Jess Willard v. Jack Johnson

[Marchegiano]

Hahahaha!

And to think people oppose partial birth ********.

Oh gee, with that explanation now I understand exactly why Jess isn't on anyone's top ten or even twenty ATG lists. mook

[JAB5239]

oh gee, with that explanation now i understand exactly why jess isn't on anyone's top ten or even twenty atg lists. Mook

.....😆.....

[Rusty Tromboni]

Oh gee, with that explanation now I understand exactly why Jess isn't on anyone's top ten or even twenty ATG lists. mook

No one said he should be, dumbass. Show me where, in this thread or any other, anyone has made that claim.

Fitzsimmons, O'Brien, Langford, Ketchel... these were all Middleweights!!!!! And only Ketchel was anywhere near his peak form!!! Even Burns was just barely a Heavyweight himself!

You really think fighting old a broken Middleweights in something impressive?


You're an idiot. That's universally accepted on BoxingScene. But even by your standards this comment is dumb.


Johnson was dog sh'it. The footage is indisputable. Had McCarty any better luck he would've almost certainly unseated Johnson much earlier and Johnson's legacy would probably fall more in line with that of Jackson and Wills.


People who rank Johnson highly are conflating his infamy outside the ring with actual Boxing skill.

And I'm not saying Johnson wasn't a far superior professional to Willard. He certainly has a better record. But that had no measure on how things transpired in the ring. And it's clear they'd be remembered differently if their timing was swapped: Willard would've been even more dominant than Johnson, and Johnson would've folded up faster than Willard.

[Marchegiano]

No one said he should be, dumbass. Show me where, in this thread or any other, anyone has made that claim.

Worthless statement, you came to play semantics?

Fitzsimmons, O'Brien, Langford, Ketchel... these were all Middleweights!!!!! And only Ketchel was anywhere near his peak form!!! Even Burns was just barely a Heavyweight himself!

Doesn't stop half that list from being presented in top ten and twenty ATG heavyweight lists by respected historians and media outlets

You really think fighting old a broken Middleweights in something impressive?

I think generally speaking everyone rates Johnson's wins over Willard's. Hence his consistent placement in top considerations

You're an idiot. That's universally accepted on BoxingScene. But even by your standards this comment is dumb.

Yes, so ****** and emotional I can't make a point

Johnson was dog sh'it. The footage is indisputable. Had McCarty any better luck he would've almost certainly unseated Johnson much earlier and Johnson's legacy would probably fall more in line with that of Jackson and Wills.

What footage of Luther has you seen?


People who rank Johnson highly are conflating his infamy outside the ring with actual Boxing skill.

Do you even know who Mike Paul is?

And I'm not saying Johnson wasn't a far superior professional to Willard. He certainly has a better record.Wait, what? Johnson has a better record but somehow doesn't have better wins? But that had no measure on how things transpired in the ring. And it's clear they'd be remembered differently if their timing was swapped: Willard would've been even more dominant than Johnson, and Johnson would've folded up faster than Willard.

I'm sorry Willard having never done anything but take beatings when he fought anyone with the slightest pulse bothers to so much, but, that's the case.

Johnson has the better wins, better resume, better everything. All you're doing is projecting for Jess and Luther. Jess would have what? Could have what? Luther might have huh? Johnson did. And did so against much better comp then ****ing Frank Moran including Frank Moran

Jess tied a man who got killed by a man who tied Burns. He's that far below Johnson, suck one.



Anyway, Mike Paul, he's kinda the OG computer ranking historian. An early and active member of Boxrec who sadly passed from liver cancer in the mid 00s

He made a list based on scoring attained by results of other ranked fighters. It was made in 05 was a bit dated but nothing's happened that would effect Jess.

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Jeffries
4. Marciano
5. Lewis
6. Liston
7. Tunney
8. Tyson
9. Holmes
10. Frazier
11. Foreman
12. Dempsey
13. Johnson
14. Fitzs
15. Baer
16. Charles
17. Sharkey
18. Jackson
19. Langford
20. Holyfield
21. Schmeling
22. Bowe
23. T.Sharkey
24. Gunboat
25. Burns
26. V Klitschko
27. Fulton
28. Gardner
29. Norton
30. Ruhlin
31. Wills
32. Hart
33. Goddard
34. Slavin
35. Maher
36. Carnera
37. Quarry
38. Morran
39. W Klitschko
40. McVey
41. Walcott
42. Kauffman
43. Dokes
44. Patterson
45. Killin
46. McAuliffe
47. O'Biren
48. Ryan
49. Bivins

So um, purely based on win, not only does JJ out rank Jess, so does the likes of MW Tommy Ryan and Kid McCoy. Oh Look, there's Fitzs, Langford, and O'Brien too....but no Willard, no Luther, and no one either of those mooks ever beat but an ancient JJ himself.

