Foreman vs Frazier 1 - Reaction in today's era?

I'd say Andy Ruiz would give Mike Tyson a great fight in shape, without a doubt. Douglas was a very mediocre fighter and he boxed rings around Tyson, even if it wasn't Tyson at his very best, he was near his best and he struggled with the style, range and boxing ability of a half decent boxer in Douglas. I’d favor Frank Bruno over Joshua and we saw what Tyson did to Him.

Anthony Joshua was knocked out by Andy Ruiz. Andy Ruiz is a very mediocre fighter. Wilder didn’t land a punch as a HW champ. Different eras, different criteria but the criticisms are valid. I'd say Andy Ruiz would give Mike Tyson a great fight in shape, without a doubt. Douglas was a very mediocre fighter and he boxed rings around Tyson, even if it wasn't Tyson at his very best, he was near his best and he struggled with the style, range and boxing ability of a half decent boxer in Douglas.

Anthony Joshua was knocked out by Andy Ruiz. Andy Ruiz is a very mediocre fighter. Wilder didn’t land a punch as a HW champ. Different eras, different criteria but the criticisms are valid.

Maskaev had many KO losses before becoming a world champ by the age of 37..

In seems to be like olden day fighters were allowed to lose and still be looked back on as legends (rightly so), but let's be honest, if Foreman battered Frazier in 2020, Frazier would be getting slaughtered on here and being called nothing more than a bum. Norton beating Ali now would be the same. Ali is overrated, overhyped, etc. Just like now that Fury has beaten Wilder, anybody can beat him. People aren't allowed to lose now, that's why everybody in this era is seen as overrated, aww he lost, he's rubbish, whereas tons of losses for past era fighters are just swept under the rug. To me, I don't care about top fighters losing to other top fighters, a class fighter is someone who can compete fully at the highest level, regardless of results, modern example, Shaun Porter. But I think we need to accept that these legends we look back on, would get massive stick today for most of the losses they took. It's a double standard and that is counting against the current era getting the respect it deserves. ————— Truer words have never been spoken. And absolutely agree 💯 that Porter is the modern day A level elite fighter. The guy looks spectacular in losses. If Frazier was competing today, these casuals would eat him alive.

People would say Frazier was a hype job who only got overrated because he beat Ali coming out of prison. And they would say Foreman is the greatest ever and he'd KO any HW in history. Everyone is an unbeatable god, until they lose once and become a bum. That's 2020 for you.

Honestly, commentators used to perpetrate this back in the day before social media or even the internet. A young undefeated fighter would who was getting some shine would get beat or koed badly and you would hear things like "You have to wonder if you will ever see so and so in the ring again" or "You have to wonder if they will ever recover from this loss". It always confused me, its worse now obviously with the exposure everyone gets but its been going on for decades.

This is a very false narrative. Frazier never fought Norton ,Shavers or Lyle . Suspiciously they were 3 other power punchers other then Foreman. Foreman said he ducked Jerry Quarry for whatever reasons and never met Shavers who was said to be his equal as a puncher and so on and you never got that Holmes vs Foreman fight either ,the 1970”s is built into an extraordinary era but the truth is it was not as filled and wasn’t really any different to the current era now because fights didn’t just happen overnight either,you didn’t see the best fight each other again until years apart as well . Today’s era is filled with younger prime guys ,Ali was past his prime in many of his fights in the 70”s so I don’t even know you can call it a better era when the top 3 guys are not past their peak yet and the majority of the top guys are still developing and not worn down . The era is still young , the only 2 fights that haven’t happened is Fury vs AJ or AJ vs Wilder but you got rematches that took place very quickly while AJ was fighting top guys he’s never defended against anyone outside the top 10 And unlike the 70”s there’s a multitude of sanctioning bodies now it is not so easy and simple like those days . - -There U go waddling about and quacking like Donald Duck...simples!

This is a very false narrative. Frazier never fought Norton ,Shavers or Lyle . Suspiciously they were 3 other power punchers other then Foreman. Foreman said he ducked Jerry Quarry for whatever reasons and never met Shavers who was said to be his equal as a puncher and so on and you never got that Holmes vs Foreman fight either ,the 1970”s is built into an extraordinary era but the truth is it was not as filled and wasn’t really any different to the current era now because fights didn’t just happen overnight either,you didn’t see the best fight each other again until years apart as well . Today’s era is filled with younger prime guys ,Ali was past his prime in many of his fights in the 70”s so I don’t even know you can call it a better era when the top 3 guys are not past their peak yet and the majority of the top guys are still developing and not worn down . The era is still young , the only 2 fights that haven’t happened is Fury vs AJ or AJ vs Wilder but you got rematches that took place very quickly while AJ was fighting top guys he’s never defended against anyone outside the top 10 And unlike the 70”s there’s a multitude of sanctioning bodies now it is not so easy and simple like those days . Correct. Only Ali fought all the best of his era. That is why is is the greatest.

fighters are ok. today fans are bums. that is the problem.

