MysticNinjaJay

You are a bruce lee hater playing im a fan of bruce lee but not sure how good he was game. If you think that then you're just beyond reasoning with. I'm more of a fan than you are. At least I try to have a realistic discussion about his fighting ability. You are just playing mind games because you are butt hurt the whole world thinks Bruce lee was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, with or without a source of bob wall interviews. There's nothing wrong with me fact checking. The whole world doesn't think Bruce Lee is one of the greatest fighters in the world. Have you ever seen a poll conducted by the whole world? In the realm of combat sports there seem to be a lot of mixed opinions on the topic and this thread is a prime example of that fact. Skipper Mullins said hed pick Lee in any situation. Don't you sometimes wonder why he said that? Do you ever wonder if Bruce lee sparred with Skipper and that's why he would say it. Skipper Mullins says he felt Bruce Lee's power and that he was incredibly strong for his size. This is consistent with sources I've read that put Bruce Lee in the 100th percentile of upper body strength so yes I would consider him to be a reliable source on the matter. He also said he didn't see him fight bigger men though he'd favor Bruce Lee in a street fight. So there are still question marks about Bruce's ability even with that information. You've got Delgado singing Bruces praises to the maximum as well yet you are wondering about his fighting skills, gimme a break will you? Bruce Lee got a lot of praise from his friends in the Martial Arts community. That doesn't mean there aren't still questions marks about his ability and there's nothing wrong about inquiring about those questions. From the evidence weve got most people conclude in a street fight bruce lee shuts his opponents down, and overwhelms them with skill and ability. ANd while doing that you wont discover how tough his chin is and silly things like that you keep mentioning, but it shows you his fighting skills which you keep going on about. You sound like you think Bruce Lee would be untouchable in a fight. That's impossible. If you hit him hard enough he would bleed or be knocked unconscious just like anyone else. We've got to hold Bruce Lee to the same standard as everybody else. He was not superhuman. Durability, Fight IQ and Heart matter in a fight. If Bruce was good enough to shut down any opponent on the street without getting hit I would be amazed but I imagine that against someone really skilled he would take some hits and his ability to take a hit and keep coming as well as how good of a strategist he was are legitimate questions. There was a poster on Sherdog named Flane Walker who says that he sparred with Bruce Lee regularly and gave him a bloody nose as well as took him to the ground with a sweep. He also says that he took damage from Bruce including a black eye. His posts were really interesting. http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=30078831#post30078831 Who knows if he's telling the truth but he challenges the myth that Bruce Lee was untouchable in a fight. You start threads pretending to wonder how bruce would do against a pro boxer on the street? You are trolling and stirring so stop being in denial. I'm not pretending anything and I'm not trolling. I've had enough of your insinuations and outright ridiculous accusation that I am a Bruce Lee hater trying to stir the pot. I have been open and respectful in this thread. I can't say the same for you. So basically, unarmed one-on-one combat is not a real fight? Lol. Get the f*ck outta here stupid. People have unarmed one-on-one fights everyday in every country across the world. If I stumble across you in a back alley, you're not gonna have time to run home and get your katana or call your uncle. You're going to have to use your human body to defend yourself, and you wont even know how to defend a basic leg sweep or takedown lol. You'll be on your back getting pounded screaming out, "wait wait this isnt a real street fight, I need my knife, somebody call my buddy big Mike so this can be real". Indeed. The claim that I'm enforcing rules on the fight scenario is false. I'm just controlling for variables. It was necessary for me to make the point of what kind of fight I'm talking about because some people thought I was talking about Bruce Lee in a Boxing match. The scenario I have in mind is a challenge match in an open space with no weapons, no referee, no interference from anyone else and no equipment (gloves, mouth piece, padding etc.) just a straight up one-on-one fight.

you must have missed the point, Bruce defeated a boxer, who competes, in high school when he was not the "BRUCE LEE" as everybody knows him later. Yes, that's equivalent to winning boxing gold medal. :boxing: The point isn't that Bruce Lee is a Boxing prodigy because he won an amateur high school tournament. The point is that he had experience with Boxing. He did well for a beginner. Then he went on to improve on his Martial Arts skills and incorporated Boxing techniques in to his training. He studied Boxers which also means he studied how to beat Boxers. We have one testimony of him actually getting the better of a Heavyweight Boxer in a demonstration and Bruce Lee on film explaining the mechanics of his fighting style. He never fought a professional Boxer but he trained to be able to beat any opponent in a real fight. Maybe I'm way off base here and there are good arguments for why he wouldn't beat a professional (elite) Boxer. Let's hear them.

Not sure you can put the word inexperienced and bruce lee in the same sentence really. Bruce lee was seriously experienced and realistic in real fighting. Oh I'm not saying he was inexperienced. He was a street fighter. He just didn't fight elite fighters on a regular basis like Mixed Martial Artists and Boxers do. Boxing is a more limited form of fighting but Mixed Martial Artists train in nearly everything Bruce Lee knew. I think he would lose to the elite fighters among them. Bruce lee certainly sparred with many world champions regularly so he knew where they were compared to himself for sure. I find this claim to be most intriguing. There's an interview circling the internet with Bob Wall who says that Bruce Lee sparred full-contact with world champion fighters and got the better of them. If this is true I think that Bruce Lee's fighting skills should definitely be held in higher esteem but unfortunately the interview came without a source. I know of one interview with Bob Wall who says that he and Bruce Lee sparred on the set of Enter the Dragon. He even says video of it exists but it's in the personal collection of someone who won't release it to the public. Jim Kelly said nobody could beat bruce lee in bruce lees era. No champion would beat Bruce, because Bruce lee was a level above. Yes, the words he used were "The Michael Jordan of sparring; beyond Jordan." I think that Bruce Lee could certainly lose a fight just like anyone else but it's interesting that men like Jim Kelly thought he was the absolute best of his era. Having never competed professionally his fighting skills will always be called in to question but we know enough about him to know that he was a highly skilled Martial Artist who could hold his own in a fight.

