Why is Wilder still considered elite?

This isn't the 1920's Heavyweights anymore; today's Heavies are so much bigger and stronger. There's no way in hell a guy who weighs 190 lbs will be able to compete with someone who weighs 280 lbs. Heavyweight needs an upgrade just like all the other weight classes had to go through. The other weight classes have had a upgrade, how is that going for them? There is not a year goes by were a fighter does make the excuse 'That making the weight lost them the fight, all because they are not fighting at their natural weight and they are weight draining themselves. That is not a upgrade mate, that is the destruction of raw competition'. It is irrelevant what you believe mate when it comes to open class competition. Have you ever had a fight? Did you go to high school? Did you ever have to fight with other kids growing up? Before those fights happened, did you stop and asked for the weight and dimension of whoever you was having a dispute with? No. If somebody confronted you on the street who out weighed you by 50 pounds, and stated that had a issue with you and your family 'And proceeded to attack you. Are you not going to defend yourself? Or are you going to cite this rule that you cannot compete with this person because he is different and out weigh's you? You are going to fight mate, because that is nature that is open class competition. That is essentially what open class competition is, that is how competition in nature and society works 'The Heavyweight boxing division is the only division in all of combat sports which reflects that'. The Heavyweight Division is not about finding out who the best fighter is at a specific weight 'It is about finding out who is the apex fighter in boxing, within a open class competition'. So you want to destroy raw competition just because people are different, do you watch any other sports? Lets apply that same rule to all other sports. All these track and field athletes are all different mate, they are not all the same weight or dimension. All these World strongest men athletes are not all the same weight or dimension, and you can go through all sports historically and document this. Did Usain Bolt vividly stand out among other 100 to 200 meter sprinters of his era? He did because he was competing in a open class competition, and that is ultimate the only way which the apex athlete can be decided 'Look at the differing body types there has been historically within 100 meter sprinting, from Carl Lewis, Linford Chrsitie, Donovan Bailey, Maurice Green to Jesse Owens'. Understand the flaws in your reasoning mate, the only way to find out who the apex athletes, teams or whatever in all sports are 'Is to allow open class competition. That is what the Heavyweight division in boxing is'. There is no 'I can't' there is no 'It cannot be done', there is no impossible in nature. There is only 'I will try against the odds to survive until there is no more. That is the spirit of open class competition. Oleksandr Usyk is 6"3 and 220 pounds, and he has risen to the top of the sport 'He is one fight away from becoming the apex fighter in boxing', Tyson Fury is 6"9 and he is 270 + pounds, and he is has risen to the top of his sport 'He is one fight away from becoming the apex fighter in boxing'. Note: If you don't want to watch open class competition, don't watch the Heavyweight division 'And don't watch most other non combat sports' etc..

Heavyweight is never going to be fixed until it starts accommodating the super giants that weigh 280 lbs and up. Just change Heavyweight to 230 lbs and Super Heavyweight to something like 260 lbs and everything after is unlimited Maxweight....is all I'm saying. That makes the problem worse. The champion in the Heavyweight division is the actual boxing champion. It's the open division. To be the true champion in your model you'd have to be the Unlimited Maxweight champion. Except a whole bunch who currently try to make it in the Heavyweight Division would drop down to limited weight classes in search of belts they can monetise. Basically, you'd get even fewer fights between those claiming to be the best fighters in the world. And more belts. Neither of those are a good thing.

Nature has not altered mate, Nature is open class competition 'And so is society'. In combat sports, Boxing's Heavyweight Division is the only division which reflects nature. If one fighter is 250-280 pounds so what? Nature does not care 'That is real raw open class competition'. What you are suggesting is? You want to dilute the Heavyweight division, you want to destroy the competition 'Just because fighters are different'. Take a look around in society mate, people are different 'But people still all compete, that is life'. The Heavyweight Division is not about seeing 'Who the best 200, 210 or 250 - 280 + pound fighter is'. The Heavyweight Division is about finding out who is the apex fighter in boxing 'Any man with the ambition to compete for that title, deserves that opportunity'. Note: Tyson Fury is 270 + pounds, and he is the WBC Heavyweight World Champion. Uysk is 220 pounds and he is the WBA, WBO, IBF and IBO World Heavyweight Champion 'That is what makes the Heavyweight great, that is the spectacle and artistry of it'. The Heavyweight Division is a open class division, it is a competitive democracy 'It does not need to be fixed, it does not need to be destroyed or diluted' etc. This isn't the 1920's Heavyweights anymore; today's Heavies are so much bigger and stronger. There's no way in hell a guy who weighs 190 lbs will be able to compete with someone who weighs 280 lbs. Heavyweight needs an upgrade just like all the other weight classes had to go through.

