Do you guys think Pacquiao is on a par with Duran?

You can never redeem yourself from a loss of that magnitude, it's literally the worst loss in the history of the sport and damaged boxing for decades. The titles he won later had nothing to do with this. The only thing he could have done to redeem himself was rematch SRL asap and win dominantly but he didn't do that did he? Of course not, he wasn't man enough, his prime went down the toilet soon after as he had zero discipline so he couldn't stay at that level and get a rematch, instead took nearly a decade for a rematch and he lost that too. So of course you ignored this. If Pac and Duran ever fought in some alternate universe, Roberto would get extremely frustrated by punches landing everywhere on his thick head and he would just do what he does best: Quit. Your only point in this thread is that a duran in his early 20s was better than a teenage malnourished Pacquiao. Good job, what a strong argument. Everything else is in Manny's favor, big wins, longevity, heart, head to head matchups etc. Yes because he is on a higher level as a fighter, legend and human being. Please dude, if there was any fight that damaged boxing's reputation and credibility, it was that overpriced, anti-climatic MayPac dud. Nobody gives a rat's ass about Duran-Leonard II except haters and trolls. And regardless of what you think of the 2nd fight, the fact is, Duran holds a W over Leonard. And you need brush up on your reading comprehension. I'm not talking about Duran's age, I'm comparing Duran & Pac as contenders with 20 plus fights into their careers. Pac lost to a bum, Duran lost to a P.R. Great that he later avenged. On a higher level as a "fighter, legend and human being," how do you figure? By crying and whining that his shoulder hurt after he lost to Mayweather thus soiling the fight? Give me a break, Pacquaio didn't get the job done, simple as that.

You convinced me. I mean how heartwarming, your story brought me to tears there. Tears of laughter, but still heartwarming. I'm glad I could take you out of that fog your are living under even if just for a brief moment. Thanks for the reply.

Duran all day Pac better then Duran HA some of you guys need to get off the drugs

OK he's 100 years old. A belated happy birthday to him. Of course I appreciate Pacquiao and I think he's a great fighter. His footwork is key to him being sucessfull. It's the key to his style. Duran is still a better fighter. Well, I guess I agree to disagree. I'll believe someone who has seen it all and I have my eyes to see how slow Duran's footwork is compared to Pac. Duran can't catch Pac even if his life depended on it. Pac's speed is not just his footwork it's his hands. Pac has both. Better faster than Duran hands and feet. Speed kills bruh, and don't tell me its also about timing. Pac has that in spades too. ;) Same as Marvin Hagler who is over rated. The guy is a slow fighter. Marvin is good but damn his footwork is too slow for Pac. IF Pac was as big as Marvin. Pac will definitely give Marvin a lot of problems. That's the very definition of p4p. Irregardless of weight. If they are in the same size. Pac will spin Marvin, Duran like a top.

If Manny will hang his gloves he would be top 5 ATG if you rate Duran higher than top 5 that's the time you can conclude that he is better than Pacman.

Okay let's dissect what you said. 1. P4P is subjective. Yes, it is. But to be in the top 10 P4P means you are the best of the best of the world according to the majority. Pac has that in spades. He has fought more p4p top 10 than most fighters including the likes of Duran. 2. Pac beat Oscar. That's not the reason i showed the highlights of that fight. It was to showcase prime Pac. IF you can't even see the skill of how he showcased his gift to the world in his multidimensional skill including his amazing footwork that Duran wish he had. Then that's something you can't appreciate. Here's an old man who has seen it all. A fighter that has seen all greats of the game. And what he realized what separates Pac from the rest is his stamina. IF Pac fought Duran. He will be spinning Duran with his footwork and not letting Duran get off. Duran will just quit and call NoMas again. Here's the 100 year old Ex fighter who has seen it all and see Pac as the rarest of them all. Let this man tell you what Pac is all about. He has seen it all. 3. OK he's 100 years old. A belated happy birthday to him. Of course I appreciate Pacquiao and I think he's a great fighter. His footwork is key to him being sucessfull. It's the key to his style. Duran is still a better fighter.

