Heavyweight scenario if Tyson didnt went to prison

[Verstyle]

a. tyson never defeated an opponent thats superior to rid**** bowe
b. holyfiled had hepatits for gods sakes
c. holyfield is too small for bowe, tyson is the perfect size for holy. It doesnt matter anyways, tyson never beat anyone better than vander, vander was gonna be his BIG win and he failed. I dont care about the 1000 excuses tyson fans will make, he failed to win the fights that mattered.

how many prime or close to prime ppl did rid**** bowe even beat. answer me that1.styles do make fights alot of the times

[Brassangel]

Holyfield did have a lot of heart, and a decent chin, but it's pretty well known that he got tired prematurely in a lot of matches. His heart would keep him in it, but Tyson would likely have thrown more than one punch at a time; which still almost got Holy KO'd in the 5th round of their first actual meeting. Chances are, were it not for prison, or perhaps were it earlier in his career, Holyfield would not have gone the distance with Tyson in their first meeting.

Even if the dream scenario takes place and Tyson doesn't go to prison, he would still have likely walked out around age 34-35, but his resume would look fantastic. K-DOGG's example above shows just how amazing the 90's would have been with Tyson, Holyfield, Moorer, Lewis, Bowe, Foreman, and heck, even Morrison in there, all fighting each other and trading the belt around. He still probably would have suffered 3-4 more losses after Douglas, but they would certainly be respectable ones; plus a few wins against Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer, or even Foreman and Lewis would cement a greatness stamp by his name.

Instead of a top 10 list that tries to shy away from the above mentioned names, Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis would probably all be in there, and Foreman would be lower because he may not have ever won the belt back.

I have to say, this topic is much more interesting than the typical, "What if Rooney wasn't canned..." scenario. An entire decade could have gone down as one of the best eras in heavyweight history, instead of the calamity it has been remembered by.

As a side note (There's always one): I think that a fight between Foreman and Tyson might not end in a knockout, as both were difficult to take down when on their game. Likely, Tyson would win a 10 or 12 round decision simply because he was younger and could work harder, longer. A little like his second fight with Ruddock.

[Emon723]

Now i've think of this better version. it would be a lot easier if Holyfield beats Tyson in November 1991, and then Tyson was found guilty of **** charges and sentence to prison after, the only difference will be in 1996, either we'd see a Tyson-Holyfield rematch with the winner fighting Lewis in '97 or Tyson-Lewis.

Well here's my scenario's based on the position of the heavyweight contenders during those years and if Tyson was around and didnt go to jail.

Holyfield (27-0, 21 KOs) defeats Tyson (41-2) by a close but unanimous decision in November 1991.
In '92, Tyson found Ray Mercer (18-0, 13 KOs) too tough for his first fight after the Holyfield loss, instead choose former sparring mate Oliver McCall, and stops the Atomic Bull in 6 rounds.
Holyfield definitely opted to take on former champ Larry Holmes (who won over Mercer) for his third title defense and lost it to Rid**** Bowe like what really took place.
the prospect of seeing Mike Tyson against George Foreman resurfaces into a dream fight late that year but Big George was hardly impressive in his win over Alex Stewart and Iron Mike himself was reluctant to faced the 43-year old former HW champion. thus kayoing the fight.
Tyson decided to take on former foe Tony Tucker in a rematch, the Don King-controlled WBC is likely to installed Mike into #1 position and agreed the winner should face the Lewis-Ruddock winner. Tyson beats Tucker by late TKO.
by 1993, new champion Rid**** Bowe was not being demanded to faced Lewis next, but seeing the opportunity of a fight with Tyson looms, Big Daddy took the easy route, not risking to defend his title against the likes of a Moorer or Morrison. yes, he gave Dokes and Ferguson (upset win over Mercer) title shots.
Lewis and Tyson will battle for the WBC Elimination bout in '93, and Lewis won by a hairline, very close decision, Tyson is no longer invincible as he absorbed his third loss, Iron Mike's record drop to 43-3 (38 KOs) his handlers advises him to take a year off.
and now its the time for Bowe to ducked Lewis and dropped the WBC belt in favor of a Holyfield rematch in November 1993, where he lost his title, Lewis defend his newly-worn belt against compatriot Frank Bruno.
same titles changing hands for the WBA/IBF from Holyfield to Moorer to Foreman. (also for the WBO) but for the WBC, Lewis retain his title for the 2nd time vs Tony Tucker in May 1994, Tyson made a comeback and knocks out Ray Mercer (he finally fought Ray upon seeing him look vulrenable).
The stage is set for Lewis-Tyson II, so instead of McCall knocking Lewis, its Tyson, who would stop Lewis in a return fight and gave Lennox his first loss. via one-punch, 4th round kayo.
1995: WBA/IBF Champion is George Foreman while the WBC Champion is Mike Tyson, the public clamour for this two to fight was so high, it has to happen, and by summer '95, Tyson unifies the belt despite loud cheers for Big George, at 46 years old, Foreman was in no condition to beat Tyson and Mike was generous enough not to KO George and allowed the fight to go the full 12 rounds.
Holyfield made a comeback in May 1995 and knocks out Bruce Seldon (instead of taking on Mercer), with Tyson being undisputed champion, its just natural to think Tyson vs Holyfield II will come next, The Real Deal will not agree to a third fight with Rid**** Bowe.
Holyfield won via 11th round TKO over Tyson and became a three-time HW champion by November 1995, Tyson's career was already over at that point at age 29 and his record dipped to 46-4 (40 KOs).
From there, Holyfield defends his undisputed belt with revenge KO win over Moorer and a victory over Lewis in 1996 until Lewis even up matters by winning over Holyfield in a rematch by '97.