Times have changed and the Klitschko Brothers reign proved that because of the size advantages they had over the smaller competition. Nature has not altered mate, Nature is open class competition 'And so is society'. In combat sports, Boxing's Heavyweight Division is the only division which reflects nature. If one fighter is 250-280 pounds so what? Nature does not care 'That is real raw open class competition'. What you are suggesting is? You want to dilute the Heavyweight division, you want to destroy the competition 'Just because fighters are different'. Take a look around in society mate, people are different 'But people still all compete, that is life'. The Heavyweight Division is not about seeing 'Who the best 200, 210 or 250 - 280 + pound fighter is'. The Heavyweight Division is about finding out who is the apex fighter in boxing 'Any man with the ambition to compete for that title, deserves that opportunity'. Note: Tyson Fury is 270 + pounds, and he is the WBC Heavyweight World Champion. Uysk is 220 pounds and he is the WBA, WBO, IBF and IBO World Heavyweight Champion 'That is what makes the Heavyweight great, that is the spectacle and artistry of it'. The Heavyweight Division is a open class division, it is a competitive democracy 'It does not need to be fixed, it does not need to be destroyed or diluted' etc.

The "smaller competition" consisted of too many fat Americans, the weight wasn't the problem. Again, let's go back to the topic at hand, Wilder lost to Fury because he was too small. Fury's massive weight advantage, 256 & 1/2 lbs, negated Wilder's one hitter quitter power that normally KO's every average 220 lb HW. If Fury weighed the same as Wilder in the first fight, 212 & 1/2 lbs, guarantee Fury does not get up from that right hand.

The Heavyweight Division is a open class division 'Open class competition like nature itself'. The Heavyweight Division does not need to be fixed, it is the ultimate and best division. The Heavyweight Division has the most pure and raw competition, no weight limits, no weight draining, no catch weights, no re-hydration clauses just two fighters training to win etc. Times have changed and the Klitschko Brothers reign proved that because of the size advantages they had over the smaller competition.

btw people are telling Joyce to retire after these 2 beatings. but Wilder just went through 2 beatings. with the last one ending like this {"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"tyson-ko.gif","data-attachmentid":32019941}

Heavyweight is never going to be fixed until it starts accommodating the super giants that weigh 280 lbs and up. Just change Heavyweight to 230 lbs and Super Heavyweight to something like 260 lbs and everything after is unlimited Maxweight....is all I'm saying. The Heavyweight Division is a open class division 'Open class competition like nature itself'. The Heavyweight Division does not need to be fixed, it is the ultimate and best division. The Heavyweight Division has the most pure and raw competition, no weight limits, no weight draining, no catch weights, no re-hydration clauses just two fighters training to win etc.

Him being elite comes from the title he held for so long against B to C-level competition. Could he be a top fighter really - I doubt he'll find his balls to prove it at his age and also because of his character. But there is also a big question: if any true present elite faces Wilder, could he survive his cross? Answers we'll never know, unfortunately, but is also on Wilder's legacy.

i claimed stiverne was only ranked for the first fight because stiverne was only ranked for the first fight. where are you going wrong here? im literally just using the same criteria i have used from the start but because you dont know the facts you are unable to follow it. its not my fault you dont have all the facts. dont get mad at me because you are lost. helenius was ranked 9 years before wilder fought him, are we counting him as a ranked fighter too? no. we arent. we are using the same criteria as always. were they ranked when wilder fought them? the answer is stiverne was not in the rematch. please follow along https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-...t-card--122106 Bermane Stiverne Age: 39 Previous Title: WBC Heavyweight (2014-15) Previous Titles: None Height: 6’2 Weight: 254 ¾ lbs. Hails from: Las Vegas, Nevada (Born in Haiti) Record: 25-2-1, 21 KO, 1 KOBY Record in Major Title Fights: 1-1, 1 KO Rankings: Unrated this is a contemporary article showing that stiverne was in fact not ranked. what more do i have to do or say?it says wilder was ranked #2 in the ring and stiverne was not ranked at all. i moved no goalposts. i have the facts. you are the one who keeps making up new arguments to try and show wilder fought top 10 guys from 9 years previously get real ​ you are probably confusing yourself because you are unable to decipher the difference between me saying wilder beat 2 top 10 fighters, and wilder knocked out 1 top 10 fighter. i always said he beat 2 and knocked out 1. where are you going wrong? stiverne was not ranked in the rematch therefore he doesnt count as a knockout win over a top 10 fighter. please follow along so repeating the same tripe will make it so? Lol. Keep trying that red herring, you know, throw enough shiat against the wall and some will stick!