It's simple those guys all fought each other. They didn't dodge each other or cherry pick every single opponent like many do today. The best fought the best so a loss wasn't the end of the world. There's always been plenty of cherry picking and stuff going on, the main difference was that was that it was extremely difficult to make a really substantial payday in previous eras without fighting (or being) the very best available.

Its about how mentally strong you are Nigel Benn lost two of his biggest fights. He came back even better each time and when it mattered won the most dangerous of assisgnment in the G man

This is a very false narrative. Frazier never fought Norton ,Shavers or Lyle . Suspiciously they were 3 other power punchers other then Foreman. Foreman said he ducked Jerry Quarry for whatever reasons and never met Shavers who was said to be his equal as a puncher and so on and you never got that Holmes vs Foreman fight either ,the 1970”s is built into an extraordinary era but the truth is it was not as filled and wasn’t really any different to the current era now because fights didn’t just happen overnight either,you didn’t see the best fight each other again until years apart as well . Today’s era is filled with younger prime guys ,Ali was past his prime in many of his fights in the 70”s so I don’t even know you can call it a better era when the top 3 guys are not past their peak yet and the majority of the top guys are still developing and not worn down . The era is still young , the only 2 fights that haven’t happened is Fury vs AJ or AJ vs Wilder but you got rematches that took place very quickly while AJ was fighting top guys he’s never defended against anyone outside the top 10 And unlike the 70”s there’s a multitude of sanctioning bodies now it is not so easy and simple like those days . This era is pretty much over, Fury vs Joshua is the decider that will determine who is number 1 'If Fury loses badly, he will disappear'. Wilder is already self combusting, none of these guys accept Anthony Joshua have appetite to fight. Tyson Fury is just cashing in, as soon as the going gets tough 'I honestly think he will retire'. If Tyson Fury suffered the same kind of defeat that Joshua experienced, he will retire.

Just because the majority of fans are new, and cherish the 0 above all else doesn't mean they're right.

Agreed. Look at when Ali lost against Frazier 1, after all the claims he made in press conferences of whipping Frazier, he wasn't panned in the papers and didn't have to deal with the insufferable boxing fans of today who would have had a field day all over social media. Some will say, "Oh, but that was Ali". I don't think so. A lot of boxers used to lose back then and weren't labelled "washed up". I blame HBO and their commentator's vitriol during the late 90's and 00's for starting this trend, particularly after the Tyson loss to Douglas. Everyone who lost was now suddenly exposed. I've even heard them say about relatively young fighters, "Will he ever be the same?". Fans pick up on this and it informs their way of thinking. I loved HBO's production values, but I prefer the old-time respect and admiration of ABC and Showcase, who could explain flaws and offer criticism without writing off a fighter as "finished".

Its weird no one gives Orlando Salido stick about his record but someone like AJ loses once and people are legit telling him to retire. I remember when Sonny Boy Joro beat Pongsaklek Wonjongkam some writer was all upset because Joro can't be championship material because he had 10 losses on his record. Yes, Americans are confused. Holyfield is ATG, even though he has 10 losses. Joshua is a bum because he has 1 loss.

It's simple those guys all fought each other. They didn't dodge each other or cherry pick every single opponent like many do today. The best fought the best so a loss wasn't the end of the world.

Its weird no one gives Orlando Salido stick about his record but someone like AJ loses once and people are legit telling him to retire. I remember when Sonny Boy Joro beat Pongsaklek Wonjongkam some writer was all upset because Joro can't be championship material because he had 10 losses on his record.

Wilder is getting hate because we were reading **** like "the most dangerous man in the world" , "Wilder is N. 1 and Ortiz is N. 2 "and so on. When Wilder beat Ortiz first time this forum was full of Wilder fans claiming Ortiz was better than Klitschko. It goes both ways. Fans maybe trash fighters too early, but they also overhype many guys. Just look , some idiots already claim Crawford is ATG because he is undefeated. Undefeated guys are overrated today.

In seems to be like olden day fighters were allowed to lose and still be looked back on as legends (rightly so), but let's be honest, if Foreman battered Frazier in 2020, Frazier would be getting slaughtered on here and being called nothing more than a bum. Norton beating Ali now would be the same. Ali is overrated, overhyped, etc. Just like now that Fury has beaten Wilder, anybody can beat him. People aren't allowed to lose now, that's why everybody in this era is seen as overrated, aww he lost, he's rubbish, whereas tons of losses for past era fighters are just swept under the rug. To me, I don't care about top fighters losing to other top fighters, a class fighter is someone who can compete fully at the highest level, regardless of results, modern example, Shaun Porter. But I think we need to accept that these legends we look back on, would get massive stick today for most of the losses they took. It's a double standard and that is counting against the current era getting the respect it deserves. This is exactly the problem today. 1 loss seems like it can ruin your entire career and a fighters fanbase falls apart. It's crazy to me how fighters today like Wilder can lose to likely the best heavyweight in the era and he is trash. Apparently because Fury beat him anybody can do it even though 40 plus people failed to. Shawn Porter is a great example of an elite fighter who loses on the cards in huge fights but IMO is capable of beating anybody in the division on select days. Great post!!!