There are multiple weight divisions now. There are multiple P4P fighters in the same division depending if you believe everybody with a keyboard and has a rep as a boxing Insider no matter how dubious that may be. P4P is subjective. It's based on your peers at the time you are fighting. Today's P4P can easily be tomorrow's gatekeeper. OK PAC beat Oscar. P4P fighter right.... or wrong. Was he an elite P4P fighter at 147 when he fought PAC. I would say emphatically... no way in hell. He looked weak and old when he fought Pacquiao. That version of Oscar was done. Stick a fork in him. Marquez knocked him out. The Mayweather fight that I thought PAC won was a stinker. Morales beat him up. It comes down to this put the two men in the ring at 135, 140 and 147. Duran wins IMO. Resumes, P4P, lineal champions etc don't get in the ring with you. Just the two men and the referee. Okay let's dissect what you said. 1. P4P is subjective. Yes, it is. But to be in the top 10 P4P means you are the best of the best of the world according to the majority. Pac has that in spades. He has fought more p4p top 10 than most fighters including the likes of Duran. 2. Pac beat Oscar. That's not the reason i showed the highlights of that fight. It was to showcase prime Pac. IF you can't even see the skill of how he showcased his gift to the world in his multidimensional skill including his amazing footwork that Duran wish he had. Then that's something you can't appreciate. Here's an old man who has seen it all. A fighter that has seen all greats of the game. And what he realized what separates Pac from the rest is his stamina. IF Pac fought Duran. He will be spinning Duran with his footwork and not letting Duran get off. Duran will just quit and call NoMas again. Here's the 100 year old Ex fighter who has seen it all and see Pac as the rarest of them all. Let this man tell you what Pac is all about. He has seen it all. 3.

As a human being ?? Duran was constantly broke partially because he gave away money to the poor. He's involved in charities and organizations for underprivileged children. He doesn't go around boasting about it or drawing attention to himself he just does it. When DeJesus lay dying from AIDS Duran went to see him and embraced him. At that time AIDS was commonly thought to be a disease only Gay people contracted. He most likely got it from sharing needles but at that time suspicions were there. Mannys idea to deal with ****sexuals is to call them animals or worse. Duran was never afraid to be himself and do what he wanted when he wanted for better or worse. You convinced me. I mean how heartwarming, your story brought me to tears there. Tears of laughter, but still heartwarming.

You can never redeem yourself from a loss of that magnitude, it's literally the worst loss in the history of the sport and damaged boxing for decades. The titles he won later had nothing to do with this. The only thing he could have done to redeem himself was rematch SRL asap and win dominantly but he didn't do that did he? Of course not, he wasn't man enough, his prime went down the toilet soon after as he had zero discipline so he couldn't stay at that level and get a rematch, instead took nearly a decade for a rematch and he lost that too. So of course you ignored this. If Pac and Duran ever fought in some alternate universe, Roberto would get extremely frustrated by punches landing everywhere on his thick head and he would just do what he does best: Quit. Your only point in this thread is that a duran in his early 20s was better than a teenage malnourished Pacquiao. Good job, what a strong argument. Everything else is in Manny's favor, big wins, longevity, heart, head to head matchups etc. Yes because he is on a higher level as a fighter, legend and human being. As a human being ?? Duran was constantly broke partially because he gave away money to the poor. He's involved in charities and organizations for underprivileged children. He doesn't go around boasting about it or drawing attention to himself he just does it. When DeJesus lay dying from AIDS Duran went to see him and embraced him. At that time AIDS was commonly thought to be a disease only Gay people contracted. He most likely got it from sharing needles but at that time suspicions were there. Mannys idea to deal with ****sexuals is to call them animals or worse. Duran was never afraid to be himself and do what he wanted when he wanted for better or worse.

You can never redeem yourself from a loss of that magnitude, it's literally the worst loss in the history of the sport and damaged boxing for decades. The titles he won later had nothing to do with this. The only thing he could have done to redeem himself was rematch SRL asap and win dominantly but he didn't do that did he? Of course not, he wasn't man enough, his prime went down the toilet soon after as he had zero discipline so he couldn't stay at that level and get a rematch, instead took nearly a decade for a rematch and he lost that too. So of course you ignored this. If Pac and Duran ever fought in some alternate universe, Roberto would get extremely frustrated by punches landing everywhere on his thick head and he would just do what he does best: Quit. Your only point in this thread is that a duran in his early 20s was better than a teenage malnourished Pacquiao. Good job, what a strong argument. Everything else is in Manny's favor, big wins, longevity, heart, head to head matchups etc. Yes because he is on a higher level as a fighter, legend and human being. Duran was his own worst enemy when it came to binging between fights. Ray wanted the rematch ASAP because he knew that Duran would be out of shape. It's Duran's fault no doubt for taking the fight too soon. He stopped fighting in the rematch because he was frustrated by Leonard's tactics. Sure he disgraced himself and lost his trainer over it. He made up for it many times over when he moved on from that fight. All that doesn't matter. What matters is if the two guys had ever fought Duran would be the one with the raised arm at the end of the fight.