I think we should have single pound divisions all the way from strawweight to heavyweight. Say we start at 105 and go all the way up to 250. That's 146 divisions. Four belts in each weight class means there's 584 'world' titles available. Awesome. Heavyweight is never going to be fixed until it starts accommodating the super giants that weigh 280 lbs and up. Just change Heavyweight to 230 lbs and Super Heavyweight to something like 260 lbs and everything after is unlimited Maxweight....is all I'm saying.

You didn't know Stiverne was ranked... Fact. You split the straws when called out claiming that Stiverne was only ranked for the first of two fights... See the split there fuul?:lol1: If a fighter was ranked, they were ranked... Sure they might then have lost a fight and gone off the list, but Wilder defeated Stiverne who was ranked... Only a fuul saving face says "but but but, Stiverne was only ranked the first fight." Does that mean in sum total Stiverne was 1/2 ranked fighter? Because where I come from if someone is ranked, they are ranked... You got tripped up on your own silly criteria and then started looking for a way out... Didn't let you take it, owned your a s s instead. All together now: If a fighter is ranked for one fight and losses the fight and the ranking, that fighter is/was ____________ Hint: starts with an R. i claimed stiverne was only ranked for the first fight because stiverne was only ranked for the first fight. where are you going wrong here? im literally just using the same criteria i have used from the start but because you dont know the facts you are unable to follow it. its not my fault you dont have all the facts. dont get mad at me because you are lost. helenius was ranked 9 years before wilder fought him, are we counting him as a ranked fighter too? no. we arent. we are using the same criteria as always. were they ranked when wilder fought them? the answer is stiverne was not in the rematch. please follow along https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-...t-card--122106 Bermane Stiverne Age: 39 Previous Title: WBC Heavyweight (2014-15) Previous Titles: None Height: 6’2 Weight: 254 ¾ lbs. Hails from: Las Vegas, Nevada (Born in Haiti) Record: 25-2-1, 21 KO, 1 KOBY Record in Major Title Fights: 1-1, 1 KO Rankings: Unrated this is a contemporary article showing that stiverne was in fact not ranked. what more do i have to do or say?it says wilder was ranked #2 in the ring and stiverne was not ranked at all. i moved no goalposts. i have the facts. you are the one who keeps making up new arguments to try and show wilder fought top 10 guys from 9 years previously get real ​ you are probably confusing yourself because you are unable to decipher the difference between me saying wilder beat 2 top 10 fighters, and wilder knocked out 1 top 10 fighter. i always said he beat 2 and knocked out 1. where are you going wrong? stiverne was not ranked in the rematch therefore he doesnt count as a knockout win over a top 10 fighter. please follow along

Because Wilder most likely beats everyone with his shotgun right hand except Fury. And it's not because Fury is some great fighter with great skills (Fury is average at best); I've said this before and I'll say it again, Fury beats Wilder everyone time, not because he is better, he's simply too big for Wilder. Boxing needs at least 2 new heavy weight classes to adjust to all these giants invading the Heavyweight division.

you keep talking about knocking out bums and knock outs like that matters. beating good fighers is what matters and wilder doesnt have much of that. he doesnt even have a good ko ratio against good opposition which you ignore. we are comparing quality of competition here, not how many bums you can knock out, or if wilder knocked out a bum faster than someone else. we arent chasing that red herring Ducking the question yet again. Why can't the others accomplish the same thing if the division is just full of bums? You're pathetic.

splitting straws? stating facts is splitting straws now? You didn't know Stiverne was ranked... Fact. You split the straws when called out claiming that Stiverne was only ranked for the first of two fights... See the split there fuul?:lol1: If a fighter was ranked, they were ranked... Sure they might then have lost a fight and gone off the list, but Wilder defeated Stiverne who was ranked... Only a fuul saving face says "but but but, Stiverne was only ranked the first fight." Does that mean in sum total Stiverne was 1/2 ranked fighter? Because where I come from if someone is ranked, they are ranked... You got tripped up on your own silly criteria and then started looking for a way out... Didn't let you take it, owned your a s s instead. All together now: If a fighter is ranked for one fight and losses the fight and the ranking, that fighter is/was ____________ Hint: starts with an R.

