Why could Ali not deal with Ken Norton?

Let’s not forget about Ken Norton’s cross-arm guard defense. Which was also a variation of the Philly Shell/ Shoulder roll defense which always gave Ali fits.

Norton was a skilled, strong, athletic guy. His main weakness was to big punchers, which Ali was not.

Disagree, MGK scored a knockdown and did better than expected but Eminem came back and got the late KO :boxing: Agreed. MGK fought out of his skin though and made a fist of it in the song battle. Maybe a second bowl of cereal would have fuelled him to victory. Nash out

Once upon a time, in an era far far away, the best fought the best. At their very best.

Ken Norton is a all-time great Heavyweight fighter. Stylistically? I believe he had enough physical strength, combined with elite level skills 'And a awkward style defensively to compete with Muhammad Ali'. Muhammad Ali fought a peak Ken Norton three times, and immediately made the rematch after losing the first fight. Muhammad Ali won the second fight for sure, it is the third fight which 'Was the closest fight in my opinion'. Norton vs Ali 'Ali vs Norton, was a underrated trilogy. And it was one of the most historically significant battles of the 70s, because? It was during the rematch were Muhammad Ali realized that he needed to alter his style, in order to stay competitive within the Heavyweight Division'. The conditioning of both fighters for the second fight was supreme, I have always suspected that both Norton and Ali may have been slightly over trained. Note: Ken Norton and Joe Frazier were very durable fighters, but? Their durability had a threshold 'And once that threshold was breached, that seemed to be catastrophic for them during fights. If a fighter could not breach that threshold, then it was extremely difficult to beat them'. Ken Norton proved this vs Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes 'Check out round 15 of Holmes vs Norton, that fight was the coronation of Larry Holmes. They say that the 1970's was when Heavyweight Giants walked the face of the earth, that night Larry Holmes fought one of the Heavyweight Giants of the 1970's in Ken Norton. All-time great fight'. Muhammad Ali was a solid Heavyweight puncher, was proven by his resume 'Muhammad Ali was the only fighter to deck and stopped George Foreman. Muhammad Ali decked and stopped Ron Lyle, and was the only fighter to knock out Oscar Bonavena'. Muhamad Ali could deal with Ken Norton, they fought three times 'And Ali won two fights. But? Like I stated before, if you do not breach Ken Norton's durability threshold then most likely it will be very difficult for the opponent to beat him'. I don't really think there is any Heavyweight active now, with the combination of power and skill to breach Ken Norton's durability threshold 'Anthony Joshua would be the closest fighter to having those combined abilities'. Stylistically Ken Norton in my opinion would be a extremely difficult fight for Oleksandr Uysk, it is quite clear to see which type fighters would challenge Uysk. To conclude: If a fighter was unable to break the durability threshold of Ken Norton 'Then it was most likely going to be extremely difficult to beat him. Norton had a combination of brute strength, durability, solid jab, and power'. I.E Tyson Fury's durability threshold can be breached, but? Historically every time Fury's durability threshold has been breach 'That is when Fury's recuperative powers take over'. This is what I mean by a durability threshold, certain fighters have a very high durability threshold but then their recover powers are maybe not as high'. Muhammad Ali, Evander Holyfield are fighters who also had top level durability combined with recover powers etc.

It was a battle of left hands. I thought Ali had a slightly fast left but Norton was a quicker thinker. Norton was also lighter on his feet. Both qualities made for a tuff fight for Ali. Norton was also smaller. Good, Smaller men can do things that bigger men can never do. Seen small little 120 pounders in the gym embarrass175 men. I hated sparring smaller men. Id rather get in their with big men cause 95% of big men are slower than me. Bigger men also get tired faster.

Let's face, Ken Norton was nothing special, and let's get it right, forget the two robberies, Norton won 3-0, that being said, when you look at their careers, despite losing 3-0, Ali is clearly the better boxer. is this just a classic case of styles make fights? Just like MGK's surprise unaminous decision victory over Eminem in a rap song battle. Eminem is much better than MGK, but head to head, couldn't deal with his shovel or cereal. Just a bad style match up. Nash out Disagree, MGK scored a knockdown and did better than expected but Eminem came back and got the late KO :boxing:

In their third fight at Yankee stadium. Ali got off to a very slow start. He stood flat-footed by staying off the ropes for most of the fight with his legs standing very far apart. As he attempted to KO Norton in the opening rounds but failed in doing so and after 9 rounds had been competed. Ali found himself trailing badly on two of the official judges scorecards 7-2 and 6-3-1 on the referee’s Arthur Mercante Sr’s scorecard. Ali swept the next six rounds on all three of the official scorecards including Mercante Sr’s in order to retain his heavyweight crown. The last round in which Ali won was the decisive round. Whoever had won that round would have won the fight. It was a very close and controversial fight in which most ringside boxing observers at the time thought that Ken Norton had deserved and done enough to win.

how was norton nothing special? so silly. beats ali when he was #1, beats jimmy young when he was #2, bobick who was #4, quarry when he was top 10, and loses a razor close fight to holmes when holmes was #1. he was a top contender, not some random guy exactly. imagine if norton had the nod against holmes and ali 3. we'd be talking about norton being an ATG.

He fought porter as a teenager 50 years ago that is irrelevant cope.

not his style. couldn't walk down porter He fought porter as a teenager 50 years ago that is irrelevant

It was Eddie Futch. He had Ali’s number and knew how to train his fighters to beat him. Norton got robbed in at least one of their rematches but I thought he swept the trilogy. Great athlete but limited as a boxer.

I read an article years ago that Eddie Futch taught Ken to out jab Ali. He told Ken if he saw a jab coming or thought it was, to immediately fire one back.

I think you're cracking Norton up to be more than he actually was. He was 1-2 against Ali, won a close one, lost a close one, and lost by UD, hardly a robbery. His biggest problem was consistency, having wins against top fighters like Quarry and Young, and being blown out by others like Shavers (who Quarry KO'd) and Cooney who obliterated him and sent him into retirement. It was just a case of what Norton was going to show up that day.

Norton had an awkward style, the size, enough handspeed, and the timing to constantly disrupt Ali's rhythm.

One reason was that Norton was able to neutralize Ali’s jab. Ali admitted that Norton would have given him fits even prior to his 1970s career.

Nah bivol is low on power as it is at heavy usyk can walk through him not his style. couldn't walk down porter

Ali is a light hitter whose main advantage was speed. The difference between him and Norton is their chin. Norton matched Ali's speed and Ali couldn't KO him. However Ali could take Foreman and Shaver's punch. Norton couldn't. This is the same reason I think guys like Breidis gives Usyk a tougher fight than he had with Joshua. Shawn Porter beat him in the amateurs. I honestly think Bivol could move up and beat Usyk rn. Just a stylistic problem. Nah bivol is low on power as it is at heavy usyk can walk through him

It's just one of those things, like JMM and Pac. Out of all the larger guys pac fought, JMM was the guy who had him out cold from a single shot.

how was norton nothing special? so silly. beats ali when he was #1, beats jimmy young when he was #2, bobick who was #4, quarry when he was top 10, and loses a razor close fight to holmes when holmes was #1. he was a top contender, not some random guy