Aftermath:
Tyson will continue to fight, but will no longer get a title shot, Lewis will try to call him out for a third fight, I see Tyson beating Frank Bruno, Botha, Nielsen, Buster Douglas! (he came back in '98) Savarese, Golota from the period 1996-2000, but I dont see him ever fighting a McNeeley, Orlin Norris, Francis or Danny Williams, Tyson's career will end by a decision loss to David Tua.
Lewis will hang around, holding the title belt, perhaps take on both Klitschkos but I dont see him being stopped by Rahman in the new millennium, Lewis has split fights with Tyson and Holyfield in the 90s, which will be his 2 losses, I believe a Lewis taking on a version of Tyson that didnt went to prison will be a pick'em fight around '93-'94.
Holyfield will fight on, with a possible match with then pound for pound king Roy Jones being considered.
And based on the events that transpired, a Bowe vs Lewis will never ever occur on any given timeline in the 1990s, Bowe never showed any desire to face Lewis and his career was already over in the 2 beatings Golota gave to him in 1996.

[JAB5239]

Now i've think of this better version. it would be a lot easier if Holyfield beats Tyson in November 1991, and then Tyson was found guilty of **** charges and sentence to prison after, the only difference will be in 1996, either we'd see a Tyson-Holyfield rematch with the winner fighting Lewis in '97 or Tyson-Lewis.

Well here's my scenario's based on the position of the heavyweight contenders during those years and if Tyson was around and didnt go to jail.

Holyfield (27-0, 21 KOs) defeats Tyson (41-2) by a close but unanimous decision in November 1991.
In '92, Tyson found Ray Mercer (18-0, 13 KOs) too tough for his first fight after the Holyfield loss, instead choose former sparring mate Oliver McCall, and stops the Atomic Bull in 6 rounds.
Holyfield definitely opted to take on former champ Larry Holmes (who won over Mercer) for his third title defense and lost it to Rid**** Bowe like what really took place.
the prospect of seeing Mike Tyson against George Foreman resurfaces into a dream fight late that year but Big George was hardly impressive in his win over Alex Stewart and Iron Mike himself was reluctant to faced the 43-year old former HW champion. thus kayoing the fight.
Tyson decided to take on former foe Tony Tucker in a rematch, the Don King-controlled WBC is likely to installed Mike into #1 position and agreed the winner should face the Lewis-Ruddock winner. Tyson beats Tucker by late TKO.
by 1993, new champion Rid**** Bowe was not being demanded to faced Lewis next, but seeing the opportunity of a fight with Tyson looms, Big Daddy took the easy route, not risking to defend his title against the likes of a Moorer or Morrison. yes, he gave Dokes and Ferguson (upset win over Mercer) title shots.
Lewis and Tyson will battle for the WBC Elimination bout in '93, and Lewis won by a hairline, very close decision, Tyson is no longer invincible as he absorbed his third loss, Iron Mike's record drop to 43-3 (38 KOs) his handlers advises him to take a year off.
and now its the time for Bowe to ducked Lewis and dropped the WBC belt in favor of a Holyfield rematch in November 1993, where he lost his title, Lewis defend his newly-worn belt against compatriot Frank Bruno.
same titles changing hands for the WBA/IBF from Holyfield to Moorer to Foreman. (also for the WBO) but for the WBC, Lewis retain his title for the 2nd time vs Tony Tucker in May 1994, Tyson made a comeback and knocks out Ray Mercer (he finally fought Ray upon seeing him look vulrenable).
The stage is set for Lewis-Tyson II, so instead of McCall knocking Lewis, its Tyson, who would stop Lewis in a return fight and gave Lennox his first loss. via one-punch, 4th round kayo.
1995: WBA/IBF Champion is George Foreman while the WBC Champion is Mike Tyson, the public clamour for this two to fight was so high, it has to happen, and by summer '95, Tyson unifies the belt despite loud cheers for Big George, at 46 years old, Foreman was in no condition to beat Tyson and Mike was generous enough not to KO George and allowed the fight to go the full 12 rounds.
Holyfield made a comeback in May 1995 and knocks out Bruce Seldon (instead of taking on Mercer), with Tyson being undisputed champion, its just natural to think Tyson vs Holyfield II will come next, The Real Deal will not agree to a third fight with Rid**** Bowe.
Holyfield won via 11th round TKO over Tyson and became a three-time HW champion by November 1995, Tyson's career was already over at that point at age 29 and his record dipped to 46-4 (40 KOs).
From there, Holyfield defends his undisputed belt with revenge KO win over Moorer and a victory over Lewis in 1996 until Lewis even up matters by winning over Holyfield in a rematch by '97.