There you go again with your if Bruce lee did what Bob Wall claims he did? Always try to doubt it don't you? And there you go trying to underestimate Lee with your claims you didn't imply he wasn't considered a decent fighter by his peers? Cant you use the the term great? Does your jealousy mean you cant bring yourself to use that word. I can use the term great but your groveling for more respect for Lee is ridiculous. It is hard to have more credibility as a fighter than Bruce lee already has. He is the god of martial arts, a bit of a icon, legend and cult figure. People think Lee is superhuman almost and he is revered. He could have more credibility as a fighter if he competed professionally. Make no make I think that Martial Artists who don't compete are still good fighters but it's questionable how good. Competition allows us to see what fighters are truly capable of. I don't blame Bruce Lee for not being interested in the point fighting tournaments of his day because they weren't close to real fighting but without competing his own fighting skills are in question by many. I don't think that Bruce Lee was superhuman. It's not like he could bench press 10 times his bodyweight or run the 100 meter dash in 5 seconds. He was human and he was very fast and strong but not above and beyond everyone else. He didn't break any world records and some of the physical feats attributed to him are ridiculous but he was a very skilled Martial Artist. MMA fighters acknowledge Bruce lee was a great fighter, and for you to insinuate they haven't you are a bruce lee hater as ive said. I haven't heard many opinions on Bruce Lee as a fighter. Have you? Bas Rutten is the only one I've seen whose really talked about it in a serious manner. Most of the praise he gets is for his philosophy and influence on Martial Arts which was done through acting in movies not actually fighting. Although they know bruce lee was a great, great fighter, theyd still like to know how well he'd do in UFC or whatever. Obviously thinking he would do well if he trained for a while. Still doubting whether Lee sparred or fought champs outside tournaments? Dear, dear, you are a troubled soul. The only source I know of is that Bob Wall interview and that hasn't been verified. Other than that Bob Wall did say he sparred with Bruce Lee but he didn't say how well he did. why should I? People ass licking Lees abilities is common, and they have been doing it for 40 plus years. How much do you need? The whole world knows Bruce lee was a phenomenal martial artist and fighter. What will me giving you a quote do to make the world a better place? It would give you some credibility in this thread which you are currently lacking. Are you claiming Bob wall criticised Lee after Lee died? Taking posthumous cheapshots, while tip toeing around someone when they were alive rarely impresses anyone. I don't think it's a cheap shot but rather an observation. If that's the real Bruce Lee than there is nothing wrong with stating facts. You do value facts don't you? YOu are getting desperate now. When it comes to negative and positive quotes for Bruce lee you are heavily outnumbered. Positive comments as to how great bruce lee was is far superior to negative, so no wonder you are desperate and reaching. Norris don't street fight and neither did Lewis, so Bob is implying in karate. Forget what bob implies what would happen, and concentrate on rather what did happen as Bob said. Bob didn't imply one way or another what type of fighting he was talking about. He could very well have meant a fight with no rules. Maybe he meant Karate rules but that wasn't clear. Either way he said he didn't believe Bruce Lee would beat them in a fight. another black guy hating on another asian fighter? cant say im surprised. Racist trolls are not welcome in my thread.

A lot of ignorance and misrepresentation in this thread. Is TS asking whether Lee could defeat a pro boxer in a boxing match? Probably not an elite one. Which doesn't say anything about his skills as a martial artist, it just says that someone with little to no experience in a particular sport would likely lose to the best competitors in that sport. Hardly a scoop. As far as Lee being nothing more than an actor, I invite the people who say that to drop down and do 2 finger pushups, or do a V-sit. And then you can read interviews of martial arts champions who knew him and trained with him. Bruce himself would probably shake his head at all this talk about "could Bruce Lee beat so and so?" Who cares? Just remember him for the principles he stood for; self knowledge and continuous personal growth. I guess I should have clarified that I mean a fight with no rules. Let's say the fighters meet each other in a challenge match in an open space.

You'll find just about every MMA fighter was influenced by Bruce lee and acknowledge he was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived. Its just the anonymous individuals over the internet who create controversy. Look at vids of ANderson Silva, BJ Penn, Jon Jones talking about bruce lee. Never have I seen any name individual not think he was a great fighter. Maybe not everyone thinks he was unbeatable, but everyone without exception would say he was a great fighter, unless they are anonymous haters like yourself. Making would bruce lee beat a pro boxer on the street fight threads. Get outta here stirrer. Certainly Bruce Lee was an inspiration to many people including Mixed Martial Artists who got in to the sport because they grew up watching Bruce Lee movies. But none of them fought Bruce Lee or saw him fight. We have no video of Bruce Lee in a real fight so at best we can look at his attributes and listen to the people who actually knew him and trained with him. In case you didn't notice my opening posts on this thread attempted to make a case for Bruce Lee in a fight with a professional Boxer. While you ignorantly call me an anonymous hater I've actually made points for people to think about when considering how Bruce Lee would do in a fight. You try turn the fact that Skipper would pick Lee in any street situation into a negative, that's your problem. I most certainly did not. I only made the point that Skipper admitted to never seeing Bruce Lee fight bigger men. How could anyone other than a Lee hater do that? Only a Lee hater would even ever attempt it. He said he hasn't seen Lee beat any big people up, but hed pick Lee in a street fight against anyone, any size. He came to that conclusion probably from sparring with Lee, which Bob Wall backs up. Skipper didn't come to the conclusion by holding a kick shield for Bruce. Theres no question marks about what Skipper thinks so stop digging ahole for yourself. You don't care what people think is what we are getting at here. Skipper thinks Lee would beat any pro boxer, but you are not sure if Bruce could beat lets say Amir khan in a street fight to the death, anything goes. Stop trying to tell me what I think. The purpose of this thread is for people to share opinions on how they think Bruce Lee would do in a fight with world class Professional Boxers. It's a legitimate question and what you're doing is trying to stifle debate. Flane is dreaming, wouldn't we all like to have hit bruce. No witnesses im afraid. Lots of witnesses to bruce owning champs though. Bob Wall said it. Jim Kelly said. But you don't believe Bob Wall do you because he said Lee was so damn great. Because champs on the whole don't like admitting actors beat them, id tend to believe Bob Wall and Skipper Mullins, and Jim Kelly. But go wonder in your dream land if bruce lee could beat a pro boxer on the street. How do you know that Flane Walker is dreaming? Were you there? I don't know if he's telling the truth or not but he appears to be very knowledgeable and credible. We have as much evidence that Flane Walker hit Bruce as we have that Bruce beat world champions in full-contact sparring matches. I'm inclined to believe Bob Wall if that interview is authentic but so far no one has cited a source for it. Where is your source for Jim Kelly saying that Bruce Lee toyed with Bob Wall in sparring?

