Rating old heavyweights?

[HOUDINI563]

You reveal your ineptitude unfortunately.

[Bundana]

You reveal your ineptitude unfortunately.

Ok, I think we all know, you have nothing - which is why, you can only come up with insults.

[HOUDINI563]

I have much more than you buddy.

I cannot help you if you cannot interpret the obvious intent of a quote. Also I will not play your obvious baby games.

[travestyny]

Those that controlled the sport and even more important our elected officials did not want a mixed race bout in the heavyweight division for fear of race riots like those that occurred post Johnson Jeffries.

Not according to this guy. Would you point to him as one of "those that controlled the sport." This is a boxing commissioner at the time of this issue directly contradicting your stance.

I have heard it said that politics is responsible for the failure to bring Dempsey and Wills together. To those who have mentioned this to me I have replied that such a thought is ridiculous. I know of no political or official opposition to such a bout and I have talked with many prominent and powerful men on the subject. On the contrary, I find that there exists a general demand for the bout.

same article:

[Marchegiano]

Who wrote the article? Ah, another anonymous source. You didn’t even bother to read my post, so I won’t waste too much time responding. I provide names and you provide anonymous sources. We’ve already touched upon the liberties taken in the press, especially during an era before fact checking and video proof.

Pretty sure mine is a reprint. Which means it can't be too hard to figure out who wrote the original.

Why you need a name is beyond me though. Mike Casey's name does mean Tony was KO'd bud.

How, on earth, does someone who came after the fact sus out details without contemporary sources?

[Marchegiano]

Not according to this guy. Would you point to him as one of "those that controlled the sport." This is a boxing commissioner at the time of this issue directly contradicting your stance.

same article:

Damn man, I had been shown sometime ago an article, modern article, about how NYSAC stopped the Wills fight, but, you've damn strong evidence against that narrative.

great post.

[travestyny]

Damn man, I had been shown sometime ago an article, modern article, about how NYSAC stopped the Wills fight, but, you've damn strong evidence against that narrative.

great post.

You weren't completely wrong. It simply depends on the timing. Early on, they were playing games in New York. That's because the chairman of the commission was William Muldoon, who was indeed against mixed race fights. But because of his stance, and in particular, because he was against allowing the Dempsey vs. Wills fight, he was voted out as chairman and eventually Farley became chairman.

Check this out from the International Boxing Hall of Fame:

After the Walker Law legalized boxing in New York State in 1920, Muldoon was appointed to chair the New York State Athletic Commission. In this role, Muldoon attempted to bar known gamblers from attending fights, established a no-smoking rule for bouts, and pushed for improved sanitary conditions for boxers. Muldoon was opposed to mixed-race bouts and was voted out of the chairmanship after he refused to approve a fight between heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey and the great black fighter Harry Wills. Nevertheless, Muldoon remained on the commission until 1929.

http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/nonparticipant/muldoon.html

After he was voted out, he remained on the commission, but when the Wills-Dempsey fight came back up, he was outvoted to allow the fight 2-1 by chairman Farley and commission Brower. Dempsey still refusing to meet Wills is what led to him being banned from fighting in New York State. Farley always denied that there were politics behind the fight not happening. He knew that Dempsey just wouldn't fight Wills of his own accord, and he tried everything to force the fight.

By the way, when I presented this before, the only reply from Dempsey fans was that Farley must have somehow been corrupt. To this day, the Boxing Writers Associations highest honor is the James A. Farley Award for Honesty and Integrity.

[GhostofDempsey]

Can you give us some examples of fights, where Dempsey broke an opponent's shoulder or dislocated his hip?

Hold on, let me get into my time machine and go back a century.

[GhostofDempsey]

Pretty sure mine is a reprint. Which means it can't be too hard to figure out who wrote the original.

Why you need a name is beyond me though. Mike Casey's name does mean Tony was KO'd bud.

How, on earth, does someone who came after the fact sus out details without contemporary sources?

You and that ass clown friend of yours pull obscure articles from a century ago out of your ass and think it is gospel. I provided first hand accounts from Arcel and Stillman, what would both men have to gain by colluding and lying?

You dismissed actual quotes from interviews in favor of articles with no writing credit. How do you know a journalist was actually in the gym that day to witness anything firsthand? You don’t.

I wipe my ass with your news snippets and anonymous sources. I’ll trust the testimony of the fighters and trainers who knew him or fought him. Langford said Dempsey was the greatest fighter he had ever seen. Guess he was lying too, lol. You casuals are something else. You’ll do anything to try and discredit he man while being fans of lesser fighters.

[Marchegiano]

You weren't completely wrong. It simply depends on the timing. Early on, they were playing games in New York. That's because the chairman of the commission was William Muldoon, who was indeed against mixed race fights. But because of his stance, and in particular, because he was against allowing the Dempsey vs. Wills fight, he was voted out as chairman and eventually Farley became chairman.

Check this out from the International Boxing Hall of Fame:


After he was voted out, he remained on the commission, but when the Wills-Dempsey fight came back up, he was outvoted to allow the fight 2-1 by chairman Farley and commission Brower. Dempsey still refusing to meet Wills is what led to him being banned from fighting in New York State. Farley always denied that there were politics behind the fight not happening. He knew that Dempsey just wouldn't fight Wills of his own accord, and he tried everything to force the fight.

By the way, when I presented this before, the only reply from Dempsey fans was that Farley must have somehow been corrupt. To this day, the Boxing Writers Associations highest honor is the James A. Farley Award for Honesty and Integrity.

Wow, so Dempsey using the colorline was only convenient earlier in his reign. He actually had to work to duck Wills. That's pretty big. Norfolk pushed hard and had everything right but I don't know of any commission trying to force Jack to take the fight. Wills has to be his most out-right simply ducked that man case in his career.

Don't tell me Jack had other commissions on him for this colorline bull. That'd be outright ridiculous given the vehemency of his fans.

Thanks for sharing man, real eye opener. I'd been giving Jack a pass where he deserves none.