Aftermath:
Tyson will continue to fight, but will no longer get a title shot, Lewis will try to call him out for a third fight, I see Tyson beating Frank Bruno, Botha, Nielsen, Buster Douglas! (he came back in '98) Savarese, Golota from the period 1996-2000, but I dont see him ever fighting a McNeeley, Orlin Norris, Francis or Danny Williams, Tyson's career will end by a decision loss to David Tua.
Lewis will hang around, holding the title belt, perhaps take on both Klitschkos but I dont see him being stopped by Rahman in the new millennium, Lewis has split fights with Tyson and Holyfield in the 90s, which will be his 2 losses, I believe a Lewis taking on a version of Tyson that didnt went to prison will be a pick'em fight around '93-'94.
Holyfield will fight on, with a possible match with then pound for pound king Roy Jones being considered.
And based on the events that transpired, a Bowe vs Lewis will never ever occur on any given timeline in the 1990s, Bowe never showed any desire to face Lewis and his career was already over in the 2 beatings Golota gave to him in 1996.

Who says bumping old threads is a bad thing?

Interesting observations and ideas on how things may have went. I look forward to seeing some other responses.

[Canes Ghost]

Who says bumping old threads is a bad thing?

Interesting observations and ideas on how things may have went. I look forward to seeing some other responses.

Jab is right this is interesting and there are some classic threads if you can be bothered to search.

Just one thought I would like to share.

As good as things could of been had Tyson not gone to prison for **** is what negative impact would that of had on Tyson.

Whether or not he was guilty in the first place, how would it of affected Tyson.

I think prison had some positive impact on Tyson, it made him think about his behaviour and you only have to look at him now to see he is a different person to the one who went inside.

He may have gone on to try and **** someone else (if he was guilty) thinking I got away with it before so I can again.

Even if he was innocent, would he of learned his lesson or would he let himself and his desire for women allow him to put himself in situations again where he could be accused of such a horrible crime.


Sure things would certainly of panned out different but how? We can only have fun guessing.

I do believe that we were deprived of some fantastic matchups and I also believe that whatever happened it still would of been Lewis and Holyfield that were the two most dominant, purely because there are many things that make a great fighter and Bowe and Tyson never had the hunger or desire like Holyfield or Lewis did. Maybe that was partly due to their circumstances (Would Lewis of been so great for so long had he became undisputed champ in 93, he wouldn't of fought on for so long because he would of already accomplished his mission) but for me, mentally Lewis and Holyfield had much more discipline,hunger and desire in and out of the ring.


For the record had Lewis and Bowe fought in 93, I think Bowe would of worn down an over confident Lewis and stopped him in impressive fashion in a thrilling fight. Bowe was criticized unfairly for having no heart, even Lewis was at that time as well. I think this would of been a great fight where both proved they were world class fighters. I believe it would of been the first of three fights between these two men.

[CarlosG815]

Jab is right this is interesting and there are some classic threads if you can be bothered to search.

Just one thought I would like to share.

As good as things could of been had Tyson not gone to prison for **** is what negative impact would that of had on Tyson.

Whether or not he was guilty in the first place, how would it of affected Tyson.

I think prison had some positive impact on Tyson, it made him think about his behaviour and you only have to look at him now to see he is a different person to the one who went inside.

He may have gone on to try and **** someone else (if he was guilty) thinking I got away with it before so I can again.

Even if he was innocent, would he of learned his lesson or would he let himself and his desire for women allow him to put himself in situations again where he could be accused of such a horrible crime.


Sure things would certainly of panned out different but how? We can only have fun guessing.

