The Legend of Computer Fights

[Mr Mitts]

Some 30 odd years ago I had my first knee op,inner medial cartilage removal,done the old way,opening the
knee up like cutting an apple in half.The morning after, the surgeon came round and asked me if I had been able to move my leg at all.
I replied I've been down to the toilet,the other end of the Ward.The Surgeon said,you must have a very high pain threshold,I began to look smug,so he pointed out, it has nothing to do with courage.
My rambling point being,if he is right and, if we develop a way of measuring pain via the brain for boxing purposes,[if we haven't already?] would the individual readings be all different?

Which individual readings? Only one computer judge is necessary, wired to cameras (perhaps remotely). But the computer will feel the fight as well as see the fight better than we could.

It might be interesting to have multiple computer judges for a while until the public sees the computers are consistent and the human judges all over the place. Let us have two sets of scores for a while until one method is judged superior.

[QueensburyRules]

Yes, because an incredibly primitive calculator predicting a victory for an all American hero like Marciano over a hated (at the time) 'draft dodging' black activist could not possibly be biased could it?

- - They had two outcomes, one for US and the other for Europe, but of course when the tourney was staged, all that was hush hush.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes, because an incredibly primitive calculator predicting a victory for an all American hero like Marciano over a hated (at the time) 'draft dodging' black activist could not possibly be biased could it?

Of course not. A computer is math it would show no bias.

Now, what men did with the printout is a whole different kettle of fish.

I heard several stories as to who actually won the original radio tournament. I believe (think) it was Marciano stopping Dempsey.

One of those two had defeated Ali in the semi-finals.

When the film producer got involved the 70 something Dempsey was out.

Actually I really don't think there ever was a computer decision rendered for the Ali-Marciano performance.

They had it worked out as to who would win, and at which locations, as Queen pointed out.

I am not sure if the America - Europe thing is correct. But both were promised they would 'win' somewhere along the way.

It probably shouldn't even be called a computer fight. I don't think a computer was ever involved. The 'computer fight' (film) happened a year so after the radio tournament was done and really had no connection to it, except both called themselves a 'computer tournament.'

[Anomalocaris]

- - They had two outcomes, one for US and the other for Europe, but of course when the tourney was staged, all that was hush hush.

I read about that. I do wonder with AI having advanced over half a century now what sort of results fantasy matchups would throw up.

But of course raw statistics are never the whole story, like in all sports (football, cricket etc) - except for snooker and darts.

[Biledriver]

For the record, the no longer tech supported (but still available and will run on Windows 11) Title Bout II is probably the best program to use if you're still interested in computer fights. The Legends of Boxing program is pretty decent.

[Anomalocaris]

For the record, the no longer tech supported (but still available and will run on Windows 11) Title Bout II is probably the best program to use if you're still interested in computer fights. The Legends of Boxing program is pretty decent.

Cheers but I am the sort of bloke who would be quite happy in an age of quill and parchment.

[Dr Z]

Every boxing fan has a fantasy fight that they always wanted to see, from "Ali vs. Marciano" to "Louis vs. Dempsey." People thought these fights would never happen. However, in 1967, history was made when computers started showing who would against in fantasy matches.

In 1967, Murray Woroner, a Miami promoter and radio producer, had the idea of crowning an All-Time Great Heavyweight Champion in a series of fantasy fights that pitted fighters of different eras against each other. The winner would be figured out, using a National Cash Register (NCR) 315 Computer. The computer was fed information about each fighter, such as strengths, weaknesses, etc. The computer would then, play out the fight to find a winner. After finding a winner, the computer would print out details of the fight such as, what happened in each round, who won it, and of course the winner of the fight, by either KO, TKO, or decision. The fights were played out on the radio, for people to hear the fight, with Guy LeBow on commentary. This tournament went on for 16 weeks, until the match-up between Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey. According to the computer, Marciano won the fight by KO in 13th to become the All-Time Great Heavyweight Champion. Woroner even awarded Marcinao with a championship belt worth $10,000.

