What happened to German boxing?

It's really no surprise: Germany has a really high standard of living, and a good school-to-vocation system, so that means fewer native-born people need to do something like boxing to make an opportunity for themselves. An old girlfriend of mine grew up in a single parent household in Germany, and she started learning her trade (cutting hair) in 9th grade. To this day, she's never worked a day in her life outside of cutting hair with the skills she learned in German vocational school. So, that leaves poorer immigrants, especially people that came over in their mid-to-late teens, as the most likely to get into boxing as a career. It's the same in America. How many Americans, of any race, get into boxing that aren't from an extremely poor or immigrant background? Tor Hamer comes to mind. Who quit in the ring both times he got into a real fight, who Lou Dibella kicked to the curb live on Twitter. Kids from good backgrounds just don't get into boxing. So..... German-born or otherwise, it's going to take someone larger than life to come along and get Germans into boxing again. Absolutely, man, mother of my daughter - my eldest kid - is German-Irish and I spent a fair bit of time over there, quite seperately to that anyway. I'm pretty happy with where I am now, but if I was gonna relocate Germany would probably be near the top of my list. They really got their shit together over there in most ways from what I've experienced.

Thanks for the info, man, I knew bits of that but hadn't really thought to piece it together into a narrative. I know they have been trying to build new stars - like Feigenbutz - but with little success. Curious how there's almost no German stars who ain't of non German heritage or birth though and even Brahmer - to my mind the most talented fighter of native German ethnicity - was I think a product of the remnants of the old East German ammy program. Ha.. yeah, just did a little digging and turned up a nice Ring article from 2009 echoing similar sorts of sentiments. Not enough home grown talent. I think Germany really needs to invest in a strong ammy program, but honestly I think they're just a bit too damn civilised and comfortable on the whole.... :lol1: https://www.******.com/121311-german-boxing-scene-strong-for-now/ (Ring TV) It's really no surprise: Germany has a really high standard of living, and a good school-to-vocation system, so that means fewer native-born people need to do something like boxing to make an opportunity for themselves. An old girlfriend of mine grew up in a single parent household in Germany, and she started learning her trade (cutting hair) in 9th grade. To this day, she's never worked a day in her life outside of cutting hair with the skills she learned in German vocational school. So, that leaves poorer immigrants, especially people that came over in their mid-to-late teens, as the most likely to get into boxing as a career. It's the same in America. How many Americans, of any race, get into boxing that aren't from an extremely poor or immigrant background? Tor Hamer comes to mind. Who quit in the ring both times he got into a real fight, who Lou Dibella kicked to the curb live on Twitter. Kids from good backgrounds just don't get into boxing. So..... German-born or otherwise, it's going to take someone larger than life to come along and get Germans into boxing again.

Yeah on it mate😂, Herring seems a really good guy from what I’ve seen/heard, think he even posts on forums like these from time to time. I wouldn’t begrudge him winning at all. I’ve always been pretty bias with Frampton as I dine out on calling him being a world champion after watching his debut at the Olympia. Always followed his career since, I have a feeling moving to 130 will be a step to far though tbh. True, Herring has an account on here and has spoken to me before. Frampton looked nothing short of brilliant in his last showing against McCreary. McCreary isn't bad too, but Frampton showed he's simply a class above. If he keeps the sharpness and speed he showed in that last fight he could pose a lot of problems. It's already well known how talented he is though, it's all about how he can put it together against the top class.

Fiegenbutz was the last German I had seen in a while and he was pieced apart by Plant pretty easily. Slow, unskilled, without a real game plan. If he is one of their better guys then they are a long way from the top if they want to rock n’ roll. Leave Bon Scott out of this Lmao

On instinct alone, I have always liked Fielding as well. Was very happy for him when he beat Zeuge. The lone thing I do not forgive him is losing in the first round to Callum Smith, which prompted most everybody to attribute Smith a "terror" status which - to this day and in my opinion - is totally unjustified. I think the nerves really got the better of him that night, the whole local rivalry really put the pressure on both fighters. Both lads literally sparred as novices in an amateur gym in Kirkdale, and rumours are Rocky used to get the better of Callum but that’s likely due to him being 2-3 years older, so maybe he underestimated how much Smith had developed and improved. I did expect Smith to win but I didn’t expect it to be a 1 round blowout like it turned out.