You said no rules and then straight after you quite clearly made one. No rules in a street fight, now go troll the boxing forum in sherdog. I said no weapons for an obvious reason. Bruce Lee can't pull nunchuks out of nowhere like in the movies. No one can bring a gun or knife. They're not fighting in a bar (open space) where someone can crack you over the head with a glass bottle or bash you in the face with a bar stool. Neither fighter can bring their buddies in to help them out (no interference). Did I forget anything? It's just a one-one-one fight with unarmed fighting skills. Pick a Boxer. Any Boxer. I don't care what era they're from or their weight class. How do you think they'd do against Bruce Lee? This thread would probably get wastelanded on Sherdog. There's no trolling going on by me. This is a serious and legitimate discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Bob Wall has told you how bruce lee did in fights so you know exactly how well Bruce lee did and would do. Jim Kelly also saw Bruce lee toy with Bob Wall in sparring, so Jim knows as well and he was going to mention it in his book. So that's how Jim Kelly has concluded how great bruce lee was and that Lee was untouchable. Jim would know, hes worked out with the Gracies afterall and its clearly Bruce lee who he rates and not the Gracies. Its just you don't want to believe Bob Wall, so take your anger out somewhere else. Back to sherdog. But you have a fairly good idea how well youd think Lee would do that's for sure. Youd put your money on Lee so why not leave it at that? My anger? Look, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm a Bruce Lee fan. I'm not trashing him. I put a lot of thought in to this thread and clearly I view Bruce Lee as an exceptional Martial Artist. I'm just curious about his fighting skills. When did Jim Kelly say that Bruce Lee toyed with Bob Wall in sparring? I'm not aware of him saying that. I did see the interview where he said Bruce Lee was the Michael Jordan of sparring. I forgot who he said he sparred with. I made a thread on Sherdog asking about the Bob Wall interview. So far no one has a source for it. Bob Wall did say that Bruce Lee toyed with an extra who challenged him on the set of Enter the Dragon and that the extra was talented. I don't believe I've been disrespectful to Bruce Lee in any way. This should be a friendly discussion where we speculate on his fighting ability and fact check our sources. You're being way too defensive over this.

haha im just researching that now - had no idea wesley snipes got given his just dues by Mike. He also challenged Joe Rogan to a cage fight and then backed out as the fight date got close. Guy is a moron. Wesley Snipes denies the fight happened and Mike Tyson also indicates that the fight didn't happen. Check out this thread. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14774983&postcount=27 http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14782122&postcount=60 Ragnar Lothbrok is butthurt because I made a fool out of him in that thread. I don't know what happened with the Joe Rogan and Wesley Snipes fight. I've never heard the story from either one just heard about it on the internet. I have a lot of respect for Wesley Snipes, he is a great representative of the Martial Arts.

there's no point arguing any of that with bruce lee's fans. they grew up salivating over enter the dragon and dragon ball z cartoons. these sods probably believe boxers and mma fighters have power levels. Not me (although Dragon Ball Z was the shit). I think that B-Bomber made a good point. Bruce Lee obviously had exceptional athleticism, skills and knowledge. But there are more variables in a fight like durability (chin), fight IQ and heart. Elite fighters often get tested by tough opponents and then the aforementioned attributes which you can't measure come in to play. In that scenario it is interesting to speculate about how Bruce Lee would hold up in a fight where he's truly tested. I imagine that his durability would really be tested especially against an opponent that was a lot bigger than him. We can't tell from his movies how much heart he had although he appeared to have a strong mind and while the choreography of his fight scenes was amazing a real fight isn't scripted. No Martial Arts actor is as good as they appear in the movies. The real Bruce Lee and how he'd do in a fight is an enigma, one that greatly intrigues me.

Who? Tony jaa.. Jet li... Jackie? Donnie yen? Jaa too acrobatic with not enough actual fighting application...jet not as dynamic...Jackie concentrated on being entertaining not enough application... Yen is good, one of my favorites, but still inferior to Lee. Which silver screen martial artist are you referring to that includes actual martial application as seamlessly as Bruce did? Donnie Yen and Jet Li are names I had in mind. Also Michael Jai White. He's a very underrated actor who I've been very impressed with lately especially in his movies about Martial Arts. Have you seen Blood and Bone or Never Back Down 2?

kung fu martial arts karate gay ass wesley snipes blade moves are for movies. they are not for real life fighting or sport fighting. they were exposed by the Gracie family and ju jitsu.... even though i might not like mma, im glad they put an end to all the kung fu karate hype BS. fck blade. fck wesley snipes. fck mr. miyagi. What the Gracies proved in their challenge matches is that grappling Martial Arts like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can neutralize striking disciplines including Boxing. Royce Gracie defeated Art Jimmerson, a professional Boxer at UFC 1. Is Boxing ineffective? Traditional Martial Arts disciplines such as Kung Fu, Karate and Tae Kwon Do can be used effectively as a base in Mixed Martial Arts when they are complimented by cross-training in other disciplines. Fighters such as Cung Le and Lyoto Machida have TMA backgrounds but they also have a ground game and a takedown defense. http://www.mmabay.co.uk/img/Machida%206.jpg Bruce Lee cross-trained in various disciplines before the UFC existed. He knew striking and grappling. He was a complete fighter.

