** Top 10 HW's ATG...**

[brownpimp88]

I don't think it is underestimating Holy to keep him out of the top ten. I think he is top 15 most likely. He was a great champ.

uh no, hes better than tunney, tunney has a record thats all, how long did he actually stay as champ, lol not very long. He lost to a middleweight in his prime while holy moved up in weight and beat two great fighters like bowe and tyson.

[hhascup]

Tyson was a heavyweight that became #1 pound for pound, lennox defended the belt 15 times and was champ for 7-8 years. Holyfield moved up in weight and beat tyson, bowe, moorer and other former champs. Yet they aint top 10 but tunney and dempsey are. What did marciano do thats so special, beat an aging louis, walcott and moore. Its ridiculous the amount of praise they get.

Face it holyfield, lennox and tyson are top 10, or top 12 and i dont want some guy giving me some stats to act like they aint.

Out of those 3, I would rate them Lewis, Holyfield and then Tyson.

Everyone has there opinon, you can make a case for all of them. In my book, Ali and Louis are 1-2.

[Orishaman]

I completely agree. I really wish he hadn't retired when he did, though. Can you imagine Tunny-Schmeling, Tunney-Sharkey, Tunney-Baer even?

He could have done much more to establish how great he was if he'd just fought on for a few more years.

Tunney was the mold of things to come not only on the HW but on the new generation of boxers....he knew when to get out..he was a complicated cat...and he was done....he gave us enough.....but sure it would ahve been interesting how it would have lshaped for him...but his legacy was cemented when he beat George Carpentiere the Frenchman was a great fighter, tough and underated, if Carpentier wouldhave been American history would have treated him with far more respect!!

[brownpimp88]

rid**** bowe is an underachiver so i dont rate him too high but he would still beat johnson. Holyfield cleaned house in two divisions and was champ for like 8 years in total if you include both belts.

[The Surgeon]

rid**** bowe is an underachiver so i dont rate him too high but he would still beat johnson. Holyfield cleaned house in two divisions and was champ for like 8 years in total if you include both belts.

Holyfeild makes mine everytime Pimp

[K-DOGG]

Holyfield is top 10, i hate it when people under estimate him, he fought everyone and he has beat better opponents than tunney, dont give me those stats.

You mean don't mention that he lost 2 of 3 to Bowe, one by knock-out?

Or that his first title reign consisted of two defenses to 40+ former champs and one journeyman who nearly knocked him out and that he lost his title to the first "legitimate" contender he faced?

Or maybe that his second reign ended in his first defense to Michael Moorer?

Or perhaps that his whole fame is based on beating a past his best, post-prison Mike Tyson?

Or that he should have gone 0-2 to Lennox Lewis?



Holy fought the best; but the best bested him more often than not. The main reason people want to put him in the Top 10 ATG list is due to the win over Bowe and the first Tyson fight. He deserves credit for both; but they shouldn't be taken out of context in regard to his whole career.

[K-DOGG]

Those matchups would have been interesting, but I think a Tunney/Godfrey fight would have had the most interest to me personally, but of course Tunney didn't want to have anything to do with Big George, which is kinda strange because Tunney called out Harry Wills on occasion (before Tunney won the title), so I don't think it's entirely a black vs. white issue there...

But then again, Wills blatantly ducked Godfrey on a number of occasions, so maybe both he & Tunney were aware of something in ole' George.

For the record though...

Gene Tunney W-15 George Godfrey (about 9-6 in rounds or thereabouts, and that's provided Tunney's chin is even good enough at heavyweight, which is an area/attribute that's still a question mark for me...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now)

P.S. I find it interesting how Tunney was almost stripped of the heavyweight title in 1928.

Ah, I overlooked Godfrey...damn it.

Refresh my memory on why Tunney was almost stripped, if you don't mind.

[K-DOGG]

Tunney was the mold of things to come not only on the HW but on the new generation of boxers....he knew when to get out..he was a complicated cat...and he was done....he gave us enough.....but sure it would ahve been interesting how it would have lshaped for him...but his legacy was cemented when he beat George Carpentiere the Frenchman was a great fighter, tough and underated, if Carpentier wouldhave been American history would have treated him with far more respect!!

Could be; but wasn't Carpantier past his best by the time Tunny stopped him?

[brownpimp88]

You mean don't mention that he lost 2 of 3 to Bowe, one by knock-out?

Or that his first title reign consisted of two defenses to 40+ former champs and one journeyman who nearly knocked him out and that he lost his title to the first "legitimate" contender he faced?

Or maybe that his second reign ended in his first defense to Michael Moorer?

Or perhaps that his whole fame is based on beating a past his best, post-prison Mike Tyson?

Or that he should have gone 0-2 to Lennox Lewis?



Holy fought the best; but the best bested him more often than not. The main reason people want to put him in the Top 10 ATG list is due to the win over Bowe and the first Tyson fight. He deserves credit for both; but they shouldn't be taken out of context in regard to his whole career.

what a joke, lets see what marciano has.

An old moore, an old louis and an old walcott. Holyfield has an old foreman and an old holmes. Tunney beat an out of his prime dempsey twice, holyfield beat a tyson that had 4 tune up matches after his layoff. Tunney lost to greb and fought to a draw with him.

Holyfield beat bowe, which is huge and holyfiled had hepatits a in thier 3rd fight. Holyfield has beat moorer, tyson twice, bowe, foreman, holmes, buster douglas, dokes, pinklon, and at cruiser he beat qawi twice and carlos de leon. Yeah pal that beats the overall resume that marciano and tunney possess.

[Yogi]

but his legacy was cemented when he beat George Carpentiere the Frenchman was a great fighter, tough and underated, if Carpentier wouldhave been American history would have treated him with far more respect!!

Watch Dempsey/Carpentier & Tunney/Carpentier back-to-back and tell me if you even see the same fighter in Carpentier because I certainly don't...Whereas against Dempsey, Carpentier showed excellant speed of hand & foot, against Tunney MUCH of that hand & foot speed was missing from Carpentier by the time of that fight, so I'm left with no choice but to think that was a depleted version of Carpentier that Tunney beat.

Also, if anything, I think Carpentier was overrated for the longest time (at light heavy, specifically), in my opinion, and while he certainly had his share of boxing talent, I can't help but view him as somewhat of the media-hyped crybaby of his time...

Taking away the dives his opponents took (like Levinsky), the fixed fights, the bad hometown decisions (like Jeff Smith), the cheap shots (vs. Ted 'Kid' Lewis) and all those cries of "Foul!" he so frequently did, what wins are left on Carpentier's record that are overly impressive?

I see little beyond a knockout victory or two over Bombadier Billy Wells, which even then might not have been on the up-and-up...I just haven't looked into that fight(s) like I have other fights of Carpentier's.