Douglas really never gets respect for his achievements nor does Ross Puritty.
In a list large enough ,they could finally get their dues and see how their real worth is compared to the world beaters which I don't claim they are .