So? He got removed for inactivity, which is one of the issues with Ring. He was still ranked the year before, in which he didn't fight. Tyson Fury was removed as well for the same reason, and you'd pretend he wasn't worth anything at all when he came back? All you do is cherry pick stats and move goalposts. Fury doesn't have 5 top 10 wins. He's got Wilder 3 times, Whyte, and Klitschko, and one of those fights was a draw, and his best one was a decision, and tainted because he was positive for PEDs. In fact, if Wilder is so overrated, why do we even count wins against him at all? Ruiz has Joseph Parker (loss), AJ (win), AJ (loss), Ortiz (win, but failed to knock him out, which Wilder did twice). We don't know if AJ is a better win than anyone on Wilder's resume because they haven't fought and they have very little common opposition. And AJ couldn't even knock out Jermaine Franklin. It took him 7 rounds to do to Helenius and Breazeale what Wilder did in 1 for both. And you have yet to answer the question why, if the division is full of bums, the others haven't been able to knock out as many bums as Wilder or defend their title(s) as many times. The answer isn't because they're fighting top competition, aside from AJ. I do think AJ deserves more credit than he's been getting lately, but ALL of them have guys who weren't top 10 that they didn't knock out. The ONLY guy that Wilder didn't knock out is Tyson Fury, the #1 ranked guy in the division. The truth is that you're a hater, and you'll do anything to discredit a guy who has accomplished more than you ever will. you keep talking about knocking out bums and knock outs like that matters. beating good fighers is what matters and wilder doesnt have much of that. he doesnt even have a good ko ratio against good opposition which you ignore. we are comparing quality of competition here, not how many bums you can knock out, or if wilder knocked out a bum faster than someone else. we arent chasing that red herring

Moving those posts again! Listen to what you claimed about Wilder and what you claim now. Nobody was putting Wilder above, you were trying to put him below and you got handled! So now? suddenly? you turn tail and claim "You guys were saying Wilder was in a class by himself!" No... ut rankings, kYou wanted to play the rankings game, I showed you that Bermaine was ranked, and if someone like me, who is an idiot abonows that Stiverne was ranked... What does it say about you and the basis for your downgrade of Wilder? Think about it lol... i already counted stiverene as ranked though so what you are saying makes no sense. i said wilder has ko'd 1 top 10 opponent. that is 100 percent true it was ortiz. he has beaten 2 top 10 opponents. that is 100 percent true. ortiz and stiverne. where are you going wrong here? are you counting heleniius as ranked as well because he was ranked 9 years before wilder fought him? that would be moving the goal posts which is what you did because you knew you couldnt argue with me on the merits since i had the facts and all you had was an emotional attachment to wilder

Because the rest of the HW division is crap. And because Wilder has power in his right hand and has been knocking people not named Fury out. And also because he hasn't fought in a long time, people do not really know where he's actually at. So, they are assuming he is the same guy who fought a very courageous and tough fight against Fury in their 3rd encounter. And also because he has shown that he only has to be perfect for 2 seconds and 36 minutes is a lot of time to get those 2 seconds. And because HW boxing is about big KOs and Wilder looks good KOing people.

he was not ranked in the rematch i literally just posted the proof of that on the last page So? He got removed for inactivity, which is one of the issues with Ring. He was still ranked the year before, in which he didn't fight. Tyson Fury was removed as well for the same reason, and you'd pretend he wasn't worth anything at all when he came back? All you do is cherry pick stats and move goalposts. Fury doesn't have 5 top 10 wins. He's got Wilder 3 times, Whyte, and Klitschko, and one of those fights was a draw, and his best one was a decision, and tainted because he was positive for PEDs. In fact, if Wilder is so overrated, why do we even count wins against him at all? Ruiz has Joseph Parker (loss), AJ (win), AJ (loss), Ortiz (win, but failed to knock him out, which Wilder did twice). We don't know if AJ is a better win than anyone on Wilder's resume because they haven't fought and they have very little common opposition. And AJ couldn't even knock out Jermaine Franklin. It took him 7 rounds to do to Helenius and Breazeale what Wilder did in 1 for both. And you have yet to answer the question why, if the division is full of bums, the others haven't been able to knock out as many bums as Wilder or defend their title(s) as many times. The answer isn't because they're fighting top competition, aside from AJ. I do think AJ deserves more credit than he's been getting lately, but ALL of them have guys who weren't top 10 that they didn't knock out. The ONLY guy that Wilder didn't knock out is Tyson Fury, the #1 ranked guy in the division. The truth is that you're a hater, and you'll do anything to discredit a guy who has accomplished more than you ever will.

lol, splitting straws again... OHHH!!! he wasn't ranked in the rematch (poof!!) you are the perfect casual idiot that eats up these "rankings" which mean nothing... What changed with Stiverne? He lost a fight! But that ranking is fodder for an argument about the inherent ability of the man... LIKE he magically WAS TRANSFORMED when the boxing council changed his standing. What a moronie!:lol1::lol1: splitting straws? stating facts is splitting straws now?