The Heavyweight Division Hierarchy Got Clearer Yesterday...

Ok let me clarify my view here although some of these I never even brought up so you have made assumptions. Firstly Ortiz opponent, do I think he suddenly turned a bum overnight? Well no, Parker best him when he was not any good either is the simple answer. I posted a thread on here where someone suggested a 7/8 round ko would cement his place in top3 thatany win wouldn’t be enough - and that I fully expected within 3 rounds a victory - that proved to be the case. In terms of AJ, I was bringing him into it at all but unquestionably his resume is stronger and unquestionably he has rose quicker. Is that luck? Well no, because Hearn/Joshua and latterly McCracken have selected his opponents really sensibly. Butt if you took boxrec for example on current fighters , which obviously excludes klitschko and has worsened as a result of last nights results , Joshua has: Beaten 1 (Whyte) of top 5 and scheduled to fight another (povetkin). He also has beaten breazeale and Parker who are top15. What this does mean is he has many other options near top of the rankings now. Deontay in comparison, who has been around much longer and champion longer has chosen not to take the same sort of fights on so has only fought Ortiz (#8) in top ten. Now boxrec now does appear odd , for each example bellew in 4th and Parker even despite the loss probably shouldn’t be as low as 13th but it still a reasonable benchmark. Wilder for me, if he isn’t going to take Joshua or Whyte need some to take at least one of those top ten. Breazeale and kownacki aren’t ideal as both would be considered lower level but probably as good as he can go for now. I personally would prefer him to take the Whyte fight on! Boxrec's rankings I take with a grain of salt at best. I think AJ has one "elite" win on his entire resume and that is a faded Wlad. Wilder's elite win is a better one and Ortiz is still working with live ammo to this day. I get folks wanting to make the argument that AJ's resume is better but I prefer the carefully matched argument and I acknowlege that early on, Wilder was also carefully matched. But the last few years, Wilder has tried to fight as good or better competition as Wilder. It just hasn't worked out, mostly due to 3 of his opponents flunking drug tests. One of those fighters is AJ's next opponent so this should be interesting. I think Wilder does fight Breazeale or Kownacki by year's end, unless he can get a bigger name into the ring. And I don't think Wilder will take Hearn's bait for Chisora anymore than he did for Whyte. The next and only Matchroom fighter Wilder wants is AJ. If I was Finkel and Haymon tho, I would takes some of the 50M war-chest I had for AJ and dangle part of it in front of Fury for a December date in Vegas...

Well I get where you are going and respect this take even if I do not necessarily agree. Ortiz just KTFO of a guy Parker fought and went 12 with. If he wasn't a bum when Joseph fought him, why is he one now? Wilder and AJ have a some common opponents. And more importantly, plenty of the guys each has fought have fought each other. In other words, they are basically competing in the same talent pool, so to denigrate the resume of one is almost certainly a bad mark against the other. You wanna say AJ has accomplished more in less time, you can make that argument and I will listen respectfully. But, I would counter by saying AJ has been more fortunate, has been very carefully matched and managed very well, and has been the lesser of two evils (and more lucrative) in the eyes of those who had to choose between fighting him or Deontay. And we would both have a point. Ok let me clarify my view here although some of these I never even brought up so you have made assumptions. Firstly Ortiz opponent, do I think he suddenly turned a bum overnight? Well no, Parker best him when he was not any good either is the simple answer. I posted a thread on here where someone suggested a 7/8 round ko would cement his place in top3 thatany win wouldn’t be enough - and that I fully expected within 3 rounds a victory - that proved to be the case. In terms of AJ, I was bringing him into it at all but unquestionably his resume is stronger and unquestionably he has rose quicker. Is that luck? Well no, because Hearn/Joshua and latterly McCracken have selected his opponents really sensibly. Butt if you took boxrec for example on current fighters , which obviously excludes klitschko and has worsened as a result of last nights results , Joshua has: Beaten 1 (Whyte) of top 5 and scheduled to fight another (povetkin). He also has beaten breazeale and Parker who are top15. What this does mean is he has many other options near top of the rankings now. Deontay in comparison, who has been around much longer and champion longer has chosen not to take the same sort of fights on so has only fought Ortiz (#8) in top ten. Now boxrec now does appear odd , for each example bellew in 4th and Parker even despite the loss probably shouldn’t be as low as 13th but it still a reasonable benchmark. Wilder for me, if he isn’t going to take Joshua or Whyte need some to take at least one of those top ten. Breazeale and kownacki aren’t ideal as both would be considered lower level but probably as good as he can go for now. I personally would prefer him to take the Whyte fight on!

