Rocko

Sanders put him on the canvas - from a push I think.

Bowe threw his belt in the trash can and refused to fight Lewis because when he won the undisputed championship he was a promotional free agent, had he completed the tournament that included Lewis-Ruddock and Bowe-Holyfield, he would have been contractually obligated to the promotional outfit that put on the tournament (Main Events?). Thus he opted to stay a free agent and let Lewis be called a paper champ (which is what you are when you are handed the WBC belt twice in a row for doing nothing but A. Sitting on a beach, and B. Beating a crackhead just out of retirement with severe emotional problems. When HBO had already signed Bowe to fight Lewis all Lewis had to do was beat unthreatening challenger Oliver McCall who had lost all of his most important fights. Instead Lewis was knocked out and HBO threw him back onto the scrap heap. When both Lewis and Bowe were making comebacks Lewis was being interviewed live on BBC and Bowe actually called into the show and challenged Lewis to sign a contract for them to fight. No belts (neither of them had belts) just for honor. Lewis' reply was that he was more interested in chasing then champion Michael Moorer. MICHAEL MOORER! That shows you how much he really wanted to fight Bowe. Its like when he said he was ducked by Tyson. Yeah Tyson paid Lewis 4 mil to step aside but people seem to forget or never knew the actual contract that he entered into with Lewis. He paid Lewis 4 mil to WAIT until he had beaten Seldon then he would fight Lewis with Lewis to get an additional 12 mil (his highest purse by far). Tyson beat Seldon and Lewis hid behind his HBO contract saying he could only fight on HBO (It was later revealed that Lewis had a "one time out" clause that would have allowed him to fight on showtime PPV). He tied Tyson up in litigation and rather than stall his career and the mega millions he was making Tyson dumped the WBC belt (sound familiar) and pursued the fight with Holyfield. Lewis for the second time in his career picked the WBC belt out of the trashcan by fighting a crack head who lost his last fight (against a christmas tree) and Tyson went on to fight in the highest grossing PPV fight in history. People need to realise that Lewis manipulated the system as much or more than Tyson, Bowe or anyone else, the difference is he was so boring and such a low profile HW champ that nobody cared or paid any attention accept his fans and they were so ignorant they cheered anything he did.

So you would have me believe that Ruiz is so strong that he prevents fighters from moving away as he moves in? Since when does a fighter's moving toward you prevent you for moving away in order to maintain the right punching distance? Since Ruiz began moving forward? No amigo. What is happening is not Ruiz forcing your boys into clinches. Your boys are too big and strong to be forced in that way. What's really happening compadre Pedro Juan, is that Ruiz lands a punch, hurts one of your boys, and your boys take refuge under Ruiz's sobaco in order to rest. That's what's really going on. And if you doubt it look art the fights and see for yourself that your boys are cooperating in winding up in clinches in order to recover from just getting hit. As a matter of fact, Rahman is a prime example. Look at the way he cooperated and instead of side stepping or moving backwards he repeatedly went right along and sought the safety of the clinch. Simply put, it benefited him to go right along. That's the same reason why opponents would repeatedly waltz with Tysone in the middle of the ring. To recover.

Using ad hominem now huh? Ummm, OK. Professor? I see you never attended college. No thanx. I don't qualify in the buffoonery department. You might though. Who would want to watch something they don't like? I don't know? Since you are one of the self-proclaimed weirdoes that does that, you tell me. Sigh! As I said before, don't like? Don't watch. Too profound for you? Not boxing? Ah Heh! Heh! Heh! Ummmmmm, how come it not be boxing when Ruiz does it but it sho don be boxing when yo boy Ali don did it? Mmmmmmm? Nady does what? Enforce rules? Excuse a me but: Sure, sure! Uhuh! uhhuh! Sure! Like he enforced them in the recent Williams Vitali fight right? Say what? Skill? English is obviously not your native tongue is it? Look up the word in the dictionary and memorize its meaning. Otherwise you will continue to disgorge what the more knowledgeable on this site consider ignorance-derived drivel. You know amigo. the more you try to act educated the more you remind me of a famous Spanish saying that goes like a so. "El mono aunque lo vistan de seda, mono se queda." BTW I don't see you blaming the "refs" for not enforcing the rules in other fights. Ummmmm, why? Also, I found a number of basic grammatical errors in your writing that I could very easily focus on. But since that is not the purpose of this forum, I won't.