Full Retard thread. Bruce Lee was an ACTOR. While I have enjoyed his movies, this myth upheld by the pyjama wearing fantasists that he could beat anyone on any day is simple deluded nonsense. I find the geeky types who are obsessive about Bruce Lee are usually emotionally damaged and spend too much time playing with nunchuks in the back yard. Bruce Lee was a Martial Artist turned actor and he never stopped training. In fact when he became a successful actor he was able to afford better training equipment and establish connections with other great Martial Artists. Bruce Lee instructed world Karate champions and sparred with them. He was also known for accepting challenge matches from other Martial Artists who wanted to test their skills against him. I'm not saying he could beat anyone on any given day. In fact I believe he would lose against elite Mixed Martial Artists but I think he would give Professional Boxers a good fight. I think he would whoop the average person including very fit and athletic people as well as most Traditional Martial Artists but there may also be guys out there who aren't involved in combat sports who could beat him including hardcore Martial Artists and street fighters.

Thanks for your opinion, i'll reserve judgement on whether I actually think you believe half of what you just said though. And let countless, countless people believe in the fact that Bruce lee would destroy any boxer not named Ali fast. And don't cry that countless think it, and in return no one will deny what you think. Bruce Lee beating Professional Boxers doesn't bother me the idea intrigues me which is why I made this thread. But of course you can't accept that I'm actually a Bruce Lee fan so you probably won't believe that. This is how I see Bruce Lee measuring up against various fighters: vs. Boxers - Bruce Lee's advantage over Boxers is knowing more fighting techniques. Bruce Lee studied Boxing so he knows a Boxers strengths and weaknesses. Elite Boxers have more fighting experience than Bruce Lee and some have superior athleticism while others have superior size. The Boxers of higher weight classes would give Bruce Lee the most trouble. vs. Mixed Martial Artists - Bruce Lee doesn't have the advantage of knowing more effective techniques to use against a Mixed Martial Artist. Mixed Martial Artists have the advantage of more fighting experience. The grapplers and wrestlers can take advantage of Bruce Lee's novice ground game. The Mixed Martial Artists in higher weight classes are a greater threat to Bruce. vs. Traditional Martial Artists - Bruce Lee beats the less experienced Traditional Martial Artists. The more street fighting experience the Martial Artist has the more difficult of a time Bruce Lee would have with them. The Martial Artists who can match or surpass Bruce Lee in athleticism and fighting experience are the ones who can beat him. The larger the Martial Artist the more difficult it is for Bruce Lee to fight them. vs. Street fighters - Bruce Lee beats most untrained street fighters. The advantage he has over them is actually training in the Martial Arts. The more experienced, athletic and larger the street fighter the more difficult a time Bruce Lee has with them. vs. Average Joe - Bruce Lee beats nearly everyone who is untrained and doesn't fight regularly. The more athletic and larger the person the more of a threat they pose but Bruce can beat just about anyone who doesn't train and doesn't fight. The run of the mill tough guy who doesn't hesitate to get in a fight is no match for Bruce Lee and only has a remote chance if they're in great shape.

He's only underestimated in boxing. But that's okay. The vast majority of boxing fans are stuck in a 20th century mindset, when people thought that you only needed to punch to be the best all-around fighter. As I said before, he's a God in the MMA world, which is what actually counts in the modern world. I post on Sherdog and have seen a lot of Bruce Lee threads. The perception of his skills are very mixed. Some people think he was good. Others say that without a fight record he didn't prove anything and question whether he had a takedown defense or a ground game. Both Boxing and MMA fans also question his durability. How well could he take a punch? Opinions on Bruce Lee seem to range from he was the best fighter ever to he could be beaten by any journeyman in a full-contact combat sport. As for his documented fights some people give more credence to the account of Wong Jack Man over the outcome of their fight. People question whether Gary Elms even existed. Someone told me recently they didn't believe that Bruce Lee had any street fights at all. One of the most interesting posts I came across on Sherdog was by a poster who identified himself as Flane Walker. He says he knew Bruce Lee and sparred with him regularly. Word is that he was able to get Bruce Lee to the ground in their sparring matches. Check out one of his posts: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/30078831-post222.html Hello: I am Flane Walker. I and Bruce Lee were friends in the Late 60's and early 70's. He trained hard and he had the money to do so. I sparred with him usually 3 or 4 times a week. He was fast and he was strong. He liked sparring with me because I was 6'3" tall and weighed 214 lbs. I worked out a lot also. Now for the people who think Bruce was undefeatable, he was just a man. He got his points, and I got mine. I did take him down with a sweep, but it was nothing spectacular. I really do not know why that has even come up. I bloodied his nose once too. But he popped me in the ear, and he gave me a black eye. Just training. I will not brow beat the name of Bruce Lee. He is not here to defend himself, and that would simply be dishonorable. Some have said, I came out of the wood work. I was in Blackbelt magazine in 1975. I have been in Karate illustrated 4 times, Black belt 6 times and various other magazines through the years. I was personal friends with Edwin Hamile (president of JKA) and taught at his Dojo in Temple City. My best friend is Tiger Yang of Moo Yea Do and I was vice president of his organization for 3 years. I was extremely good friends with Bong Soo Han, and trained with him for a number of years. I started martial arts lessons under my father in 1955. I continued to train under his instructor in Southern Calif. in 1967, that's how I met Bruce Lee. I trained a little with Ark Wong who was good friends with my master. I also trained under Chin Ik Wu of Wu Tai Chi. So I come out of the woodwork? I beg your pardon. Who are YOU! I have been here. I will continue to be here. I am now in Houston Texas. If you want to work out, contact me at fwalker@bigskytel.com. We will see if I can still move a little. I have fought this damned fight for 38 years, and I am sick and tired of it. Stop talking, come by and I will show you how an old grey haired man can move. Flane Walker I find the Bob Wall interview to be really interesting. The one where Wall says Bruce Lee sparred full-contact and got the best of Karate world champions. Unfortunately it came without a source but it looks real to me. There's an interview with Jim Kelly where he describes Bruce Lee as the Michael Jordan of sparring. There's only one public video in existence of Bruce Lee sparring that I know of which purportedly feature Bruce Lee vs. Louis Delgado. You don't see much and they are wearing a lot of padding. I don't even know who is who but here it is: MMA fans love him because he was the god of tma which a lot of those people grew up on. Besides never have been a professional fighter he also didn't know much about grappling. Oh you mean there is a picture of him doing an armbar?...oh ok he was the greatest of all time then... How embarrassing for MMA to have him in their new game. Actually Bruce Lee knew a lot about grappling. He trained with Gene Lebell and incorporated 33 grappling moves in to Jeet Kune Do. You can see grappling in his movies such as the opening fight scene in Enter the Dragon and the fight scene with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in The Game of Death. If you don't know who Gene Lebell is he's a national champion Judoka who defeated a Boxer in an MMA style matchup. I think it's great that Bruce Lee is in the new UFC game. I think the game is going to sell well because of him. So many people want to play as Bruce Lee.

