One thing I will say about MMA that i prefer over boxing....

I don't care mate. I don't really like the culture of Mixed Martial Arts, it attracts a certain type of personality 'And I have witnessed this in my life' the sport caters for weasels. I did Karate as a kid 'I am not apposed to Martial arts, real martial arts'. Mixed Martial Arts has a tacky, plastic, microwavable culture 'And on a street level? It does seem to attract a personality a character that I may dislike'. It sounds like you're just coming up with a bunch of abstract unquantifiable reasons to hate on the sport tbh. I mean wtf does "tacky, plastic, microwaveable culture" really mean and how does a typical boxing show differ from that other than the sport itself being older? why do UFC champions seem "empty" but the 50 or so current major belt holders in boxing dont? There are idiots in every sports fanbase. Plus the whole Tapout/Affliction shirt wearing jock MMA fan stereotype is a relic from the 2000s and doesnt really apply anymore considering how much larger and more widespread the fanbase is now.

You're conflating stuff like ancient pankration or Gracie challenges with MMA, they arent comparable at all stylistically. So if none of the more recent guys are setting the bar who is the true GOAT of MMA then? can you show me an "MMA" fight from the 1950s that looks anything like MMA? which "MMA" fighters from 30+ years ago do you think could beat the current champions? I don't care mate. I don't really like the culture of Mixed Martial Arts, it attracts a certain type of personality 'And I have witnessed this in my life' the sport caters for weasels. I did Karate as a kid 'I am not apposed to Martial arts, real martial arts'. Mixed Martial Arts has a tacky, plastic, microwavable culture 'And on a street level? It does seem to attract a personality a character that I may dislike'.

It is all made up mate. Nobody is setting the bar. Mixed Martial Arts has been around for just as long as boxing. You're conflating stuff like ancient pankration or Gracie challenges with MMA, they arent comparable at all stylistically. So if none of the more recent guys are setting the bar who is the true GOAT of MMA then? can you show me an "MMA" fight from the 1950s that looks anything like MMA? which "MMA" fighters from 30+ years ago do you think could beat the current champions?

MMA has basically only existed since the 1990s, wouldnt it make sense that there are going to be a lot of fighters setting the bar in such a young sport? It is all made up mate. Nobody is setting the bar. Mixed Martial Arts has been around for just as long as boxing.

Their champions seem very empty 'Inside'. And that is because EVERYONE, seems to be promoted as a all time great etc MMA has basically only existed since the 1990s, wouldnt it make sense that there are going to be a lot of fighters setting the bar in such a young sport?

That’s one of the things I hate about MMA. Someone gets hyped as the next big thing and then they get mauled and ... along comes another next big thing. As a very, very casual MMA fan in all the years it has been around to me you never see anyone rise to greatness. you’re ‘great’ today and gone tomorrow. There are no Muhammad Ali’s or Sugar Ray Robinsons who raise the level of the game and set a standard. It is a tacky, microwavable sport, plastic in its ambiance. As Bernard Hopkins once stated? We live in a microwavable age. It attracts a certain type of mentality. Their champions seem very empty 'Inside'. And that is because EVERYONE, seems to be promoted as a all time great etc 'It is obviously a marketing ploy, and it does quite well in this microwavable age'.

That’s one of the things I hate about MMA. Someone gets hyped as the next big thing and then they get mauled and ... along comes another next big thing. As a very, very casual MMA fan in all the years it has been around to me you never see anyone rise to greatness. you’re ‘great’ today and gone tomorrow. There are no Muhammad Ali’s or Sugar Ray Robinsons who raise the level of the game and set a standard. As a very, very casual fan you will never fully appreciate what UFC represents to fight fans. You only have one person making the fights, so they get made week after week and "0's" don't really count for tish to the people who watch. Unfortunately, boxing has maybe 2-3 meaningful fights a year now. Promotors spend more time fighting each other on social media than making actual fights.

I think its more excusable in mma to lose because there is more randomness and even luck. There are way more dimensions so more things are left unknown and thats why losses don't really effect you too much. Yep. Theres much more chance of a fight ending in a split second out of nowhere in MMA. The smaller gloves, the lack of standing counts after knockdowns, eight different weapons to KO people with instead of two, submissions etc all just make it a lot more likely a fighter will slip up at some point no matter how good they are. Which is why boxing style undefeated records are so uncommon.