In my haste I forget to punctuate sometimes. Want proof? Read your own example.

Below are examples of how this biased thinking has been directed at Ruiz by anti-Ruiz fans.. There is a certain tendency among die-hard anti Ruiz fans to continually disparage him for getting quickly knocked out by Tua. Presumably, such a quick knockout proves conclusively that a boxer cannot qualify for greatness. However, these are the very anti-Ruiz die-hard fans who would swear by their mothers' graves that Louise, who was knocked out twice by fighters who hit much softer than Tua is one of the all-time greats. They also will go on to extoll such all time greats as Frazier, knocked out by Foreman twice and TKOD by Ali, Wallcott, knocked out by Marciano twice, Duran, knocked out by Hearns, and Joe Lewis, knocked out by Max Schmeling on June 19, 1936 and later on by Marciano. All these they praise for having been great. No mention all is made about the knockouts tarnishing their record. Even the hit-the-canvass-champ of all time, Floyed Patterson is called great and his many ridiculous trips the canvass aren't a factor affecting his so-called greatness. The style department is another double-standard area. Anti Ruiz fans habitually wax melodic about how Ruiz clinches, ties up, and in general doesn't permit his opponents to box. However, their aversion to clinching never prevents these same fans from calling Ali great. True, Ali, was a great boxer, nevertheless any honest viewer of his fights must admit that he resorted to cupping behind the neck and clinching. His fight against Chuvalo, is a prime example. Hit cup behind the neck to prevent counter punches ad infinitum. Against Frazier in Manila the same tactics were used. No protest from the fans and no points deducted. Ruiz does it, and the Nady-like scowls, screams, and hisses from offended irate fans can be heard for miles. Then there is the punching power issue. The Ruiz-can't-punch-his-way-out-of-a- paper-bag shpiel. Never mind the long list of early KOs and TKOs. Never mind that he floored a physically fit Johnson twice. Never mind that Ruiz managed to put iron-jawed Holy on the canvass and would have won by knockout if Holy had not resorted to wrestling, grabbing, in order not to fall. Never mind that other more vaunted fighters had failed to do what Ruiz did. These people must needs believe that Ruiz can't punch despite the overwhelming evidence tothe contrary. Then there is the low blows department that I mentioned earlier. I have repeatedly watched fights where boxers have gone down from low blows and the usual decent commentator response is: "Well, that is understandable! Getting hit low hurts like hell! The cup moves so the low doesn't have to be directly on the groin. Let the man take his time to recuperate. Wonder if he will be able to continue as before after this. Such a shot takes alot out of a fighter!" Ruiz gets hit low and it's: "He's faking it! He's milking this for all it's worth! That's an overreaction That wasn't really that low! The ref is letting him slide! He is taking too long to rest! He's trying to get hit low to force disqualification!" And other such emotionally-charged and irrational comments. As a fan one is forced to wonder what motivates this type of seemingly out-of-touch-with-reality mentality. It can't be because Ruiz is a foreigner could it? After all, he is an American citizen raised in Massachusetts. It can't be because he's ethnically a Puerto Rican--right? After all, they too are born as USA citizens and have fought and spilled their blood and sacrificed their lives in all the wars started or participated in by the USA--from W.W.I To W.W.II to Korea, to Vietnam, to the Gulf War--right? One wonders about this since it stirs the curiosity of any fan who is not blind to injustice in whatever guise it might happen to appear. One also wonders just how far down the chronological line this bias will continue to fester. Will its stench still permeate the halls of boxing fandom if Ruiz unifies the belts? Would it have ceased if he had already unified? Or would the same putrid, attitude have prevailed despite the unification. Considering the deeply entrenched, malignant, tendencies toward bias that I have witnessed ever since Ruiz "dared" to win part of the HW belt, I believe that it would.