Interesting Bruce Lee claim I've been looking for a way to measure my punching speed and power. I heard that Bruce Lee himself had his speed measured. According to Jesse Glover in his book Bruce Lee: Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee was able to land a punch at 500ths of a second (0.05 seconds). That translates to about 40 mph. Ricky Hatton had his speed measured by scientists and had an average speed of 25 mph. Chad Dawson had his punching speed measured by Sports Science at 30 ft/sec (20 mph). So Bruce Lee had a punching speed significantly greater than some elite professional Boxers. :boxing: By the way has anyone seen this product?

I don't really place much emphasis on eyewitness accounts of Bruce to determine if he could have killed a guy, ect. I am a big proponent of judging form with my own eyes. I agree. Eye witness accounts are good especially if there is consistency in the statements but nothing beats witnessing something yourself. Bruce had impeccable form. He truly was a marvel in that regard. His footage on the heavy bag is mocked because he swings from the waist and has a "jumpier" style than is typically accepted in boxing. He passes the eye test to me though. Know who else had a jumpy swing from the waist style? Naseem Hammed. I think people look at Boxers as the standard when judging Bruce Lee's punches on the heavy bag. He was practicing the Wing Chun straight blast not trying to punch like a traditional Boxer. Also discussions of whether Bruce had a chin are ultimately moot for street fighting.. He always preached defensive responsibility.. Either outmaneuvering or intercepting an opponent's strikes, then retaliating in kind. With the speed and dynamic explosiveness he was working with, this could all happen in a half a second or so... He was big on using maximum force and any tactic to end a fight as soon as possible. The philosophy being: The longer you are in a fight the more probable of sustaining an injury that degrades performance. Bruce Lee intended to end fights quickly but that's not always practical. I believe Mike Tyson said that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Bruce Lee could have encountered someone who could take his best shot and deliver one of his own. If that happened his durability would be tested as well as his heart. We don't know what that aspect of Bruce Lee's fighting ability was like. When comparing him to larger and equally skilled opponents his durability is especially relevant. Too much debate is dedicated to the basic question "was Bruce a badass?" But, One final piece to this puzzle is fight choreography. There is a reason Bruce insisted on doing all of his own fight choreography in his movies. No one, to date, has managed to put so much actual martial application in a movie's fight sequences as Bruce did. There is a reason for that. Life imitates art and art imitates life. That's enough for me. There's a couple of good Martial Artists in Hollywood who are comparable to Bruce Lee. I think he paved the way but let's give credit to the other movie stars who have done their own fight choreography and looked great doing it. :)

You are a dimwit, you are not allowed to punch to the back of the head in mma either. You cant headbutt, break fingers, bite, several strikes are illegal whilst your opponent is on the ground, etc, etc. As you can see there are many rules in mma as well, which means that it isnt real street fighting. Obviously they're both combat sports with rules. MMA is closer to a real fight than Boxing. In a street fight between a Mixed Martial Artist and a Boxer the Mixed Martial Artist has the clear advantage, especially on the ground. I think that Bruce Lee was very close to being the complete fighter that Mixed Martial Artists are. What he lacked was the experience of fighting elite competition on a regular basis. For that reason I think he would lose to elite Mixed Martial Artists today but he would have some advantages over an elite Boxer in a street fight.

MysticNinjaJay is a troll from the Sherdog MMA forums Just saving you guys some effort lol @ those of you who actually agreed some random actor would fair well in boxing I'm not a troll and I've been open about being a veteran poster on Sherdog. And for the last time this thread is about Bruce Lee vs. a Professional (elite) Boxer in a REAL fight. No rules. Think of it in terms of a challenge match in an open space. No weapons. No referee. No gloves. No one can interfere. Just a good old fashioned one-on-one fight.

lol bruce is an actor not a fighter So you don't think he could fight? When people say Bruce Lee is an actor not a fighter I always counter with, "He was a Martial Artist turned actor." So Martial Artists who don't compete in combat sports can't fight? Bruce Lee wasn't Adam Sandler. He wasn't Arnold Schwarzenegger. He wasn't a comedic actor and his muscles weren't just for show. He trained to fight and he took it seriously. I have no doubt that he could fight. The question is how good was he?

Right so not other than one if Bruce Lee's friends then? Good so still no Gary Elms sighting. What kind of evidence would convince you of Gary Elms' existence? A picture? A video interview? He encountered Bruce Lee before he was famous and as far as we know never accomplished anything in life that would raise his profile beyond competing in high school Boxing tournaments in Hong Kong.