I know for certain that the hotel shooting at that MTK show weigh in didn't do any favours for them booking gigs. The Kinahans indeed are trying to keep their acitivities in the republic more on the down low. By the way I'm joking about disliking Loyalists, I don't care about sectarianism or BS jingoistic beefs. Frampton's actually called for peace between northerners and is a good unifying figure from the UK side of the northern Irish debate. The likes of him and Michael Conlan have the potential to set a good example by promoting their ideals of peace and unity to both sides. Although I really like Jamel. It's a tough call but I gotta back blood over friendship. Frampton is still an Irishman after all, I don't care what part he's from, we're all Irish on this island. Yeah on it mate😂, Herring seems a really good guy from what I’ve seen/heard, think he even posts on forums like these from time to time. I wouldn’t begrudge him winning at all. I’ve always been pretty bias with Frampton as I dine out on calling him being a world champion after watching his debut at the Olympia. Always followed his career since, I have a feeling moving to 130 will be a step to far though tbh.

What people thought he had a chance? No one here did. There were many who took a glance at his Boxrec resume and rightly wrote him off. Then there were people like me who actually went out of their way and watched a few fights of his to get a feel for exactly how subpar is this guy is. Lost a few dollars by predicting he would be stopped earlier. Plants fault. Don’t remember anyone picking Feigenbutz though. You must be German. I'm not German, but I clearly remember a couple of threads before the Plant fight where someone (perhaps from Germany for real) fancied Feigenbutz's chances. Even when I pointed out his deficiencies they still replied around the lines of "he's much improved after getting beat by De Carolis, he might knock Plant out".

Fiegenbutz was the last German I had seen in a while and he was pieced apart by Plant pretty easily. Slow, unskilled, without a real game plan. If he is one of their better guys then they are a long way from the top if they want to rock n’ roll. Suffice to say that Feigenbutz lost twice to Giovanni De Carolis, of all people. One is an official win out of a robbery, the other a genuine KO loss. And believe me, De Carolis is not an ATG. Having said that, there were people who still gave a good shot to Feigenbutz to knock Plant out...

Rocky’s a really nice fella, not the most talented but a hard worker who’s made the most out of his talent and opportunities. I was buzzing he got the Canelo payday. Pretty cool story considering he began his career with little to no fanfare and was only thrown into Prizefighter cause he would sell a few tickets at the Liverpool Olympia. On instinct alone, I have always liked Fielding as well. Was very happy for him when he beat Zeuge. The lone thing I do not forgive him is losing in the first round to Callum Smith, which prompted most everybody to attribute Smith a "terror" status which - to this day and in my opinion - is totally unjustified.

Most of the next generation just didn't pan out. Culcay is at a decent level, but just doesnt have it to beat top contenders. Feigenbutz is still young though, but just lacks boxing skills and ring IQ to be successful. Zeuge was shown to be under the european level. Those three were the generation right after the old guys started to retire. There are some hopefuls for the current generation, but none are past the prospect stage so far and still need at least 2 years to challenge for a title. Abass Barou - successful amateur, pressure fighter with a good gas tank Sebastian Formella - Has the IBO-title, no power, but runs around the ring like no other Leon Bunn - not really flashy, trained by abrahams former trainer, has clean boxing technique and starts to develop some power Peter Kadiru - heavyweight prospect, not convinced so far, still young, but lacks power Erik Pfeiffer - heavyweight prospect, already 33, but has been a decent amateur for ages Edit: SES Boxing has Mohammed Rabii under contract, really talented amateur from morocco. Dude beat Yeleussinov, Josh Kelly and Roniel Iglesias in the amateurs. I watched Rabii's last fight. He is a prospect worth watching, he's training under Ben Davison too, so we can see how Ben does building a prospect from the ground up.

