Ali hadnt been stripped? Frazier still great??

[K-DOGG]

If Ali was allowed to continue fighting and hadnt been stripped as champion, would Frazier still be regarded as the great fighter he is today?

Of course, assuming when they met Ali beat Frazier.

Frazier built his reputation on the victory over Ali, and his rise to become champion wen Ali was away.

I'd have to say if Ali beat him the first time, which is far from a given even with Ali never being forced into exile, Frazier would have eventually beaten him in a rematch. However, if Frazier never beat Ali, who would have? I'd have to say Frazier would give Ali enough merry-hell that he'd be considered one of the greatest fighters never to win the title. Greatness is greatness, though his win over Ali certainly helped secure his place in the pantheon.

[BKM-]

I can't agree with that.

You name me one fighter that could take a 3 year lay-off (when they are at their prime), and come back to be the same fighter?

It's not possible IMO.

I aint denying the fact that Ali wasn't the same after his lay off, i just purely believe that Frazier was a guy that had the will and style to beat any version of Ali, atleast once.
You shouldn't say things like, Its not possible(Maybe you meant something diffirent with that) because Ali wasn't unbeatable, and the ones that claim that are butterfly's.

[Abe Attell]

Frazier really benefited from Ali's exile: he was able to become Champion...when he fought Ali, Ali wasn't the same fighter: his ability to dance was not the same, his speed was not the same, and his style was based on reflexes/moving/speed. If Ali wasn't able to take the punishment he was able to take, he would of been KTFO in his return.

Frazier wasn't that fast moving forward, not like a Dempsey or a Tyson

[K-DOGG]

I think everybody should really take a look at Ali's last few fights before he went into exile.


Frazier really benefited from Ali's exile: he was able to become Champion...when he fought Ali, Ali wasn't the same fighter: his ability to dance was not the same, his speed was not the same, and his style was based on reflexes/moving/speed. If Ali wasn't able to take the punishment he was able to take, he would of been KTFO in his return.

Frazier wasn't that fast moving forward, not like a Dempsey or a Tyson

Abe, there's no doubt in my mind that Ali's legs and timing weren't the same after the layoff, to say nothing of how brittle his hands became. However, I do think that Joe had the style to have possibly beaten Ali in '68 or '69 without the layoff......or it could very well have been divine providence jumping in and saying, "Wait a minute. We've got some really good, even great heavyweights coming up here in the seventies and we've got this unbeatable fighter about to meet them. That's just not fair, lets influence the minds of the draft board so as to change the qualification status for the draft. Sure, that'll cause a lot of young men to be drafted who wouldn't have; but here's teh positive: there will be a backlash from the youth of America, this kid with all this physical talent and verbosity will become an icon among those youth in the meantime; his physical skills will declline like and put him closer to the level of this upcoming great era of heavyweights.

Brilliant!".....and they go out and have a Guiness.

[Abe Attell]

or it could very well have been divine providence jumping in and saying, "Wait a minute. We've got some really good, even great heavyweights coming up here in the seventies and we've got this unbeatable fighter about to meet them. That's just not fair, lets influence the minds of the draft board so as to change the qualification status for the draft. Sure, that'll cause a lot of young men to be drafted who wouldn't have; but here's teh positive: there will be a backlash from the youth of America, this kid with all this physical talent and verbosity will become an icon among those youth in the meantime; his physical skills will declline like and put him closer to the level of this upcoming great era of heavyweights

??? WTF??? A Conspiracy?

By Nature or the Government? LOL

Not sure what you are saying

[K-DOGG]

??? WTF??? A Conspiracy?

By Nature or the Government? LOL

Not sure what you are saying

It's early in the morning here and I'm only on my second cup of coffee. lol!!!

[Abe Attell]

It's early in the morning here and I'm only on my second cup of coffee. lol!!!

LOL, I thought you were going crazy...I think you need a break from the computer, and so do I...end of '06 is coming, will not do this as much next year.

[K-DOGG]

LOL, I thought you were going crazy...I think you need a break from the computer, and so do I...end of '06 is coming, will not do this as much next year.

..If I get the promotion I'm seeking....or if I don't, I probably won't be on as much either; but if I'm making more money....well, I can get a home computer and check out things at a different time, anyway.

Merry Christmas, Happy Haunika (sp)...and Happy New Year..early.

[Abe Attell]

..If I get the promotion I'm seeking....or if I don't, I probably won't be on as much either; but if I'm making more money....well, I can get a home computer and check out things at a different time, anyway.

Merry Christmas, Happy Haunika (sp)...and Happy New Year..early.

You too, and everybody

I will not have time to be on the forums next year because of what I am trying to get into, but during big fights will try to be on here...Although I here there can be lots of down time in what I am trying to do, so...No, have to do something more productive or I will go

[K-DOGG]

You too, and everybody

I will not have time to be on the forums next year because of what I am trying to get into, but during big fights will try to be on here...Although I here there can be lots of down time in what I am trying to do, so...No, have to do something more productive or I will go

I understand you more than you know....dito.