Ray Leonard overrated

[QueensburyRules]

Really? Greb was giving interviews trying to get Dempsey in the ring. And Leonard wasn't fighting Pryor's leftovers like Dempsey was Greb's. Man, you double standards and hypocrisy are amazing!!

- -Jack a former hobo fought whom Tex and Doc lined up.

That's why he left both to make the Wills fight.

U denser than lead.

[TonyGe]

peak hagler vs peak leonard?
wouldnt happen man,middle vs welter here
leonard beat hagler
he did it how h was suppose to
land more shots and avoid more shots

now i agree tommy was better
but yea his chin was tested too much,and he couldnt pass all the tests
but tommy is the best boxer wit a combination of power,speed and skill
but still
leonard is a ferocious puncher
i think he's actually underrated for that

leonards way better
only reason he lossed the 1st fight is becuz of his ****iness
he was undefeated at the time n was too confident n ****y
he said he'd fight Duran at his own game,flatfooted
didnt work
but later that year he fought like sugar ray leonard...hisself
and made duran quit
now dont gimme no arguements bout prime,cuz both they 1st fights was in 80'
no excuses
leonard made a mistak at 1st

And Duran made a mistake in his prep for the second fight.

[QueensburyRules]

Pryor whooped a 17 year old Hearns that didn't pack a punch till he was an adult, plus that fight was at 132 LBS. Hearns was not only a crude teen at that time but he was no where near as polished as he was in the pros. He gave up his height constantly and didn't punch nearly as hard as the "hitman" version, which makes all the difference. When a pressure fighter doesn't see his opponent as a power threat, he can bum rush him at any moment because of the lack of danger. I doubt that happens vs the Cuevas version of Hearns for example, that was a one punch KO artist.

Also, Pryor beat Cervantes but while he was still formidable, was definitely past his prime and even decked Pryor early on. I hate to say things like this because I'm a Pryor fan as well. But lets not act like Arguello wasn't stepping up to Pryors division and wasn't blown up in weight. Leonard beat greats that were either his size or bigger (even the smaller ones were at least solidified in the division or his age), which is why we shouldn't get too carried away with just names on paper. That's like looking at Marciano's record and automatically assuming that that Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles were in their prime and the same size which they definitely weren't.

- -Blah, blah.

Wouldn't be an issue had Ray not pulled his retirement shell game where he jerked around not only Marv and Aaron but the media also.

No class whatsoever, so it's his legacy bed and he'll have to sleep in it.

[True-Boxing-Fan]

leonards way better
only reason he lossed the 1st fight is becuz of his ****iness
he was undefeated at the time n was too confident n ****y
he said he'd fight Duran at his own game,flatfooted
didnt work
but later that year he fought like sugar ray leonard...hisself
and made duran quit
now dont gimme no arguements bout prime,cuz both they 1st fights was in 80'
no excuses
leonard made a mistak at 1st

Slow down dude, there is not one knowledgeable boxing historian who would ever say Ray Leonard was WAY better than Duran. So stop it.

Fact is Duran at his best was equal to what Leonard was and depends on who you ask better and he proved it in their first fight. Both fighters were primed out to the max and ready for that night and guess what, Duran won comfortably.

In that second fight, Leonard did make Duran not want to fight any more, but it's very poignant and valid to state that Duran's partying and celebratory ways after that first victory made him pay the price. His quitting was his own doing. IMO a properly ready Duran for that second fight would have been different in that he wouldn't have quit, but I feel Leonard would have won the fight ala the same way he would the Hagler fight. Close with lots of questions but still have won.

So to say Leonard was WAY better than Duran is not true one bit.

[JAB5239]

- -Jack a former hobo fought whom Tex and Doc lined up.

That's why he left both to make the Wills fight.

U denser than lead.

What a load of crap. Stop acting like Dempsey had no say in who he fought. Your double standards no no limits.

[slicksouthpaw16]

- -Blah, blah.

Wouldn't be an issue had Ray not pulled his retirement shell game where he jerked around not only Marv and Aaron but the media also.

No class whatsoever, so it's his legacy bed and he'll have to sleep in it.

Lol what wouldn't have been an issue? Ray eventually fought Hagler and I and a few others went over the potential Pryor fights. And don't give me Hagler being old. Ray was nearly shot himself and two divisions past his prime. It was only his 3rd fight in 5 years and 1st coming off a 3 year layoff.

[dreamroom]

peak hagler vs peak leonard?
wouldnt happen man,middle vs welter here
leonard beat hagler
he did it how h was suppose to
land more shots and avoid more shots

now i agree tommy was better
but yea his chin was tested too much,and he couldnt pass all the tests
but tommy is the best boxer wit a combination of power,speed and skill
but still
leonard is a ferocious puncher
i think he's actually underrated for that

leonards way better
only reason he lossed the 1st fight is becuz of his ****iness
he was undefeated at the time n was too confident n ****y
he said he'd fight Duran at his own game,flatfooted
didnt work
but later that year he fought like sugar ray leonard...hisself
and made duran quit
now dont gimme no arguements bout prime,cuz both they 1st fights was in 80'
no excuses
leonard made a mistak at 1st

No Pac Man?

Oh, you are right on the money about Leonard/Duran 1. Leading up to the fight, all the talk was "Ray can't slug it out with Berto, he get KO'd". So, Ray ******ly went toe to toe with Duran and proved he could. So he took everything Berto gave him and didn't get KO'd.......and lost the fight. If Ray would've fought a Ray Leonard fight, he would've won.
Oh, and I think Toney was a hell of a fighter too. I thought Pacquio was better than Zab, but Zab WAS terrific. Good post.

[dreamroom]

- -Jack a former hobo fought whom Tex and Doc lined up.

That's why he left both to make the Wills fight.

U denser than lead.

Nowadays he would be called "homeless". I hear all this "homeless " crap today. I was on the street for a few years, and my grandmom called me a bum. And, she was right! lol

[JAB5239]

Nowadays he would be called "homeless". I hear all this "homeless " crap today. I was on the street for a few years, and my grandmom called me a bum. And, she was right! lol

A bum doesn't work. A hobo travels to find jobs and work. Dempsey wasn't a bum by any means not definition.

[The Old LefHook]

Leonard is a serious contender for greatest ring general ever. His susceptibility to lapse into emotional warfare from time to time was more asset than detriment, though he lost one fight because of it. That little weak spot in his armor cemented him as an entertainer and a warrior and helped make him rich.