No, first of all you ignored the point I made when I told you Duran redeemed himself by winning titles at 154 & 160, beyond his natural fighting weight. You can never redeem yourself from a loss of that magnitude, it's literally the worst loss in the history of the sport and damaged boxing for decades. The titles he won later had nothing to do with this. The only thing he could have done to redeem himself was rematch SRL asap and win dominantly but he didn't do that did he? Of course not, he wasn't man enough, his prime went down the toilet soon after as he had zero discipline so he couldn't stay at that level and get a rematch, instead took nearly a decade for a rematch and he lost that too. So of course you ignored this. If Pac and Duran ever fought in some alternate universe, Roberto would get extremely frustrated by punches landing everywhere on his thick head and he would just do what he does best: Quit. And stop with the kid bs, Pacquaio got knocked out by a cab driver as a prospect, Duran as a prospect did not. When they were both contenders with 20+ fights in, Pacquiao once again got knocked out by a limo driver that he did not avenge while Duran lost to a legend but eventually did avenge twice. Your only point in this thread is that a duran in his early 20s was better than a teenage malnourished Pacquiao. Good job, what a strong argument. Everything else is in Manny's favor, big wins, longevity, heart, head to head matchups etc. Pacquaio is not on Duran's level and never will be. Yes because he is on a higher level as a fighter, legend and human being.

You're making an irrelevant point about Pacquiao losing as a young kid while blatantly ignoring the No Mas. I got news for you, getting stopped between the ages of 18-20 is absolutely nothing compared to QUITTING in your PRIME in the most important fight of your career. Lastly, Pacquiao's prime lasted much longer and he's been at the highest level longer so whatever point you want to make about timeframes, Duran doesn't win this because he had no discipline to extend his best years, made excuses for every loss he ever had and he was a proven quitter. He is inferior to Pacquiao as a fighter, as a legend and as a MAN. There's plenty of shame in losing in that manner and making tons of excuses about it afterwards. No, first of all you ignored the point I made when I told you Duran redeemed himself by winning titles at 154 & 160, beyond his natural fighting weight. And there's was nothing irrelevant about my post since we are comparing the legacies of Duran and Pacquiao. And stop with the kid bs, Pacquaio got knocked out by a cab driver as a prospect, Duran as a prospect did not. When they were both contenders with 20+ fights in, Pacquiao once again got knocked out by a limo driver that he did not avenge while Duran lost to a legend but eventually did avenge twice. Pacquaio is not on Duran's level and never will be. It's boxing sacrilege to even think that.

Look, I'll make it simple - just compare and contrast Duran and Pacquaio's early, developmental stages of their careers. Pacquaio got knocked out by two unknowns as a prospect and then as a contender. A raw, unrefined Duran lost to Hall of Famer Esteban De Jesus (who is comparable to Juan Manuel Marquez) but Duran, subsequently, destroyed him in the rematch and rubber match. You're making an irrelevant point about Pacquiao losing as a young kid while blatantly ignoring the No Mas. I got news for you, getting stopped between the ages of 18-20 is absolutely nothing compared to QUITTING in your PRIME in the most important fight of your career. Lastly, Pacquiao's prime lasted much longer and he's been at the highest level longer so whatever point you want to make about timeframes, Duran doesn't win this because he had no discipline to extend his best years, made excuses for every loss he ever had and he was a proven quitter. He is inferior to Pacquiao as a fighter, as a legend and as a MAN. And there's no shame losing to Tommy Hearns There's plenty of shame in losing in that manner and making tons of excuses about it afterwards.

