What if Clay/Ali had lost to Sonny Liston?

[Willie Pep 229]

Both Ali Liston bouts were officially investigated and nothing was found to indicate a fix. After fight 2 the FBI conducted a one year investigation to try to unearth evidence that either both was fixed. The investigation was given up as no evidence was found.

Yes! Furthermore the FBI had just finished breaking the back of the IBC and Carbo and Palermo (Liston's manager) were serving 20+ year sentences in federal prison. The FBI was all over boxing.

Add, Bobby Kennedy's investigations from the AG Office.

Boxing at that point was cleaner than it had been for 12 years prior, and was likely cleaner then, than it is today.

Granted there may have been things happening with the Black ******s, that I don't know, but at that point the "mob" was at bay trying to get away from boxing (and stay out of prison).

In short, Liston's mob connections where serving hard time; he was out there unprotected and on his own.

P.S. I am not saying that the mob disappeared or wouldn't be coming back, they would, but not at that time, things were very hot.

[HOUDINI563]

The point is that both bouts were extensively and numerously investigated via traditional means, the boxing commissions, and via the FBI. None of these found any evidence that the bouts were fixed. Hoover had a chip on his shoulder concerning both fights and wanted to find some level of wrong doing. All was abandoned after over a year of investigation. Nothing was found that was improper.

[QueensburyRules]

The point is that both bouts were extensively and numerously investigated via traditional means, the boxing commissions, and via the FBI. None of these found any evidence that the bouts were fixed. Hoover had a chip on his shoulder concerning both fights and wanted to find some level of wrong doing. All was abandoned after over a year of investigation. Nothing was found that was improper.

- -Hoovy was proper improper hisself and woulda quickly sniffed U out as major league IMPROPER had he extended his investigation further.

Ali staged his comeback starting at age 28 after sparring in uncounted dozens of gyms around the country on his speaking tours.

He was 29 for FOY at his traditional athletic peak when Joe gutted him.

U making him out to be a mush mouth like U ain't cuttin' the mustard. When I was 28-29 I was as bulletproof and invincible as it gets in spite of debilitating injuries far worse than a soft layoff.

In short, Ali was a stud, not U breeding mare before Joe literally gutted him like one of his hogs he was preparing for breakfast.

Yes, U burst into tears, we get that, but time to move on to a new hero. Hear this Shakur Stevenson feller in sore need of worshipers after that video surfaced of him beating on a couple of girls in a parking garage.

[HOUDINI563]

Sorry Queen I was a Frazier supporter in those days.

If you are prevented from performing your profession for nearly four years you cannot expect to be back 100% within 5 months. Ali wasn’t as he became exhausted after 7-8 rounds. An in shape Ali beat Frazier twice after stopping him in 1975. Also remember Frazier was in the hospital for weeks after beating Ali in 71.

[QueensburyRules]

Sorry Queen I was a Frazier supporter in those days.

If you are prevented from performing your profession for nearly four years you cannot expect to be back 100% within 5 months. Ali wasn’t as he became exhausted after 7-8 rounds. An in shape Ali beat Frazier twice after stopping him in 1975. Also remember Frazier was in the hospital for weeks after beating Ali in 71.

- -Remember Mercante near poked out Joes only good eye Midrounds, so U saying Ali couldn't whoop a one armed fight with only a single half eye to see his opponent?

Need to keep U Yap shut if U wanna promote Ali.

Joe had a genetic high blood pressure condition and shouldn't have been fighting, that's the reason for hospitalization since blood pressure spikes in athletic competition, but his would not come down. Took them a few days to do so.

Ali was far and away the most damaged in the fight, and not just physically, not Joe.

[HOUDINI563]

Frazier’s blood pressure was popping a cork because he was in the ting with Ali for 15 rounds. Otherwise he would not have been in the hospital for weeks.