Well, not really, as you seem to have a fear that because Jim Kelly said Lee was untouchable, and Bob Wall saying Lee beat champs with ease, people will think Bruce Lee is unbeatable as a result. You have made it obvious on many occasions that you dont want people to think Lee was unbeatable or untouchable. All lies. Believe whatever you want. It seems that you're too much of a fanboy to listen to reason. I'm a fan but I'm trying to be as objective as possible on this issue. Your obviously aware that is a hardcore that do think like that. So you are full of contradictions and all over the place. Then you get defensive with and say its heavily mixed opinions? As far im concerned some people are so spiteful towards Lee that they haven't even earned the right for people to believe their opinion is genuine. So because some underestimate Lee, your response is try to underestimate Lee even further, by saying what you say. Don't go around saying you don't underestimate Bruce again, because millions and millions will disagree with you. And then you will come back with people are overating Lee, like a vicicious never ending circle. JUst get off your crusade you are fighting a losing battle. I've made my points very clearly. I think that Bruce Lee while a talented Martial Artist was not the best fighter in the world but certainly better than a lot of the haters think. People are both overestimating him and underestimating him. I don't believe I've done either. Stop crying a large portion of the human population think Lee is the big daddy when it comes to fighting. A large portion of the human population don't have an informed opinion on the matter. They can't articulate their views on the subject and they aren't involved in this discussion any way. Stop appealing to popularity. I don't think I care enough about what you think to provide a source. That reflects poorly on you then. At least I gave you an opportunity to provide one. Because you will think what you think anyway. Peter archer saying Bruce lees speed and athletism was too much for Bob Wall, isn't really any more ground breaking news than what Bob Wall has claimed so I don't feel urgency to go throught hundreds and thousands of magazines to prove a point to you. Speaking of Bob Wall here's something he said about Bruce Lee that actually comes from a verifiable source. From the Deadly Hands interview: http://issuu.com/illmatical/docs/bobwall Wall: But Bruce felt threatened because he knew there were at least a couple dozen of us who were at least as fast or faster than him, and could hit as hard or harder. But see, he had this basic insecurity; he'd never been a world champion. He'd never competed. So here he was with real world champions and there was that difference. "Gee, I think I'm as good as you are, but you've done it and I haven't." Deadly Hands: That is a very different view of Bruce Lee than many promulgate... Wall: Bruce was a supreme egotist. Look. I liked Bruce. He and I were good friends. But I am also a realist about all my friends. Now, I really liked Bruce, in spite of his ego problem. I've never said this in an interview before because I felt well, he's gone. Might as well say nice things. And I'm not saying anything bad about him now. It was just a matter of creativity. Bruce had this intense creativity but he was very, very insecure. He had no confidence. What I'm telling you are the facts. What has been printed is mostly mythical, wonderful stuff. He was just insecure. He'd never competed, though we all felt he was good enough to become a lightweight champion. At 136 pounds he sure wasn't going to take and beat any Joe Lewis or Chuck Norris. But in order to be a world champion you also have to lose. Name me a champion and I'll tell you who he lost to. We've ALL lost. But Bruce didn't want to have an official loss on his record. Now these are Bob Wall's words and he made 4 interesting points: 1. Bruce Lee was threatened by the world champions he worked with. 2. Bruce Lee had an ego and didn't want to challenge himself for fear of losing. 3. A lot of what has been printed about Bruce Lee is mythical and wonderful. 4. Wall doesn't believe that Bruce Lee would have beaten bigger world champions. Now you'll probably dismiss this as just bitter talk like Joe Lewis or Vic Moore's comments. Me? I'm prepared to take the good with the bad. I'm interested in the real Bruce Lee and his real fighting skills not a mythical Bruce Lee manufactured by Hollywood that a lot of people buy in to. Bruce Lee was in fantastic shape and a highly skilled Martial Artist. But he wasn't a professional fighter and he was a small man. I don't think he was the best fighter to ever live. It may upset you to hear that but that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Just don't cry about large portions of humanity thinking Bruce lee was the business when it came to unarmed combat. They don't care what you think, so return the favour. Stop whining about me giving my opinion on the matter. I have a right to do that.

Lol Here is a video of the Gracie's themselves and Dana White saying that Bruce is the father of MMA. Ouch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2m3U25Qj7U I think "Father of MMA" is a subjective term with no real value. Bruce Lee can't take full credit for the sport of Mixed Martial Arts. He can get credit for creating his own Martial Art that is a complete fighting system that addresses all of the ranges of combat we see in MMA. I think he was ahead of his time and even ahead of the Gracies because the Gracies tried to prove the superiority of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu whereas Bruce Lee didn't believe in styles. Jeet Kune Do was a Martial Arts philosophy rather than just another style. He believed in learning all the useful techniques and dispensing with anything that wasn't useful. Bruce Lee liked Boxing so I think he would have loved MMA as a sport but what he was interested in was scientific street fighting not combat sports. I think Helio Gracie might be more deserving of the term "Father of MMA" because he actually competed and started the old Vale Tudo competitions that were the basis for the UFC and the formation of the modern sport Mixed Martial Arts.