Anyone can think himself qualified enough for practically anything. It happens all the time at the funny farms. Ruiz fans don't make the claims you say. So your examples are nothing more than perfect examples of lies. I suggest that you stop using straw man arguments. Be honest in your statements. It makes for credibility. BTW Well known by anyone familiar with basic reasoning. About your tongue-in-cheek accusation that I am confusing deduction with induction--why not explain yourself so I can be of help. Also, I don't need an article to teach me such a basic subject. But thanx anyway. Actually, to me it is quite patent that you misunderstood not only my explanation but the article you are referring to as well.

This is an accusation routinely leveled against Ruiz. That he doesn't box but merely wrestles his way to victories. But regardless of the conviction with which such accusations are repeated--just how much sense does it make? Not much if you really know how boxing matches are scored. Below I will list the factors that the judges consider when they give points to boxers. 1. Power punches connected. 2. Ring generalship 3. Overall punches scored 4. Who is controlling the action 5. Knockdowns Lets take the first one first. Simply stated you cannot pitter patter your way to a win. A boxer pitter pattering will not be given the credit that his opponent who is landing the big shots will. Why? Well, because the reason that boxers pitter patter is because they fear to commit. That's because commitment opens them up for counter punching. Pitter pattering is quicker and safer. But it also makes a bad impression. The second one, Ring Generalship is who is controlling the action. Is the boxer in control, or is he merely reacting ineffectively or barely surviving what his opponent does. Is he fleeing due to fear? Or is he circling to find the angles? If it is due to fear and ineffectual, judges will tend to look more favorably on the boxer taking the initiative. That's why Delahoya lost to Trinidad. Knockdowns of course are worth more than regular punches. A boxer might have lost the rest of the round but a knockdown evens the score or might put him ahead. Now, what does all this have to do with Ruiz? Well, plenty. There is nowhere any stipulation saying that boxers get points for wrestling. So when the scores are tallied, what is being counted or considered are the points enumerated above. Nothing more.

Obviously you either know absolutely NOTHING about boxing or else are handicapped in a way that I am not fully aware of yet. Otherwise you would not make such an ignorant statement as you just have. Evertyone even minimally familiarized with boxing knows that blocking and slipping are legal tactics whie the tactics that your boy Vitalis was using are not. Holding behind the neck and pulling a fighter down so that his legal punches go low is not. Neither is trying to hit a fighter who is clearly down as Vitali tried to do legal. Neither is hitting behind the head and pushing as Vitali did. Why such a big fella like Vitali who is clearly outclassing his opponent thinks he needs to fight dirty is waayyy beyond me. But even more disturbing is why a ref would think that such a big fella who is clearly outclassing his opponent needs extra ref assistance. BTW If you don't agree thatr what I am pointing out were violations then you agree with everything Vitali and Nady did. Actually, that you defend such clear violations by a Vitali and a Nady is not unexpected. To me it comes across as the "My-country-right-or-wrong but-my-country" bs in a fight ring microcosm. Also, your last statement is nonsensical.

Using ad hominem now huh? Ummm, OK. Professor? I see you never attended college. No thanx. I don't qualify in the buffoonery department. You might though. Who would want to watch something they don't like? I don't know? Since you are one of the self-proclaimed weirdoes that does that, you tell me. Sigh! As I said before, don't like? Don't watch. Too profound for you? Not boxing? Ah Heh! Heh! Heh! Ummmmmm, how come it not be boxing when Ruiz does it but it sho don be boxing when yo boy Ali don did it? Mmmmmmm? Nady does what? Enforce rules? Excuse a me but: Sure, sure! Uhuh! uhhuh! Sure! Like he enforced them in the recent Williams Vitali fight right? Say what? Skill? English is obviously not your native tongue is it? Look up the word in the dictionary and memorize its meaning. Otherwise you will continue to disgorge what the more knowledgeable on this site consider ignorance-derived drivel. You know amigo. the more you try to act educated the more you remind me of a famous Spanish saying that goes like a so. "El mono aunque lo vistan de seda, mono se queda." BTW I don't see you blaming the "refs" for not enforcing the rules in other fights. Ummmmm, why? Also, I found a number of basic grammatical errors in your writing that I could very easily focus on. But since that is not the purpose of this forum, I won't.