Hmmm, but it's just conflation with out of the ring that got JJ up there huh? Ya dumb mook.


But that's okay, it's dated. Boxrec now awards points based off results. Surely, such great wins as Jess Willard has ought to have him ranked someplace above JJ. Given nothing but results against fighters is what matters

Oh dear, no, Jess Willard is ranked 669 purely based off his wins. Wow. Right there by such greats as Rob Calloway and Clarence Brown

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bro...go=&offset=650


Guess I'll just have to take your word for it. Jess Willard has better wins than Johnson...no one knows who they are but Rusty, but, believe Rusty, he's not a ****ing moron.

Luther, Jesus, Luther's not even worth talking about.

[billeau2]

I'm sorry Willard having never done anything but take beatings when he fought anyone with the slightest pulse bothers to so much, but, that's the case.

Johnson has the better wins, better resume, better everything. All you're doing is projecting for Jess and Luther. Jess would have what? Could have what? Luther might have huh? Johnson did. And did so against much better comp then ****ing Frank Moran including Frank Moran

Jess tied a man who got killed by a man who tied Burns. He's that far below Johnson, suck one.



Anyway, Mike Paul, he's kinda the OG computer ranking historian. An early and active member of Boxrec who sadly passed from liver cancer in the mid 00s

He made a list based on scoring attained by results of other ranked fighters. It was made in 05 was a bit dated but nothing's happened that would effect Jess.

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Jeffries
4. Marciano
5. Lewis
6. Liston
7. Tunney
8. Tyson
9. Holmes
10. Frazier
11. Foreman
12. Dempsey
13. Johnson
14. Fitzs
15. Baer
16. Charles
17. Sharkey
18. Jackson
19. Langford
20. Holyfield
21. Schmeling
22. Bowe
23. T.Sharkey
24. Gunboat
25. Burns
26. V Klitschko
27. Fulton
28. Gardner
29. Norton
30. Ruhlin
31. Wills
32. Hart
33. Goddard
34. Slavin
35. Maher
36. Carnera
37. Quarry
38. Morran
39. W Klitschko
40. McVey
41. Walcott
42. Kauffman
43. Dokes
44. Patterson
45. Killin
46. McAuliffe
47. O'Biren
48. Ryan
49. Bivins

So um, purely based on win, not only does JJ out rank Jess, so does the likes of MW Tommy Ryan and Kid McCoy. Oh Look, there's Fitzs, Langford, and O'Brien too....but no Willard, no Luther, and no one either of those mooks ever beat but an ancient JJ himself.

Hmmm, but it's just conflation with out of the ring that got JJ up there huh? Ya dumb mook.


But that's okay, it's dated. Boxrec now awards points based off results. Surely, such great wins as Jess Willard has ought to have him ranked someplace above JJ. Given nothing but results against fighters is what matters

Oh dear, no, Jess Willard is ranked 669 purely based off his wins. Wow. Right there by such greats as Rob Calloway and Clarence Brown

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bro...go=&offset=650


Guess I'll just have to take your word for it. Jess Willard has better wins than Johnson...no one knows who they are but Rusty, but, believe Rusty, he's not a ****ing moron.

Luther, Jesus, Luther's not even worth talking about.

Rusty said so... thats his proof! Don't you get it...and then he says everyone on the site sees it his way lol. Idiot can't possiblt believe that, though he actually might.

Rusty figures the more he insults the more it emphasizes his crazy, half witted interpretation of fighters...He is also a racist and "white makes better" in his rankings. Mook indeed... lol.

[The Old LefHook]

Big Jess was awful smart in there. He was a white man, bright man, the right man, and not a slight man. He could fight, man, which is consistently overlooked.

[Marchegiano]

Rusty said so... thats his proof! Don't you get it...and then he says everyone on the site sees it his way lol. Idiot can't possiblt believe that, though he actually might.

Rusty figures the more he insults the more it emphasizes his crazy, half witted interpretation of fighters...He is also a racist and "white makes better" in his rankings. Mook indeed... lol.

He does have an issue with dissension. I've never seen Rusty disagree with anyone and not immediately resort to insults. He's very limited and emotional.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm sorry Willard having never done anything but take beatings when he fought anyone with the slightest pulse bothers to so much, but, that's the case.

Johnson has the better wins, better resume, better everything. All you're doing is projecting for Jess and Luther. Jess would have what? Could have what? Luther might have huh? Johnson did. And did so against much better comp then ****ing Frank Moran including Frank Moran

Jess tied a man who got killed by a man who tied Burns. He's that far below Johnson, suck one.



Anyway, Mike Paul, he's kinda the OG computer ranking historian. An early and active member of Boxrec who sadly passed from liver cancer in the mid 00s

He made a list based on scoring attained by results of other ranked fighters. It was made in 05 was a bit dated but nothing's happened that would effect Jess.

