The case for floyd higher on ATG list than Duran

So you are saying that Maxim did better job by avoiding a loss because SRR succumbed to a potentially life threatening case of hypernatremia and hyperthermia (heat exhaustion) while up on the cards so far that Maxim required a knockout to win, than SRR did in beating Henry Armstrong legitimately? Your point that Armstrong was a shell of himself is completely valid. He was as shell of himself when Robinson fought him, Robinson still beat him legitimately without any intervening environmental conditions. Your point that Robinson was in any way fresh or close to his prime is just as ludicrous as stating that Armstrong was close to his prime. Robinson was 12 years and 141 fights into his career, and retired after the maxim fight, making a comeback 3 years later for financial reasons. To say it can't be considered a fluke, is fairly disingenuous. I cant remember a fight before or since where a fighter was stopped by heat exhaustion, can you? How about one where the referee had to be replaced because of heat exhaustion? One where ringside reporters described “conditions which might have made Dante’s Inferno seem like a refrigerator.”? Robinson was defeated by the heat, not by anything Maxim did in the ring. He neither absorbed a large amount of punishment, nor was he hurt by and huge shots that would contribute to the fight ending. Environmental factors are what stopped SRR that night, not Maxim. You can just watch the fight also, and see how much bigger Maxim was, and how much harder Robinson had to work because of the size difference. And how the heat beat Robinson. Robinson for his part demonstrated why he is such a great champion. Even fading from heat exhaustion and dehydration, he still kept his composure, and kept fighting, and winning, right up until his body started to shut down. To call this a good win, instead of a close call for maxim is dubious at best, and I am fairly sure that you are aware of that. You could just modify your position to "neither was a great win for either guy, just a name past their best on their resume." I set this to start after Robinson had already started to fade from the heat. Just so you can see how handily he was winning, even when fading. dude i would not be commenting on a fight if i had not seen footage that was available or having read reports from people who were there. i had media credentials for years and i'd have a hall of fame vote by now if i'd kept with it. it's just a fact of boxing that your winning is contingent upon your ability to continue. when you quit you lose. both men were in the same environment, one man couldn't handle it and keep boxing and the other could! that's a loss! it's not some fluke, it happened all the time in an era where venues of decent size or better could not be air conditioned! when you boxed in the summer it got f#cking hot! that wasn't the first or the last time somebody boxed in the heat! pace yourself better, ray! and you're being incredibly dishonest, or maybe ignorant; i don't know you well enough, if you want to compare the state of the two careers at the time of the defeats in queston. robinson was considered the the best fighter in the world and went on to win the middleweight championship four more times in one of the very best eras ever at the weight. after the defeat, after the retirement. whereas tiny little henry armstrong, who was a lot easier to hit than robinson and fought WWs in a phone box when he was 132 lbs and could stil make FW, was completely done and did nothing close to what robinson did after losing to him. there's also the size. robinson had greater reach than maxim, was only two inches shorter. armstrong was a lightweight, he was 136 for a same day fight in his last year as a pro. 5'5" at best, gave up seven inches of reach to robinson, he was tiny and certainly further in size from robinson than maxim! this is not a discussion worth having if you don't see why one win was a footnote and the other was a stoppage of a much, much fresher fighter who went on to unprecedented success at MW and back the top of the pound for pound list. you just can't get over the fact that it was 104 degrees, they probably worked out in gyms hotter than that :rofl:. RTD 13, that's a stoppage loss. he quit.

dude they both boxed in teh same room. this sport is contingent on you coming out for the bell every round. don't call it a fluke when one guy can come out for the bell and another cannot. and certainly don't compare a win over robinson as close to his prime as anybody who beat him other than lamotta to a win over a horribly faded henry armstrong, considered a footnote on robinson's record by any boxing historian. dude touted that win like it was the best thing since sliced bread, and it shows just how little of the context of boxing in 1935ish-1958ish that he's absorbed. maxim's win over robinson the best win ever? of course not? but is it a better win than robinson's win over armstrong absolutely. with a bullet! just trust me if you don't understand that, this guy certainly does not. So you are saying that Maxim did better job by avoiding a loss because SRR succumbed to a potentially life threatening case of hypernatremia and hyperthermia (heat exhaustion) while up on the cards so far that Maxim required a knockout to win, than SRR did in beating Henry Armstrong legitimately? Your point that Armstrong was a shell of himself is completely valid. He was as shell of himself when Robinson fought him, Robinson still beat him legitimately without any intervening environmental conditions. Your point that Robinson was in any way fresh or close to his prime is just as ludicrous as stating that Armstrong was close to his prime. Robinson was 12 years and 141 fights into his career, and retired after the maxim fight, making a comeback 3 years later for financial reasons. To say it can't be considered a fluke, is fairly disingenuous. I cant remember a fight before or since where a fighter was stopped by heat exhaustion, can you? How about one where the referee had to be replaced because of heat exhaustion? One where ringside reporters described “conditions which might have made Dante’s Inferno seem like a refrigerator.”? Robinson was defeated by the heat, not by anything Maxim did in the ring. He neither absorbed a large amount of punishment, nor was he hurt by and huge shots that would contribute to the fight ending. Environmental factors are what stopped SRR that night, not Maxim. You can just watch the fight also, and see how much bigger Maxim was, and how much harder Robinson had to work because of the size difference. And how the heat beat Robinson. Robinson for his part demonstrated why he is such a great champion. Even fading from heat exhaustion and dehydration, he still kept his composure, and kept fighting, and winning, right up until his body started to shut down. To call this a good win, instead of a close call for maxim is dubious at best, and I am fairly sure that you are aware of that. You could just modify your position to "neither was a great win for either guy, just a name past their best on their resume." I set this to start after Robinson had already started to fade from the heat. Just so you can see how handily he was winning, even when fading.