I do believe that we were deprived of some fantastic matchups and I also believe that whatever happened it still would of been Lewis and Holyfield that were the two most dominant, purely because there are many things that make a great fighter and Bowe and Tyson never had the hunger or desire like Holyfield or Lewis did. Maybe that was partly due to their circumstances (Would Lewis of been so great for so long had he became undisputed champ in 93, he wouldn't of fought on for so long because he would of already accomplished his mission) but for me, mentally Lewis and Holyfield had much more discipline,hunger and desire in and out of the ring.


For the record had Lewis and Bowe fought in 93, I think Bowe would of worn down an over confident Lewis and stopped him in impressive fashion in a thrilling fight. Bowe was criticized unfairly for having no heart, even Lewis was at that time as well. I think this would of been a great fight where both proved they were world class fighters. I believe it would of been the first of three fights between these two men.

Who in the hell do you know that goes to prison and comes out a better person? Very few if any. Tyson himself has said that he lost his humanity and respect for people inside of prison. He said it made him a worse person and the people there should be in hospitals and not prisons. Add to that the fact that he was innocent, how do you expect to learn a lesson or have a positive impact when you lose faith in humanity and your justice system?

Prison had no positive effect on Tyson. He was very sensitive and emotional his entire life and to put a person like that in prison is only going to take a person who is emotional and create negative emotion. If you watch any interview about Mike pre prison everybody says the same thing. He was a hugger, he would cry, he was very caring and sensitive. Watch any interview with Steve Lott when he talks about Tyson, who he had a very close relationship and lived with for a long time. He almost cries everytime he talks about Mike. He talks about how Steve got stood up by a girl on the same night as one of Mikes big fights, and instead of going through with his plans to party with friends, Mike spent the night with Steve in the hotel and talked with him. Lott called him a big teddy bear and said he always was.

He was a monster in the ring and people take his ferocity and look at him as a monster outside of the ring which I don't believe to be true. It wasn't until he went to prison that he stopped trusting people, got hooked on bad drugs, and was getting into trouble all the time. The little things like punching Mitch Green, who had followed Mike and harassed him in public, and getting into a car accident were nothing compared to the charges he would face on and off consistently after his prison sentence.

[Scott9945]

Who in the hell do you know that goes to prison and comes out a better person? Very few if any. Tyson himself has said that he lost his humanity and respect for people inside of prison. He said it made him a worse person and the people there should be in hospitals and not prisons. Add to that the fact that he was innocent, how do you expect to learn a lesson or have a positive impact when you lose faith in humanity and your justice system?

Prison had no positive effect on Tyson. He was very sensitive and emotional his entire life and to put a person like that in prison is only going to take a person who is emotional and create negative emotion. If you watch any interview about Mike pre prison everybody says the same thing. He was a hugger, he would cry, he was very caring and sensitive. Watch any interview with Steve Lott when he talks about Tyson, who he had a very close relationship and lived with for a long time. He almost cries everytime he talks about Mike. He talks about how Steve got stood up by a girl on the same night as one of Mikes big fights, and instead of going through with his plans to party with friends, Mike spent the night with Steve in the hotel and talked with him. Lott called him a big teddy bear and said he always was.

He was a monster in the ring and people take his ferocity and look at him as a monster outside of the ring which I don't believe to be true. It wasn't until he went to prison that he stopped trusting people, got hooked on bad drugs, and was getting into trouble all the time. The little things like punching Mitch Green, who had followed Mike and harassed him in public, and getting into a car accident were nothing compared to the charges he would face on and off consistently after his prison sentence.

Prison may have saved Bernard Hopkins and a few others, but it certainly didn't help Mike Tyson. When you look at a chronological graph and it is obvious that Tyson went steadily downhill (biting, violent rants, drugs, traffic altercations, etc.) after getting out of prison.

[CarlosG815]

Prison may have saved Bernard Hopkins and a few others, but it certainly didn't help Mike Tyson. When you look at a chronological graph and it is obvious that Tyson went steadily downhill (biting, violent rants, drugs, traffic altercations, etc.) after getting out of prison.

I agree with you. Mentally Bernard Hopkins is a different person. I think Mike is very intelligent but Hopkins to me is on another level of mental strength. Bernard is very smart and I agree he was able to come out of prison a good person. For most others though that is not the case.

[Scott9945]

I agree with you. Mentally Bernard Hopkins is a different person. I think Mike is very intelligent but Hopkins to me is on another level of mental strength. Bernard is very smart and I agree he was able to come out of prison a good person. For most others though that is not the case.

Hopkins went into prison a nobody, but matured and acquired the discipline that he became legendary for. Same with Don King for that matter. Tyson was already a celebrity, and there is absolutely no upside to doing time in a maximum security prison. He could have just moved to Sweden or someplace if all he needed to do was clear his head.