Rocky’s a really nice fella, not the most talented but a hard worker who’s made the most out of his talent and opportunities. I was buzzing he got the Canelo payday. Pretty cool story considering he began his career with little to no fanfare and was only thrown into Prizefighter cause he would sell a few tickets at the Liverpool Olympia. Is it cause of the beef between Kinahan/MTK and the Irish politicians and media? I’m really surprised Hearn hasn’t gone back there with Katie Taylor. Big Frampton fan myself, I might get a flight over for the Herring fight. Would love to see Carl do it. I know for certain that the hotel shooting at that MTK show weigh in didn't do any favours for them booking gigs. The Kinahans indeed are trying to keep their acitivities in the republic more on the down low. By the way I'm joking about disliking Loyalists, I don't care about sectarianism or BS jingoistic beefs. Frampton's actually called for peace between northerners and is a good unifying figure from the UK side of the northern Irish debate. The likes of him and Michael Conlan have the potential to set a good example by promoting their ideals of peace and unity to both sides. Although I really like Jamel. It's a tough call but I gotta back blood over friendship. Frampton is still an Irishman after all, I don't care what part he's from, we're all Irish on this island.

German boxing was really top-heavy, with the big names doing big business and driving German boxing's success. But the stables weren't deep with talent. Like boxing anywhere else: when the bigger stars fade or retire, and a lot of the up-and coming talent fails to take their place, boxing takes a huge hit. Universum was the driver behind much of German boxing's success in the 90's and 2000's. They got to a place where they were raking in money from the Klitschkos and had a lucrative TV contract, but got greedy and built a reputation for putting on too many garbage showcase fights and cheating fights out of money. Wasted guys like (much of) Golovkin and Erdei's careers. The Klitschkos left and the TV contract expired, and suddenly Universum went from a force in Geman boxing to bankrupt. Fritz Sdune, another force in German boxing, who trained Vitali Klitschko, Strum, Michalczewski, and pretty much every other name in Germany boxing the pack 20 years, died in 2014. Big loss. There are still lots of shows going on across Germany when there's not a pandemic going on. It's just going to take a big star to emerge to get German boxing going again. Thanks for the info, man, I knew bits of that but hadn't really thought to piece it together into a narrative. I know they have been trying to build new stars - like Feigenbutz - but with little success. Curious how there's almost no German stars who ain't of non German heritage or birth though and even Brahmer - to my mind the most talented fighter of native German ethnicity - was I think a product of the remnants of the old East German ammy program. Ha.. yeah, just did a little digging and turned up a nice Ring article from 2009 echoing similar sorts of sentiments. Not enough home grown talent. I think Germany really needs to invest in a strong ammy program, but honestly I think they're just a bit too damn civilised and comfortable on the whole.... :lol1: https://www.******.com/121311-german-boxing-scene-strong-for-now/ (Ring TV)

Most of the next generation just didn't pan out. Culcay is at a decent level, but just doesnt have it to beat top contenders. Feigenbutz is still young though, but just lacks boxing skills and ring IQ to be successful. Zeuge was shown to be under the european level. Those three were the generation right after the old guys started to retire. There are some hopefuls for the current generation, but none are past the prospect stage so far and still need at least 2 years to challenge for a title. Abass Barou - successful amateur, pressure fighter with a good gas tank Sebastian Formella - Has the IBO-title, no power, but runs around the ring like no other Leon Bunn - not really flashy, trained by abrahams former trainer, has clean boxing technique and starts to develop some power Peter Kadiru - heavyweight prospect, not convinced so far, still young, but lacks power Erik Pfeiffer - heavyweight prospect, already 33, but has been a decent amateur for ages Edit: SES Boxing has Mohammed Rabii under contract, really talented amateur from morocco. Dude beat Yeleussinov, Josh Kelly and Roniel Iglesias in the amateurs.

It wasn't just the big names back in the day. A lot of good heavyweight scraps, plenty of depth due to the overseas fighters, mostly european, being based there. It really has taken a huge hit and I wouldn't ever expect a return to those 'glory' days.