Cant tell if you are kidding or not. Robinson was ahead on all cards and retired due to heat exhaustion. The fight took place 2 days after a torrential rains postponed the fight, and on one of the hottest days recorded in newyork history. If you have ever lived on the east coast, you know what that humid after rain heat does, then throw you under the hot lights. I mean honestly, it was so hot, they had to swap out the ref after the 10th round due to him suffering from heat exhaustion himself. If you watch the fight, you can see it was the heat that got to SRR not Joey Maxim. You could see the heat just start to sap the energy from SRR, who was not known for stamina issues by around the 9th round. dude they both boxed in teh same room. this sport is contingent on you coming out for the bell every round. don't call it a fluke when one guy can come out for the bell and another cannot. and certainly don't compare a win over robinson as close to his prime as anybody who beat him other than lamotta to a win over a horribly faded henry armstrong, considered a footnote on robinson's record by any boxing historian. dude touted that win like it was the best thing since sliced bread, and it shows just how little of the context of boxing in 1935ish-1958ish that he's absorbed. maxim's win over robinson the best win ever? of course not? but is it a better win than robinson's win over armstrong absolutely. with a bullet! just trust me if you don't understand that, this guy certainly does not.

What ATG list we talking about everyone has a different list,,,,,,,, a Ferris wheel of would could should.

I just watched duran vs leonard, mayweather would SCHOOL duran LMFAO :rofl: :rofl: :usa: :usa: YEah right.. Leonard would beat Mayweather fairly easily and Duran beat Leonard that night in Montreal.

Indenial and delusional. I prove facts you just talk. How you got your rep is beyond me lol. Have a nice day Sir Shane and Oscar both fought him. How is that ducking?

Nobody ducked floyd, ever. He is known for ducking several fighters though. And no, he wasnt in their division. You said it yourself. Indenial and delusional. I prove facts you just talk. How you got your rep is beyond me lol. Have a nice day Sir

Lmaoo you are pathetic. He was in their division you were wrong, go away. They ducked him because they were scared point blank period. Nobody ducked floyd, ever. He is known for ducking several fighters though. And no, he wasnt in their division. You said it yourself.

It's possible he could surpass Mayweather but were talking about Duran and Mayweather. Don't know what Canelo has to do with it. You said Mayweather hasn’t faced anyone like Duran I said Canelo will be better than Duran

Canelo will go on to have a better career imo. It's possible he could surpass Mayweather but were talking about Duran and Mayweather. Don't know what Canelo has to do with it.

That works both ways. Mayweather never fought a prime fighter with the skills of Duran. Canelo will go on to have a better career imo.

Easily bro too quick defense too good especially a prime Mayweather it would be an easy UD. The “power” would be a non issue. Duran never knocked out an elite fighter with the defense of FM. That works both ways. Mayweather never fought a prime fighter with the skills of Duran.

I just watched duran vs leonard, mayweather would SCHOOL duran LMFAO :rofl: :rofl: :usa: :usa: Easily bro too quick defense too good especially a prime Mayweather it would be an easy UD. The “power” would be a non issue. Duran never knocked out an elite fighter with the defense of FM.

Feel stupid about what? He was calling out guys who werent in the same division. It was silly then and now. He moved up later, so what? He still didnt fight either guy in their prime. So whats the big deal? Do we give Oscar big credit for beating an old Chavez? No. As a matter of fact, floyd chose to avoid the better prime welters and even said so after the Hatton fight. “Im not trying to fight no welterweights”. Lmaoo you are pathetic. He was in their division you were wrong, go away. They ducked him because they were scared point blank period.