Everybody was happy with the results, except for one person, Muhammad Ali. In the tournament, Ali beat Max Schmeling in the first round of the tournament by decision, but lost to Jim Jefferies by decision in the second round of the tournament. Ali was angry that he didn't win the tournament and sued Woroner for $1 million dollars for defamation of character. However, the lawsuit was settled when Woroner made a prosination to Ali. It was that Ali would get paid $10,000 to fight the winner of the tournament, Rocky Marciano on film. Both Ali and Marciano agreed to the fight. The same rules would be used just like the tournament, with the NCR 315 Computer determining the winner.

The fight would be filmed in 1969 in a Miami studio. Marciano was long retired and had to lose 50 pounds and wear a wig to look like he was in his prime. Ali, at the time, was not fighting for three years for refusing induction into the armed forces. Both men sparred for about 75 rounds, those rounds were spliced into a complete fight, with the help of the NCR 315 Computer determing the scenarios of the fight. They filmed 4 or 5 different endings such as Ali winning by stoppage and Marcinao winning by KO. During filming of the fight, Ali was toying with Marciano by landing high punches which took Marciano's wig off. Ali did it two more times. Finally, Marciano had enough, and he landed a hard body shot to Ali, which made Ali go doubled over on the canvas. However, when filiming was over, they had a huge amount of respect for each other and became very good friends.

On January 20, 1970, the fight was shown in 1500 theaters, and grossed $5 million dollars. The computer determined that Marciano beats Ali by KO in the 13th round to become the All-Time Heavyweight Champion. The fight got a mixed reaction; some people agreed with it, some didn't. Ali even said, "The computer was made in Alabama." After being shown in theaters, the fight was never seen again and all prints of the fight were destroyed, except for one. However, during the late 70's the fight was shown on ABC's World Wide Sports show. While this was a great fight, the saddest thing about it, is the fact that Marciano died in a plane crash and never found out that he won the fight against Ali. The fight wasn't seen for over 35 years. However, in 2005, a DVD of the fight was produced with extras about the fight.

During these 35 years, the fight was never another computer fight to made public like the 1967 tournament. Boxing still, however, use computers to determine fights, privately.

In conclusion, many people have fantasy fights. Many people feel that computer can't determine fights. Anything is possible. Maybe computer can do, and maybe not, who knows? One thing is for sure though; we got to see Ali face Marciano, in a dream fight, which is what makes the computer fight legendary. Maybe in future we'll know, hopefully, if computers can in fact determine the outcome of fight, I mean with technology getting more and more advanced, it's possible.

by: Chris E.

I would be interested to see a modern computer AI take on fights between past greats. But great library of film is needed. Heck ESPN Classic, put you big time fight collection to use and give us an updated version.

[Marchegiano]

I would be interested to see a modern computer AI take on fights between past greats. But great library of film is needed. Heck ESPN Classic, put you big time fight collection to use and give us an updated version.

They don't have that yet bud. I wish a computer could watch a fight. It'd just be a cool tool to play with. Unfortunately things like AI judging is just humans prompting AI no different than you can on places like HuggingFace.

[Bronson66]

Which individual readings? Only one computer judge is necessary, wired to cameras (perhaps remotely). But the computer will feel the fight as well as see the fight better than we could.

It might be interesting to have multiple computer judges for a while until the public sees the computers are consistent and the human judges all over the place. Let us have two sets of scores for a while until one method is judged superior.

The individual readings taken from the participants, indicating the extent of their pain.

[Willie Pep 229]

It will end up being bias garbage in, bias garbage out.

Just because it's a computer doesn't mean it will be free of bias. Even AI can only function with what data we allow it to access and that data will already be slanted.

Imagine an AI drawing a conclusion based on ALL the information it can gather from the Internet.

If a billion monkeys b-ang on a billion keyboards for a billion years they will, by happenstance, recreate the entire works of William Shakespeare.

Well, the Internet has proven that wrong.