where are your links, evidence that's what mike said about the situation? he certainly could have said it to cover for snipes career which was big at the time. and yes, i hope people go to that thread so they can see mysticninjaJay's cooly sucking off wesley snipe's karate c*ck. My source is Mike Tyson's book Undisputed Truth. I got this quote from Google Books: I spent a lot of time in L.A. in the late '80s. I had an apartment in Century City off Wilshire. A friend of mine was christening is boat and he had a party where I met this beautiful girl named Hope. She was with a girlfriend of hers and they arrived near the end of the party when the food had run out. I was sitting at a table with a big plate of food in front of me, so Hope walked up to me out of the blue and went in to a great Andrew Dice imitation. "Look, my friend will blow you if you buy dinner. Me and my friend are starving." I thought she was hilarious. I invited them to pull up a seat and I shared my food with them. I didn't get any feeling that she wanted to be intimate with me so we just became running dogs. She had a lot of girlfriends and I would say, "Hope, I really like that girl a lot." So she hooked me up. I became a big brother to her. She was always having problems with men. I would take one look at a guy and tell her, "Hope that guy's gay," or, "This guy will never care about you." I was really good at seeing through people's bullshit. Except for the women in my life. We became close. Hope was going to college then and she didn't have much money, so I let her stay in the spare bedroom in my apartment. But we were just platonic friends. No one could believe it because Hope was so hot. "Mike, you're fucking her. I know you are," all of my friends would say. "I saw you fuck that ugly fat bitch, you got to be fucking this one." I became super protective of Hope. One of our favorite places to go was this club called RnB live. That was where Hope bumped in to Wesley Snipes. She started dating him while I was out of town. When I got back to L.A., she came to me crying. Wesley had broken her heart; he didn't want her anymore. "See, Hope, this is what happens when you mess with those kinds of men in your life. You need a straight guy," I told her. But Hope she didn't want to hear that. She wanted to hear "Why are you crying, Hope? I'm going to kick his ass." Hope didn't get what she wanted from me, so she said to me, "Oh, and Wesley didn't get why I was, with you. He said, 'What are you doing with a guy like Tyson?' to me." I knew that was bullshit. A few days later I made plans to meet Hope at RnB. I sat next to her and asked her how school was, when we saw Wesley Snipes walk in. I excused myself and walked over to him. Wesley looked up, saw me, and panicked. "Mike, please don't hit me in my face, that's how I make a living," he said. "Man, don't worry about that thing with Hope. She's just hurt." We both laughed about it. So now you're saying that Wesley Snipes AND Mike Tyson are lying?! :eek: Yeah I bet he was just covering for Snipes' career which he cared oh so much about. So much so that he challenged him to a fight in a bathroom and viciously knocked him out. :rolleyes: Or maybe you're finally prepared to deal with the most likely situation which is that Rudy Gonzalez is just a liar who made up a story to help sell a book.

Lee could obviously fight, but it's his screen presence, charm, speed, ripped body and timing that made him the legend he is, we'll never know how good he was and most sources put him down as a being a gd street fighter, and u know the standard thug in the street is prob not trained to pro boxer lvl. Lee against a pro boxer....who knows?! Let the man RIP It's fun to speculate. Bruce Lee can not rest in peace. He's been immortalized. People are going to talk about him for years and years. He died in his prime. We never got to see him grow old and see his physical abilities decline. That image of Bruce Lee as the cocky badass, the invincible Martial Arts icon who revolutionized the world's perception of Martial Arts is going to live on. I enjoy having intelligent conversations on this subject with people who are able to distinguish fantasy from reality. We know that Bruce Lee was just a man. He couldn't beat up a room full of Black belts. He couldn't beat any man in 60 seconds. He could lose a fight just like any one. The question is how good was he? Well truly we'll never know but it is fun to imagine how good he was based on all of the facts available.

obiously, there are some terrible boxers out there Bruce Lee vs. elite Boxers with no rules. That's what I had in mind when I made this thread.

Michael jai white is better than Wesley... About on par with JCVD to me. Both karate guys. So it fits. Machida has shown karate can be used as a base to fight effectively. Most intriguing to me about Bruce is the combination of physical specimen, long range techniques (kicks, leaping strikes) and of course wing chun technique that would make him a nightmare to engage at close range. Jai White is good, in a classic karate kind of way.. But doesn't have the same diversity of technique as Bruce had. At least to me. Michael Jai White has all of that minus the Wing Chun, plus he trained with professional Boxers and Mixed Martial Artists. He's added Mixed Martial Arts to his arsenal which you can see displayed in the videos I mentioned. Bruce Lee was a great pioneer and inspiration for the Martial Arts community. I think more entertaining Martial Arts movies have come out since his time and some Martial Arts movie stars do have the complete package but Bruce Lee will always get respect as the first of his genre to really become a breakthrough success.

I distinctly recall you posting troll threads in the politics subforum, along with this exact same thread multiple times, which was usually moved into the "Wasteland" (garbage/spam) subforum. But whatever toots your horn. I'm not a troll. Many people have had serious threads put in the wasteland. I've made other threads about Bruce Lee which you can look up but not this exact thread.