Did Mikey Garcia move up to WW after he called out Spence like Floyd did????? lmaooo He called Oscar and Shane out on January 2005 he fought his first Welterweight fight on November 2005 lmaooooo. What horrible excuse do you have now It just shows you how biased youall are and I really think it’s something else. I bet you feel stupid you really thought you had it figured out. Everybody on the HBO broadcast know them dudes didn’t want to fight Floyd at that time from Roy Jones to Lampley. Even Roy said the risk is too high for them to fight Floyd. Calling someone out doesnt mean **** unless you are willing to get in their face and move up to their weight. Floyd did neither He moved up to their weight same year he called them out. Stick to hockey Feel stupid about what? He was calling out guys who werent in the same division. It was silly then and now. He moved up later, so what? He still didnt fight either guy in their prime. So whats the big deal? Do we give Oscar big credit for beating an old Chavez? No. As a matter of fact, floyd chose to avoid the better prime welters and even said so after the Hatton fight. “Im not trying to fight no welterweights”.

I named 4 fighters and out of the 4 that’s who you chose to compare to Ken Buchanan smh. Juan Marquez will likely get in the HOF also. Didn’t Duran lowblow a Buchanan and didn’t he duck Buchanan years later? Was he suspended and stripped for ducking out on two contracts he agreed to rematch Ken Buchanan? I think it’s in one of my old magazines I’d have to do some digging it’ll take me a few hours I had a freak accident at work so I’m kind of handicapped lol

Cant tell if you are kidding or not. Robinson was ahead on all cards and retired due to heat exhaustion. The fight took place 2 days after a torrential rains postponed the fight, and on one of the hottest days recorded in newyork history. If you have ever lived on the east coast, you know what that humid after rain heat does, then throw you under the hot lights. I mean honestly, it was so hot, they had to swap out the ref after the 10th round due to him suffering from heat exhaustion himself. If you watch the fight, you can see it was the heat that got to SRR not Joey Maxim. You could see the heat just start to sap the energy from SRR, who was not known for stamina issues by around the 9th round. I like this! I like a non biased opinion. It seems like “certain” fighters get the benefit of doubt for everything. If FM had won in that fashion we’d CERTAINLY never hear the end of it. There would be all types of conspiracy theories like the fight was fixed. Heck they barely give him credit for Victor Ortiz. I mean Joey barely won 2 rounds but if you look at these comments you’d swear he beat SRR down. It’s so obvious they never seen the fight.

Hank Lundy can't even beat a dead man. Damn. Typo boy lol what happened to that dude anyway

Are you trying to rewrite history for your hero Oscar was basically at 147/154 while Floyd was at lower weights! So calling out Oscar was like me calling out someone when I know that there would not be a fight happening. Once Floyd moved up to at least 147, Oscar was basically retired and more of a promoter. When he decided to come back, he fought Floyd. Floyd fought at 147 the same year he called Oscar out smart guy. Come up with a better excuse because that ain’t it son. At least brush up on boxing history before you come here making up lies. You know nothing about boxing you just come here to troll. What’s the next excuse. So think about it. If you were Oscar or Mosley, when would you have had a better chance of beating Floyd in their prime or when Floyd was in his prime and they were ready to retire? So how can you say that they were running scared? :lol1: It doesn't even make any sense!!! They fought Floyd when they lost almost all of their advantages! Lmaooo that logic applies to FM also. He wasn’t in his Prime when he fought Mosley unless you consider 34 being prime. Honestly, do you even know what you’re talking about or are you trolling? Do you even know what prime means? You just talking now lmao. I can say they were running scared because they didn’t want to fight him when he was brutally beating down opponents. You do know Floyd has birthdays right? He doesn’t stay the same age bro

Are you trying to rewrite history for your hero Floyd? Even the tooth incident was not quite accurate. Mosley had just fought 2 times that year and was already planning to take some time off so the November date made no sense for him. He had said that he would be willing to fight Floyd a month or 2 later than November. Floyd didn't want to do that and instead fought Baldomir!!!! Why fight Baldomir instead of Mosley when he was planning to retire? WOW! I remember Mosley bringing all of this up in interviews. https://youtu.be/OPJhvYXKZK8 The interview with Shane starts at :50 seconds tell me where he said “he would fight him a month or two later” like you said. He tried to hide behind Margarito tbh. Lmaooooo you’re wrong about everything you just come here to troll and lie. I’m bringing facts you’re bringing distorted lies. So what is the real reason you don’t like FM that you’d have to make up stuff. When did you start watching boxing? http://i64.tinypic.com/2nqbaxv.jpg Im killing you lol and any unbiased person will tell you that