Yeah not gonna lie Fielding isn't exactly gonna be in a boring fight. I tune into him when he's on. That Paziwapazi KO he got last time out was delectable. Sure you're lucky you even get to go to fights. Best we get in Ireland are the Conlan cards in Belfast. Been ages since there was a good fight in Dublin. I'll be going to Frampton-Herring for sure though, I don't like Loyalists so I'll absolutely pay to watch him get battered by a Marine. Rocky’s a really nice fella, not the most talented but a hard worker who’s made the most out of his talent and opportunities. I was buzzing he got the Canelo payday. Pretty cool story considering he began his career with little to no fanfare and was only thrown into Prizefighter cause he would sell a few tickets at the Liverpool Olympia. Is it cause of the beef between Kinahan/MTK and the Irish politicians and media? I’m really surprised Hearn hasn’t gone back there with Katie Taylor. Big Frampton fan myself, I might get a flight over for the Herring fight. Would love to see Carl do it.

Good points... the talent really isn’t there atm. I was actually at Zeuge-Fielding, 9 hour f***ing train journey, after a 4 hour drive down to London.�� Big Fielding fan so worth it. Yeah not gonna lie Fielding isn't exactly gonna be in a boring fight. I tune into him when he's on. That Paziwapazi KO he got last time out was delectable. Sure you're lucky you even get to go to fights. Best we get in Ireland are the Conlan cards in Belfast. Been ages since there was a good fight in Dublin. I'll be going to Frampton-Herring for sure though, I don't like Loyalists so I'll absolutely pay to watch him get battered by a Marine. By the way did you ever get to talk to Jamel Herring on here? He has an account and sometimes pops up with something to say. Cool dude to say the least.

They lost a load of Polish talent to the US. Eastern European talent is operating more often in the US and UK markets, they also have a massive gap in talent right now. Culcay is the best they have right now and he's only a nearly man even if he's quite good. Formella is tough, has good output and movement but is limited. Boesel is very stiff and robotic, even if he's decent. Their best talents are Abass Baraou and Leon Bunn who I'm not convinced would be champions. They could've had something in Tyron Zeuge but he got smoked by Rocky bloody Fielding. Good points... the talent really isn’t there atm. I was actually at Zeuge-Fielding, 9 hour f***ing train journey, after a 4 hour drive down to London.😂 Big Fielding fan so worth it.

There is not much boxing anywhere right now but most of those fighters named were beat and limited talent to take their place. They are pretty much all retired...

German boxing was really top-heavy, with the big names doing big business and driving German boxing's success. But the stables weren't deep with talent. Like boxing anywhere else: when the bigger stars fade or retire, and a lot of the up-and coming talent fails to take their place, boxing takes a huge hit. Universum was the driver behind much of German boxing's success in the 90's and 2000's. They got to a place where they were raking in money from the Klitschkos and had a lucrative TV contract, but got greedy and built a reputation for putting on too many garbage showcase fights and cheating fights out of money. Wasted guys like (much of) Golovkin and Erdei's careers. The Klitschkos left and the TV contract expired, and suddenly Universum went from a force in Geman boxing to bankrupt. Fritz Sdune, another force in German boxing, who trained Vitali Klitschko, Strum, Michalczewski, and pretty much every other name in Germany boxing the pack 20 years, died in 2014. Big loss. There are still lots of shows going on across Germany when there's not a pandemic going on. It's just going to take a big star to emerge to get German boxing going again. Thanks for the info dude... I remember the Klitschko’s used to fight on RTL which is a terrestrial channel so would have needed a huge audience to draw income. Without a big star I imagine boxing has been put on the back burner. I remember the Sauerland cards on SAT1 too, I’m assuming they’ve had the same problem. Kalle has obviously branched out into the global market with the WBSS as well.

They lost a load of Polish talent to the US. Eastern European talent is operating more often in the US and UK markets, they also have a massive gap in talent right now. Culcay is the best they have right now and he's only a nearly man even if he's quite good. Formella is tough, has good output and movement but is limited. Boesel is very stiff and robotic, even if he's decent. Their best talents are Abass Baraou and Leon Bunn who I'm not convinced would be champions. They could've had something in Tyron Zeuge but he got smoked by Rocky bloody Fielding.