Ali hadnt been stripped? Frazier still great??

[Frazier's 15th round]

Frazier wasn't fast moving forward? Are you kidding?

[butterfly1964]

Number two, Tyson wasn't 100% for that fight either. You agree with that yourself. And hell, what does Tyson even have to do with this? Is that some kind of desperate attempt to turn my opinion around and make it seem like you're winning the argument?
Sheez. You suck.

I just saying that saying that it was the peak Ali that fought Frazier is just as dumb (probably dumber) as saying that it was the peak Tyson that fought Douglass.

[Heckler]

I just saying that saying that it was the peak Ali that fought Frazier is just as dumb (probably dumber) as saying that it was the peak Tyson that fought Douglass.

Ali definately wasn't at his peak when he fought Frazier in 71', but he was still very good. If there were positive developments in Ali between 67 and the first Frazier fight (i don't believe there were any) they were definately not enough to offset the loss in athleticism that occured during his layoff. I would pick Frazier in the first fight over any version of Ali, the loss in the first fight would be the learning curve Ali needed to be sucessful in the latter fights and develop a respect for Joe as a fighter.

[butterfly1964]

Ali definately wasn't at his peak when he fought Frazier in 71', but he was still very good. If there were positive developments in Ali between 67 and the first Frazier fight (i don't believe there were any) they were definately not enough to offset the loss in athleticism that occured during his layoff. I would pick Frazier in the first fight over any version of Ali, the loss in the first fight would be the learning curve Ali needed to be sucessful in the latter fights and develop a respect for Joe as a fighter.

I disagree. A prime Ali had great stamina, IMO better than Frazier's and his speed would dictate the fight. His punches were also more accurate than the '71 Ali. Ali took the early rounds from Frazier, but faded, because he wasn't in top condition, plus the extra loss in footspeed allowed Frazier to close the gap. I can see Ali pulling off a very close UD in the first fight, and then Ali figures him out and any rematches would be in a wider margin.

[Verstyle]

Yeah, and he would have broken Rcoky's record as well.

quite possible.....

[QueensburyRules]

I can't agree with that.

You name me one fighter that could take a 3 year lay-off (when they are at their prime), and come back to be the same fighter?

It's not possible IMO.

- -Jazzysan , wrong then, but now we have an even better example, Vitali Klitschko who returned after a 4 year absence straight away into WBC champ Sam Peter without the tuneups Ali had.

Yessss, Ali's little lost lambs, they do still bleat so just like back then , so all is still right in Corona Virus lockdown!

[TonyGe]

Ali didn't just come out of his ban and fought Frazier he had two fights prior to the match. Granted there was a short turn around. I think it's likely he would have lost prior to the ban given the distractions out of the ring.

[Willie Pep 229]

Ali didn't just come out of his ban and fought Frazier he had two fights prior to the match. Granted there was a short turn around. I think it's likely he would have lost prior to the ban given the distractions out of the ring.

I like to think that Dundee was smart (fool me) and without the ban he would have taken on Frazier in late '67 or early '68 right after Frazier stopped Chuvalo in four.

At that point Frazier would have enough credibility as a justifiable contender, but not be as dangerous as he would become.

In '67 Frazier wouldn't have been ready and it's Ali by UD!

But you know, What if?

Ali always complained that he was rushed into the fight with Frazier. But then again maybe just an excuse.

[HOUDINI563]

Pre exile Ali beats Frazier. Ali’s success in fights 2 and 3 where he was well trained and active is an indication.

Frazier’s legs were not quick. Joe said so himself:

“My legs are slow but my fists, WATCH OUT!”

[TonyGe]

I like to think that Dundee was smart (fool me) and without the ban he would have taken on Frazier in late '67 or early '68 right after Frazier stopped Chuvalo in four.

At that point Frazier would have enough credibility as a justifiable contender, but not be as dangerous as he would become.

In '67 Frazier wouldn't have been ready and it's Ali by UD!

But you know, What if?

Ali always complained that he was rushed into the fight with Frazier. But then again maybe just an excuse.

Yeah it was only a few months after his last fight that he got in the ring with Frazier. Can't recall who he fought just before his exile and how he did but I see your point.