I think its more excusable in mma to lose because there is more randomness and even luck. There are way more dimensions so more things are left unknown and thats why losses don't really effect you too much.

I think as it stands if he wins this weekend he will be another 3-4 quality wins (guys like Ferg and Chandler) off entering that Mt Rushmore Anderson/GSP/Jones/Fedor level. Hes still only 32 and has been dominant so far so its doable, but he'd have to fight more regularly than he has been. Yes I think you’re right.

Good point about Nurmagomedov, by the way. I feel he is equal to Mayweather in terms of his MMA skill (not boxing, of course), and it will be interesting to see if when all is said and done, he retires with his zero like Mayweather did. I think as it stands if he wins this weekend he will be another 3-4 quality wins (guys like Ferg and Chandler) off entering that Mt Rushmore Anderson/GSP/Jones/Fedor level. Hes still only 32 and has been dominant so far so its doable, but he'd have to fight more regularly than he has been.

But Fedor is exactly what I’m talking about. As soon as he’s exalted or anointed as the greatest thing in MMA didn’t he start getting KTFO in a couple of minutes every time out? No, he went 10 years and 30+ fights undefeated as a chubby 5'11 HW, was considered the best HW in the world from the time he won the Pride HW title in 2003 through to losing for the first time in 2010, and was no1 on a lot of peoples p4p lists for a lot of that time too. He had a brutal decline, but that 2000s version of him is still the most well rounded and skilled HW of all time even now. Just like, “Chuck Liddell is a legit badass!!! Oh, someone go help him up.” “Ronda Rousey is the baddest woman ever to compete!!! Oops, give her some smelling salts and help find her teeth.” Etc., etc. Chuck WAS a legit badass. He was one of the best fighters the sport had seen at that time. Before he started declining hard in his late 30s he was 20-3 with two of the three losses avenged. As for Ronda, you're talking womens MMA, just like womens boxing the bar isnt exactly high. But within that context, yeah, she was pretty impressive for a while. All but one of her 12 wins were in the first round, 8 of them lasted under a minute. She was also an olympic medallist in judo before entering MMA. And again, talking about losses and records is apples to oranges with boxing. With the smaller gloves, the lack of standing counts and all the other things at play, (plus the relative lack of record padding and cherry picking) its much harder to stay undefeated for long periods in MMA, especially if you're in the UFC. Canelo is 53-1, GGG is 40-1, Crawford is 36-0, even ****ing Wilder is 42-1, but in terms of actual meaningful fights theres hardly anything there compared to the guys that are considered MMA greats.

In MMA, a loss doesn't kill your career or your reputation the same way that it does in Boxing what i mean is, in MMA you are expected to lose, but your not seen as a ruined or a washover... you can still become great and be viewed at as great. In boxing, its different fans will call you a "bum" or "over the hill" as soon as you lose. there seems to be alot more stake for a loss in boxing then in MMA. I tend to prefer the latter, I think we are too harsh to people that lose in boxing. We always say their done or a bum and I think its quite silly to be honest I agree 150% MMA fans are more respectful to their fighters.

two different sports, with vastly different emphasis. However a lost is a lost no matter that the sport it just happen that the fighters on UFC/MMA side are under one umbrella so really a fight doesnt hurt you cause you can still get fights cause others figthers are under the same umbrella so neither of you two have any options to eventally fight each other. In boxing this is true to with figthers like Adrien Broner who lost after lost still gets the Main Events fights cause he is in good with Al Haymon so Al Haymon keeps in flooded with great fights from the PBC stable and his lost dont really matter however a fighter like say Chris Martin after his lost everyone washed their hands of him cause no one cares about him so his lost had more drastic effects than a broner.