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Jeffries
4. Marciano
5. Lewis
6. Liston
7. Tunney
8. Tyson
9. Holmes
10. Frazier
11. Foreman
12. Dempsey
13. Johnson
14. Fitzs
15. Baer
16. Charles
17. Sharkey
18. Jackson
19. Langford
20. Holyfield
21. Schmeling
22. Bowe
23. T.Sharkey
24. Gunboat
25. Burns
26. V Klitschko
27. Fulton
28. Gardner
29. Norton
30. Ruhlin
31. Wills
32. Hart
33. Goddard
34. Slavin
35. Maher
36. Carnera
37. Quarry
38. Morran
39. W Klitschko
40. McVey
41. Walcott
42. Kauffman
43. Dokes
44. Patterson
45. Killin
46. McAuliffe
47. O'Biren
48. Ryan
49. Bivins

So um, purely based on win, not only does JJ out rank Jess, so does the likes of MW Tommy Ryan and Kid McCoy. Oh Look, there's Fitzs, Langford, and O'Brien too....but no Willard, no Luther, and no one either of those mooks ever beat but an ancient JJ himself.

Hmmm, but it's just conflation with out of the ring that got JJ up there huh? Ya dumb mook.


But that's okay, it's dated. Boxrec now awards points based off results. Surely, such great wins as Jess Willard has ought to have him ranked someplace above JJ. Given nothing but results against fighters is what matters

Oh dear, no, Jess Willard is ranked 669 purely based off his wins. Wow. Right there by such greats as Rob Calloway and Clarence Brown

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bro...go=&offset=650


Guess I'll just have to take your word for it. Jess Willard has better wins than Johnson...no one knows who they are but Rusty, but, believe Rusty, he's not a ****ing moron.

Luther, Jesus, Luther's not even worth talking about.

- -Dude, what grade U regressed to?

Luck on 21 yrs of age had better results against common JJ opponents.

Only so much a kid can accomplish before dying freakishly in a fight that had scarcely started.

Better'n Ali at 21, you can bank on it.

Poor Pelkeys life was ruined in the aftermath when he racked up big lawyer expenses to fight the murder charge against him. Had to continue fighting now as a punching bag to pay them off.

He turned down lucrative touring offers to recreate the fight for paying audiences across the country.

I'm mystified how you can savage two excellent young fighters who shared perhaps the greatest tragedy that can befall two young contenders.

???????

[Marchegiano]

- -Dude, what grade U regressed to?

Luck on 21 yrs of age had better results against common JJ opponents.

Only so much a kid can accomplish before dying freakishly in a fight that had scarcely started.

Better'n Ali at 21, you can bank on it.

Poor Pelkeys life was ruined in the aftermath when he racked up big lawyer expenses to fight the murder charge against him. Had to continue fighting now as a punching bag to pay them off.

He turned down lucrative touring offers to recreate the fight for paying audiences across the country.

I'm mystified how you can savage two excellent young fighters who shared perhaps the greatest tragedy that can befall two young contenders.

???????

This is pedestrian information everyone already knows. I don't know why you and Rusty share less than Wiki and act like you've hit on some unknown secrete information. If it's on wiki, it's well known, duh.

Neither one of them ever did anything is how. Just a couple of hypejobs with well handled careers that had mixed results anyway. There are a lot of sad stories, this ain't one I give any ****s about.

Better than Ali at 21? Well great for him. Was Ali the greatest at 21? Was Luther ever the Greatest? Then why the **** are you mentioning Ali in reference to a bum? Because he's a sad bum? Kay, he's a sad bum with a sad ass story and an even sadder assed "championship"

[QueensburyRules]

This is pedestrian information everyone already knows. I don't know why you and Rusty share less than Wiki and act like you've hit on some unknown secrete information. If it's on wiki, it's well known, duh.

Neither one of them ever did anything is how. Just a couple of hypejobs with well handled careers that had mixed results anyway. There are a lot of sad stories, this ain't one I give any ****s about.

Better than Ali at 21? Well great for him. Was Ali the greatest at 21? Was Luther ever the Greatest? Then why the **** are you mentioning Ali in reference to a bum? Because he's a sad bum? Kay, he's a sad bum with a sad ass story and an even sadder assed "championship"

- -At 21 Ali was arguably KOed by Cooper who had to wear weight to make the 175+ division and beat up by little Doug Jones and booed heavily by fans.

Luck pre 21 had better results over Ibro top 10 champ JJOHNSON common comp.

FACT!

Seems U need some tutoring in timeline comparisons to be able to talk coherently on the subject.

Moreover Luck held a belt equivalent to any of todays ABCs and had agreed to a title challenge in Paris to JJOHNSON belt in his next fight.

Seems U need a major humanity check and major historical oversight revision or you'll always be coming out as a dolt in the conversation.

Just stating the obvious. Beam him him up Scotty for further tutoring...