...and while Britain has plenty to be proud of, there is good reason to believe the best heavys are in the US. The 3 fights we saw make an excellent case for this. Chisora sparked out Takam. That's both a plus and a minus for British boxing. It's great for DelBoy, who you have to root for no matter who you are (the guy is just a throwback, a classic example of a guy making a whole lot out of a little). But Takam had a controversial stoppage vs AJ and took Joseph Parker 12 rounds. What DelBoy did reflects badly on both AJ and Parker. How good are they if a washed Chisora can spark out a guy they couldn't? Yes, styles make fights and you can't make any conclusive assertions either way but it is definitely fodder for discussion. We saw Dillian Whyte beat Joseph Parker. Dillian gets a plus for beating Parker, but maybe Parker just isn't as good as some folks rated him. A few close fights with Ruiz and Takam, 2 boring fights with Hughie Fury and Cojanu...maybe Parker was more fortunate than good. And BTW, Parker has an extra minute in that last round and perhaps we are talking about a different winner. Whyte gets credit as a plus, but the minus is Parker may not be anything more than a former beltholder who did not deserve all of his ranking. The fight with Luis Ortiz and Razvan Cojanu throws even more fat on the fire. It's very hard to keep making the case that Ortiz is not the 3rd best heavyweight in the world when he does things like he did last night. Sparking out a guy in 2 rounds that went 12 with Parker is a statement no matter what you want to say about Luis. It puts the lie to any sentiments about his age as well. Ortiz is clearly the most skilled guy in the division and remains in good enough shape to not only compete but be counted as among the best. I think it is clear that 2 of the top 3 guys (Wilder and Ortiz) fight in the US. And, with the addition of Jarrell Miller, it is probably 3 out of the top 5 or 6. British heavyweight boxing is indeed at an all-time high, especially if you throw in Bellew and Tyson Fury. But, the US can still make a very legit claim to having the best in the division. Don't get too excited about Ortiz win against Cojanu, Cojanu got knocked out by Donovan Dennis in 2 rounds also. Lol, Ortiz is not American. Wilder, Miller, Breazeale, Washington, those guys are American.

Ortiz lives in Miami and will most likely become a citizen. It's not like he's going to keep claiming Cuba forever. If Ortiz lived in the UK, they could claim him too! I know that he lives there, but he's a product of the Cuban school. Fought in amateurs for Cuba. His trainer is Cuban. That's the difference beetwen him and guys like Wilder and Miller who have trained and learned boxing in USA. Thinking OP's way Kovalev, GGG, Loma and dozens of other non-American could all be claimed by the US which is laughable.

Nah. AJ, Wilder and Povetkin round out the top 3. Ortiz is probably #4 though.

Definitely seems less clear to me. It seems a golden age of heavyweight boxing. So many big fights to he made and big questions to be answered. I doubt we see 10 years of domination from anybody, even though that is Joshua's ambition, with the level of competition he fights it's inevitable he will be dethroned one day. There are some great fights that can be made over the next 4 or 5 years. Joshua Wilder Povetkin Whyte Miller T. Fury Parker Ortiz Chisora Usyk Bellew H. Fury Joyce Dubois Gorman Hrgovic Kownacki Ruiz Jr Kabayel Yoka Let's enjoy it. In no particular order, that's the top 20 fighters in the world right there. Disagree. I have said it before and have no problem repeating it. When it is all said and done, AJ will be the guy that dominates this era. Problem is, Hearn is on his way to fugging up that legacy chasing dollars. This, when there is plenty for everyone. AJ is not going to be undefeated thru this era he dominates. Then again, neither was Lewis or Wlad after him. But, those guys weren't great simply because they won all the time. Part of the reason they became great was how they dealt with adversity and loss. They learned early and were better for it in the long run. AJ needs to fight Ortiz. He needs to fight Wilder. Even if he loses. He is still young enough to avenge the losses and learn from them.

Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums. If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear! Definitely seems less clear to me. It seems a golden age of heavyweight boxing. So many big fights to he made and big questions to be answered. I doubt we see 10 years of domination from anybody, even though that is Joshua's ambition, with the level of competition he fights it's inevitable he will be dethroned one day. There are some great fights that can be made over the next 4 or 5 years. Joshua Wilder Povetkin Whyte Miller T. Fury Parker Ortiz Chisora Usyk Bellew H. Fury Joyce Dubois Gorman Hrgovic Kownacki Ruiz Jr Kabayel Yoka Let's enjoy it. In no particular order, that's the top 20 fighters in the world right there.

Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums. If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear! Well I get where you are going and respect this take even if I do not necessarily agree. Ortiz just KTFO of a guy Parker fought and went 12 with. If he wasn't a bum when Joseph fought him, why is he one now? Wilder and AJ have a some common opponents. And more importantly, plenty of the guys each has fought have fought each other. In other words, they are basically competing in the same talent pool, so to denigrate the resume of one is almost certainly a bad mark against the other. You wanna say AJ has accomplished more in less time, you can make that argument and I will listen respectfully. But, I would counter by saying AJ has been more fortunate, has been very carefully matched and managed very well, and has been the lesser of two evils (and more lucrative) in the eyes of those who had to choose between fighting him or Deontay. And we would both have a point.

Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums. If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear!

okay so you know full well his resume is ****e, good. No, I know it is better as I said. I just don't care to prove or disprove anything to folks like yourself who aren't really boxing aficionados anyway. You like a few fighters and as soon as they lose, you will go silent or even disappear for a while.

who exactly is on that resume..... no bull**** just give me some names. Dude, why do you expect me to respond to anything you ask without apologizing for your past disrespect? You can find the names yourself. They are there and they aint British commonwealth champions either...

Chisora is years passed being even a fringe contender. He, Parker and Whyte are all pretty much at the same level now. They can be fun to watch and can put on a good show but let’s non confuse that with being top level fighters. Parker is the most skilled of an unskilled bunch but he I just isn’t fit enough to get the job done.

so whyte and chisora beat much better fighters than ortiz and that proves ortiz is better..... Who? Who are the "much better fighters" they beat? Whyte struggled and went 12 with a guy Ortiz sparked out. Chisora's best win in his last 10 fights (which includes a clear loss to Pulev and a controversial one to Whyte) was last nite vs Takam who is himself a fringe contender at best. Ortiz has a better resume than both combined. And his loss to Wilder trumps any win the others have.

so whyte and chisora beat much better fighters than ortiz and that proves ortiz is better.....

The UK is claiming Parker if the US are claiming Ortiz https://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/animated-flag-gif/gifs/New-Zealand_240-animated-flag-gifs.gif I know he's not worth much, but neither is this thread

Keep Smoking that stuff you smoke You Wilder fans will soon vanish from the forum when he gets knocked out by whyte or aj Trash that’s what Americans hw boxing is and that’s what you all are on here. Until wilder finds his balls and stops ducking whyte or aj, he is not even in the top 10 heavies

Watch some folks take that to mean I am saying Parker is fake. Nothing is further from the truth. He is still young, still has a chance to live up to what was clearly a little hype. I don't think he's a fake, but putting him in the top 5 is nonsense.

UK heavyweight scene is miles ahead of the US at this moment in time. No bias, just facts. But then why should anyone care? As boxing fans just want to see good fights right? We all want to see Joshua v Wilder. But I won't see it as UK v USA unlike most on here. This is boxing, not football (soccer).

...and while Britain has plenty to be proud of, there is good reason to believe the best heavys are in the US. The 3 fights we saw make an excellent case for this. Chisora sparked out Takam. That's both a plus and a minus for British boxing. It's great for DelBoy, who you have to root for no matter who you are (the guy is just a throwback, a classic example of a guy making a whole lot out of a little). But Takam had a controversial stoppage vs AJ and took Joseph Parker 12 rounds. What DelBoy did reflects badly on both AJ and Parker. How good are they if a washed Chisora can spark out a guy they couldn't? Yes, styles make fights and you can't make any conclusive assertions either way but it is definitely fodder for discussion. We saw Dillian Whyte beat Joseph Parker. Dillian gets a plus for beating Parker, but maybe Parker just isn't as good as some folks rated him. A few close fights with Ruiz and Takam, 2 boring fights with Hughie Fury and Cojanu...maybe Parker was more fortunate than good. And BTW, Parker has an extra minute in that last round and perhaps we are talking about a different winner. Whyte gets credit as a plus, but the minus is Parker may not be anything more than a former beltholder who did not deserve all of his ranking. The fight with Luis Ortiz and Razvan Cojanu throws even more fat on the fire. It's very hard to keep making the case that Ortiz is not the 3rd best heavyweight in the world when he does things like he did last night. Sparking out a guy in 2 rounds that went 12 with Parker is a statement no matter what you want to say about Luis. It puts the lie to any sentiments about his age as well. Ortiz is clearly the most skilled guy in the division and remains in good enough shape to not only compete but be counted as among the best. I think it is clear that 2 of the top 3 guys (Wilder and Ortiz) fight in the US. And, with the addition of Jarrell Miller, it is probably 3 out of the top 5 or 6. British heavyweight boxing is indeed at an all-time high, especially if you throw in Bellew and Tyson Fury. But, the US can still make a very legit claim to having the best in the division. So what you're saying is UK could've claimed Ortiz when he was a Hearn fighter? What about big baby?

Nothing you can say will change the fact that Wilder KOs Joshua. Sorry bud. Keep smoking that stuff, it must be good.