You are a funny guy. All this time we are led to believe Bruce lee was phenomenal an amazing athlete with so much knowledge and ability, and you conclude from what you know about bruce he might be able to beat a pro boxer? At least a better chance of beating a pro boxer than lets say Anderson Silva or Jon jones. I don't know what all the fuss is about bruce lee is if that's the case, if I was to listen to you. Might have a good chance at beating a pro boxer in the street........sounds rather human and average to me bruce lee. Professional Boxers are tough. They're in peak physical condition and trade punches to the head and body for a living. If Bruce Lee could beat an elite Professional Boxer that would be very impressive. No you haven't really giving an opinion. You asked a question and rather sat on the fence as to what you thought personally ie, whether Lee would beat a elite pro boxer in the street. This is what I said at the end of my opening posts: I think these facts and observations make a good case for Bruce Lee being capable of beating even the most high level of Boxers. Bruce didn't need to compete to prove that he was a great Martial Artist. The way he trained and what he studied indicate that that his skill level was very high. In the older thread the topic starter pasted an interview with Bob Wall which says that Bruce Lee sparred with and defeated Karate world champions. If he was that good surely he could hold his own with Professional Boxers as well. That doesn't sound like an opinion to you? You conclude Bruce most likely was a great fighter, but just not a great fighter who could beat a elite pro boxer on the street? I think that we don't know and can never know unless we saw him actually fight but given his athleticism, skills and knowledge he could be competitive with a Professional Boxer. The bigger and stronger the Boxer the more difficult the fight would be but I believe Bruce Lee had the tools to shut a Boxer down. People have given accounts of what happened when Lee sparred or fought. He shut people down according to Bob Wall. So why couldn't he do that to a pro boxer? Why couldnt you assume he'd do that to a boxer? We don't need to know bruces durability and heart in a hypothetical circumstance with a boxer on the street. That's even irrelevant. A boxer wouldn't pose those questions of Bruce. No one is untouchable, not even Bruce Lee. If he got hit in the face that would answer questions about his durability and his ability to fight through adversity would show us his heart. We don't know the answers to those questions and won't get answers. My opinion on that is that Bruce Lee could get knocked out by bigger, stronger Boxers but he might have the tools to shut them down. I have got this in a magazine, id have to look it up, you are quite suspicious, mistrustful though aren't you, which is the signs of jealousy. Shouldn't try deny that. There is nothing to be ashamed of. If that's how you are towards Bruce that is how you are. You are annoynomous so you haven't got a problem. It's not that I'm not trusting I just value sources. If you could supply such a source I could also use it in future discussions about Bruce Lee. Understand that I actually want to believe that Bruce Lee was the badass Martial Arts legend he's been hyped to be but first and foremost I want the truth. If there were sources for him defeating world champion fighters in sparring matches I would be thrilled to have that information. You don't get MMA fighters publicly say things like I don't think Bob Wall said that I cant find source for it type things or wondering if Bruce lee could beat a boxer. Ive youtubed it and most MMA fighters talk about how amazing Lee was. I haven't seen too many MMA fighters debate Bruce Lee's fighting skills. Have you heard what Bas Rutten had to say about it? Bas Rutten says if we resurrected a prime Bruce Lee and put him in an MMA fight right off the bat he would lose. This is coming from a die hard Bruce Lee fan who admits he got involved in fighting because of Bruce Lee. But then he goes on to say that give him a short time to train (half a year to a year) he would do good because he was a genius when it came to fighting. I think that's reasonable. Bruce Lee didn't live in our era. Martial Arts has evolved since the 1960s and 1970s. Professional Mixed Martial Artists have the benefit of full-contact sparring, modern fitness training and well-rounded skills, plus they train with other world class fighters and compete for a living. Bruce Lee was ahead of his time but what he lacked is challenging himself against top competition. Even if the claims of him beating Karate world champions in full-contact sparring is true Mixed Martial Artists are a much higher caliber of fighter than anyone Bruce Lee would have faced while he was alive. I saw the documentary I am Bruce Lee which featured a lot of Mixed Martial Artists all of whom praised Bruce Lee. But I don't think anyone was asked how he would do in a real fight. They praise him for being such an inspiration to them but few have answered that question. So as I said, anonymity allows you behave in a way ordinarily you wouldn't. I'm very honest and an objective analyst. If you talked to me in person I would be straight with you about what I thought. For me the biggest question about Bruce Lee in a real fight with professional fighters is his own fighting experience. Sparring isn't a real fight and the best Martial Arts champions of his era competed in point fighting. This is what those fights looked like: In fact this is what the first full-contact Kickboxing match looked like.
Joe lewis vs greg baines First Kick-Boxing... by usakaratestory Notice that Joe Lewis and his opponent still fight like point fighters. This is a guy who was actually trained by Bruce Lee and credits him for improving his technique. That makes me wonder how Bruce Lee would have fought. We don't have any video of these sparring matches so we don't know what Bruce Lee in a real fight even looks like. Bruce Lee himself was disappointed in his performance against Wong Jack Man which was a no-holds-barred challenge match. I'm sure he improved after that but he didn't regularly fight anyone of a high caliber, just got in to occasional street fights with nobodies and challengers of unknown skill level. I think he loses to Mixed Martial Artists because they have more well-rounded skills but is more competitive with Boxers because their skills are limited to punching. That's my opinion. I'd like to believe Bruce Lee was as good as it gets but like everyone he had limitations.

People need to specify when they say "Pro Boxer". Are we taking about a World Champion or someone who found a Boxing manager off the streets and is fighting for 500 bucks at Native American Casinos? I'm talking about world champions. Bruce Lee against any Boxer, from any weight class in any era. Its still killing you what Bob Wall said about bruce lees fighting ability doesn't it, how bruce lee beat him with ease. The question of how good Lee was is in your own head only. Bruce lees skills are beyond reproach. The only question people have of Lee is they wish they could have seen him in a karate tournament and wondered what could have been? His skills aren't doubted......beyond reproach, revered for his abilities. No one doubts he had exceptional Martial Arts skills they just wonder how good of a fighter he actually was. After seeing so many Martial Artists get their ass kicked in real fights you do have to question the ability of Martial Artists especially if you haven't seen them fight. All MMA fighters know Bruce lee was a great fighter and bad ass. They wish their peers would talk about them like bruce lees peers do for him. But there is so much more to bruce lee, that talking about how bad an ass he was is a little less interesting than other things about bruce lee. Question: How do you think Bruce Lee would do against modern Mixed Martial Artists in a real fight? YOu so desperately wish the Bob Wall interview never existed don't you, or doesn't exist, just like a bet you wish Lee wasn't born. Bruce lee haters lack credibility with their online anonymous antics. Forgive me for thinking Lee was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived because I heard his peers think he was. I don't lack credibility, you do, and you know it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wZ2MlK69D8 Now you're just being melodramatic. :rolleyes: I haven't said anything in this discussion that could call my credibility in to question. You have. I asked you for sources and you made excuses for not providing them. That makes you look dishonest. Still upset at Wall saying Lee beat him with ease are you? When did he say that? Still upset that there are books with hundreds and hundreds of pages of quotes from his peers saying how bad he was are you? Nope. I've read Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I'm currently reading Bruce Lee: Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do. I love reading about Bruce Lee. Heres a jim Kelly interview saying nobody could beat bruce lee and he was untouchable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wZ2MlK69D8 Thank you. That's all you had to do was provide a source. Realistically no one is untouchable. I believe Jim Kelly when he says Bruce Lee was the man in sparring but in a real fight he could be hit just like anyone. The question is how high caliber of a fighter was he? Could he beat Boxers? I think so. Mixed Martial Artists are another story mostly because of the ground game but I think Bruce Lee was one of the best fighters in the world during his time.