I think the flaw in the reasoning is those other guys have completed their career while Fury and Loma are still fighting. I think it completely fair to re-evaluate an athlete as you get more information. Wins and losses don’t make a fighter less talented, but they do give us a better sense of how good they are. I have not suggested Loma is any less talented because he lost. In fact, if you check the rbr thread, I point out how his great defense kept him from being totally dominated early. From a greatness standpoint, This fight brings that into question if for no other reason than the fact he didn’t fight for 6 rounds. He looked totally unprepared for what Teo brought to the ring. Let’s see where he goes from here. I can respect your opinion but if he ends up With losses to the best guys on his resume then I think many will re evaluate. I dont see how that isn’t fair. I’ve always been a Loma fan because I like that sort of style of fighting. But he has a specific weakness, I think. He doesn’t take consistent pressure too well. I noticed that also in the Campbell fight, in that case he was still able to win. But I think an elite pressure fighter will beat Loma most times.

Exactly, before TBE made his coveted sacred holy "0" the be all end all, the true GOAT of boxing was still recognized as the GOAT despite having 5 losses on his record. That's one of the big reasons the top guys in boxing don't want to face the other top guys now. It's spilled over a bit to MMA as well with Khabib and getting overrated a bit with his 0 loss record. I personally still rank guys with losses to their names like Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, SRR, SRL, Tommy Hearns, and Roberto Durán above the unbeaten guys like Menayothin (54-0), Mayweather (50-0), Marciano (49-0), Calzaghe (46-0), and Ward (32-0). Good point about Nurmagomedov, by the way. I feel he is equal to Mayweather in terms of his MMA skill (not boxing, of course), and it will be interesting to see if when all is said and done, he retires with his zero like Mayweather did.

That’s one of the things I hate about MMA. Someone gets hyped as the next big thing and then they get mauled and ... along comes another next big thing. As a very, very casual MMA fan in all the years it has been around to me you never see anyone rise to greatness. you’re ‘great’ today and gone tomorrow. There are no Muhammad Ali’s or Sugar Ray Robinsons who raise the level of the game and set a standard. I respectfully disagree with that. Nurmagomedov is an “MMA Mayweather”, no matter what happens in his career next, he has already raised the sport. Jon Jones is similar to SRL in that he does everything quite well and has also raised the sport. I see your point, but I don’t agree entirely.

That sounds wonderful. I’m sure they’ll enjoy their studies. But Fedor is exactly what I’m talking about. As soon as he’s exalted or anointed as the greatest thing in MMA didn’t he start getting KTFO in a couple of minutes every time out? What is he, like 35-5? Yeah, that’s your Muhammad Ali right there. Textbook MMA. Just like, “Chuck Liddell is a legit badass!!! Oh, someone go help him up.” “Ronda Rousey is the baddest woman ever to compete!!! Oops, give her some smelling salts and help find her teeth.” Etc., etc. Nobody rates Chuck or Ronda that high since their skill ceilings were pretty low. Fedor just was THE MAN and proved it over and over and over while being undersized and dominated at HW. In his prime he was a HW moving like a MW **** was unreal. Remember the other losses came at the end of his career when his age and athleticism lose came quickly to him. In laments terms he is our Ali and decades down the line he and his matches will still be watched and studied by up and coming fighters. Then again most people won’t give him his praises until after he’s dead so at least him and other ATG fighters have that in common smh.

All three people he just named are easily the greatest in their divisions and will be studied and looked upon as father figures of the young sport for decades to come. Especially Silva and Fedor who more or less undefeated for 10 years while crafting a resume that’d make Klitschko bush at least in MMA. Fedor’s reign at the top realistically will not be topped this or next generation. That sounds wonderful. I’m sure they’ll enjoy their studies. But Fedor is exactly what I’m talking about. As soon as he’s exalted or anointed as the greatest thing in MMA didn’t he start getting KTFO in a couple of minutes every time out? What is he, like 35-5? Yeah, that’s your Muhammad Ali right there. Textbook MMA. Just like, “Chuck Liddell is a legit badass!!! Oh, someone go help him up.” “Ronda Rousey is the baddest woman ever to compete!!! Oops, give her some smelling salts and help find her teeth.” Etc., etc.

It's paying fans that dictate this. History tells promoters that an unbeaten record gives credibility that fans will buy. They're just playing the game. The obvious answer is not to buy bs fights.