I had decided not to post at this site any longer. But then came across your ridiculous statements. So I will temporarily delay my exit to respond briefly. About your homo accusations? Sorry to disappoint you. I prefer women. My view on queers? Well, I won't be politically correct this time. I will be honest. I consider queers an abomination. I am what? A fan of Ruiz? I suppose I am a fan of Wiliams too simply because I pointed out the obvious? That's ridiculous! Actually, I don't really like Ruiz's manner of fighting. So I am not a fan of Ruiz per se. So you are confusing two different things here. Fandom for a person and fandom for a concept. What concept? Justice! Still unable to understand due to too much stagnant water on the brain? Well, then here is what you need to do. Get a basic education via remedial classes. If you mannage to pass those classes without seriously injuring yourselves, then come back a read my explanation again.

I am speaking clear basic conversational English. So I cannot make it any simpler for you than I have done in my previoius explanations. If indeed you are having difficulty following my line of clear reasoning, then perhaps it is a waste of time for you to read what I am saying. By your writing I can see that you are not totally illiterate. Certainly not a full-fledged retard although there are borderline cases which are hard to categorize. All I can say, actually, is that perhaps you are trying to read above your present level and this is causing the incomprehension you are constantly complaining about. I suggest that perhaps it is better for you to be kind to yourself and spare yourself the frustration and the waste of your valuable time.

My! My! My! Aren't we a bit feisty today! Let me clarify the issue in an effort to bring you back to reality assuming that you have not gone too far over the edge and are still capable of at least a little basic cogent reasoning. Right now, my friend, you are at a Ruiz fan forum. I will assume that you know this and knew it when you decided to participate here. After all, it is prominently posted and anyone coming here can readily see that this forum has the Ruiz name prominently displayed for all visitors to clearly see. Now, since this is a Ruiz forum specifically set up for Ruiz fans, what should you expect to find? Hmmmmm? Anti Ruiz comments predominating? Is that what you would expect to find on any other fighter's forum? Come now, be honest with yourself and give this some thought compadre. In any case, perhaps I should clear things up a bit for you so that the mental fog caused by your anti-Ruiz rage can lift a little and you can see perhaps a glimmer of some much-needed light. Personally, I refrain from participating in fan forums of boxers that I strongly disapprove of. You see, common decency requires that I refrain from going to that site with the sole purpose of degrading boxer. Why? Well, because at that site I will meet people who strongly disagree with my strong dislike and will contradict what I say. Now, here is where insanity might come in if we are not careful. Let's suppose that I did visit such a site and I ran across positive comments about that boxer from that boxer's fans? and I began taking offense and began demanding that such comments not be made. Then, of course, if I am unceremoniously categorized as a certifiable lunatic, I couldn't blame the person for thinking such a thing. After all, normal people expect these things at a fan site. Normal people either don't visit such sites if they don't wish to see such normal things, or else they put up or shut up. What normal people refrain from doing, bon vivant, is going to Larry Holmes sites, for instance, for the specific purpose of badmouthing Larry Holmes in front of Larry Holmes fans and then indecently demanding that Larry Holmes fans not defend Larry Holmes but that they keep their godamn mouths shut at the Larry Holmes site. That's what normal people don't do. Hope that helps. BTW Just because a person uses cogent reasoning doesn't mean that the person is claiming to be a logician. Also, please speak English. Their is no such adverb as "vomitous". And no, I never got a "D" I aced all my classes. Sorry!

I'll leave if the moderators tell me to leave, thank you.