No catchweights against prime Leonard. None against prime Hagler. None against Cuevas. None against prime Hearns. None against prime Palaminos. None against prime Barkley a man that dwarfed him in the ring. When Duran fought for a title he moved up to the weight class of his opponent and some people have the nerve to call him a bully. Exactly, that just shows how amazing Duran was, he was usually the oldest and smallest but he never asked for any kind of catchweight, rehydration clauses, none of this A-side crap. Same day weigh-ins, no ducking, he fought everyone at their best unlike today's generation.

You forget. Duran didn't beat as much p4p Champs in his career. Not even close to how Pac did. There are multiple weight divisions now. There are multiple P4P fighters in the same division depending if you believe everybody with a keyboard and has a rep as a boxing Insider no matter how dubious that may be. P4P is subjective. It's based on your peers at the time you are fighting. Today's P4P can easily be tomorrow's gatekeeper. OK PAC beat Oscar. P4P fighter right.... or wrong. Was he an elite P4P fighter at 147 when he fought PAC. I would say emphatically... no way in hell. He looked weak and old when he fought Pacquiao. That version of Oscar was done. Stick a fork in him. Marquez knocked him out. The Mayweather fight that I thought PAC won was a stinker. Morales beat him up. It comes down to this put the two men in the ring at 135, 140 and 147. Duran wins IMO. Resumes, P4P, lineal champions etc don't get in the ring with you. Just the two men and the referee.

The wish goes both ways. I'm sure PAC would love to have Duran's string of victories at Lightweigh They are two different fighters. Like I said I think PAC is a great fighter. I thought he beat Mayweather but I can't credit him with those catchweight fights. Couple in it's easier now to get titles with more sanctioning bodies and weight divisions. That's my view on the two fighters. You forget. Duran didn't beat as much p4p Champs in his career. Not even close to how Pac did.

- -You boys need to relocate to the History forum. We like easy fresh meat!

You can never redeem yourself after quitting in your prime in your most important career fight. It was one of the most disgraceful losses in top boxing history and will always be held against him especially when compared to other greats. Pac may have lost that one but he didn't quit. There is no quit in him unlike No Mas, who was put to death by Hearns and would never ever have a chance of winning that fight. As for his rivals, they were MAB, Morales, JMM etc. He beat all of them. Floyd never gave him a rematch and ducked him for half a decade and only met past prime, there was no rivalry there. Look, I'll make it simple - just compare and contrast Duran and Pacquaio's early, developmental stages of their careers. Pacquaio got knocked out by two unknowns as a prospect and then as a contender. A raw, unrefined Duran lost to Hall of Famer Esteban De Jesus (who is comparable to Juan Manuel Marquez) but Duran, subsequently, destroyed him in the rematch and rubber match. In short, Pacquaio got KO by two BUMS early in his career that he never avenged as opposed to Duran who lost to a HOF, De Jesus, but did avenge twice. And there's no shame losing to Tommy Hearns, he's arguably the greatest 154 fighter to ever live. Pacquiao doesn't make it out the first round with the Hitman at 147. Plus, you are also forgetting that Duran was fighting way past his natural weight. Duran was a career lightweight, his best weight was 140 and his limit was 147. Duran was mostly fat when he left the welterweight division so obviously he wasn't going to be at his best the more he moved up.

You should know once a fighter is retired that's when historians and boxing experts ponder on the work he's done. But, at this point its a no brainer how much Pac has achieved in his career. Stuff of legends that even the great Duran wish he had. The wish goes both ways. I'm sure PAC would love to have Duran's string of victories at Lightweigh They are two different fighters. Like I said I think PAC is a great fighter. I thought he beat Mayweather but I can't credit him with those catchweight fights. Couple in it's easier now to get titles with more sanctioning bodies and weight divisions. That's my view on the two fighters.

Duran redeemed himself by capturing titles at 154 and 160, without catchweights, well above his max weight. And speaking of rivals, Duran beat his in SRL. Was Pacquiao able to beat his rival in Mayweather? No, he lost and even if he had won, Pac still wouldn't be on par with Duran. No catchweights against prime Leonard. None against prime Hagler. None against Cuevas. None against prime Hearns. None against prime Palaminos. None against prime Barkley a man that dwarfed him in the ring. When Duran fought for a title he moved up to the weight class of his opponent and some people have the nerve to call him a bully.