A reasonable discussion on the Middleweight division

Well I mean okay, but its not like there are THAT many guys who'd need to be in play here. If we got 4 title holders that means we need 4 out of the indie top 10 to fight them in theory. And maybe everyone isn't fighting on the same schedule & then once guys win or lose then guys move out of or into the top 10 or into or out of a title. Its ever influx. This is understandable, but we know Derevyanchenko was ready to fight on short notice & ready to fight for short money from all I've heard. And me personally I've tried to mention with my disapproval of Vanes & angling towards GGG vs a real 160lb contender that I'd have had lil issue with them pushing back the fight date by 2-6wks or w/e they needed to do properly train for a new opponent. Cuz while I like the drama of a high level short notice fight I think it can often turn into an unfair advantage based on the shape someone was in or what they were originally training for. I'd rather a title holder + a contender be given a proper time table to train & to train for the specific opponent they will be fighting. I think there is some truth to that. But again its the dumbest guys who do it & I think we give those guys too much dominance of controlling the narrative that just isn't true. So pretty much when you are calling everyone outside of 7 of the guys on the P4P list bums I know your opinion holds lil value to me. I'm not seeing this so much doe I must say. I see people excited about the prospect of what Charlo & Derevyanchenko might be able to do. And there is always the vocal dummies saying dummy sh^t, but largely people see GGG & Canelo as up on top & they see this 2nd tier of very promising guys who are already top 5ish caliber guys & ready to succeed or fail vs GGG & Canelo or each other & they will be doing that soon enough. And Derevyanchenko should have been given his opportunity to do just that tomorrow or sometime in June. Yea idk about any of this. I know Vanes hasn't fought in 2 years. I know Vanes hasn't won a fight in 3 years. I know his best W is over Ishe Smith (37yrs, who'd lost 2 of his last 4 going into his fight with Vanes). I know his second best W is probably over Willie Lee (17-5, retired at 17-7) or Saul Roman (who'd lost 3 of his last 5). I know Vanes isn't a ranked contender for any 160lb belt. I know if boxing was on the up & up with two years of inactivity & three years of no W's Vanes shouldn't be ranked by any non-corrupt ABC Group. The threshold for a fight shouldn't be "he's not a complete bum". One of my biggest pet peeves in boxing is the matchmatching & whats sanctioned by commissions & there is absolutely no reason a fight with what should be a unranked 154lber who's not won in 3 years vs a guy who's the #1 guy at 160 & who's been unbeaten in a 13 year, 38 fight career should be made or sanctioned late notice or not. Again I take extreme issue with you telling me a guy who's not fought in 2 years & who's not won a fight in 3 years is a top 20 guy. Do you honestly believe a guy who's not fought for 2 years should be ranked at all? Do you honestly believe a guy who's not won a fight in 3 years should be ranked in the top 20?Part I agree with is Derevyanchenko. He was ready to fight and didn't make any noise about money. Loeffler ducked him and made 'money' excuse. However my point stands. Derevyanchenko's best win is either Tureano, who most people consider another Domenic Wade, or Sam Soliman, who was over 40 years old. In my personal experience, I think SD is one of the top5 MWs based on my eye test. But his resume does not exist, just like Charlo's. I'll say this first, I think Vanes is tailor made for Golovkin and think he'll knock him out. HOWEVER, the way you're looking at Vanes is absolutely wrong. Yes, Vanes has not won in 3 years, and his best win is Ishe Smith. However, he drew with Lara, #1 guy at SWW. He lost 2 close decisions against Charlo, who's currently top3 SWW, and against Andrade, who's ~top5 MW. He also put Andrade down. Very often a loss counts much more than a win. Any of the 3 losses I mentioned count more than ANYTHING Derevyanchenko or Charlo have done - on paper. The only knock on Vanes is his inactivity over the last 2 years. We don't know how that has affected him. He's not Maidana. He didn't get fat and retire. He had a series of fights fall through. He'll be rusty, but we don't know if this is Vanes cashing out, or just a fighter taking on the biggest fight of his life.

Yes, I do believe you're right, but he's got me on ignore... I called him out too many times and he couldn't handle it Jubei for realz? take him off ignore bruh you cant really be a hypocrite with ggg and have others on ignore.... DO it now or ill put you on ignore for the entire weekend so no commenting for you in the ggg thread :D

no one passes jubei for that honor when it comes to ggg hes the 1st in line every time Yes, I do believe you're right, but he's got me on ignore... I called him out too many times and he couldn't handle it

I can see why people feel that way & lets not ignore the obvious that boxing is a more dangerous sport where the intent is to do damage to someone, not to score a goal or what have you, but to me the integrity of the sport would be beyond reproach if upon winning a title the quality of your opposition was at a bare minimum of a indie ranked top 10 guy for example. It would add more meaning to title defenses & length of reigns. It would prove the strength of your talent vs the consensus of the division at that time in history. And for me I hold the top P4P discussed guys under that sort of quality control & when they are fighting guys like Vanes I believe its a terrible look for boxing & makes us look like a joke to other sports fans & it feels like a joke. There's only so many people you can fight that are 'top10'. Everyone dips into the 'top20' part, unless you're fighting once a year. It's also difficult to fight top10 opponents on short notice. It has happened previously (Vitali), but it truly is rare. The actual issue here is that IMO folks on NSB tend to overreact significantly and easily hype up guys or call others absolute bums. Charlo & Derevyanchenko are world beaters now despite doing barely anything. Charlo knocked out an injured guy with 4 losses, while Derevyanchenko never fought a ~top20 opponents. I am not saying they're not good, I think they're both excellent. But they have no resume - they just pass the eye test. In another breath, Vanes is EASILY a top5 SWW. MW is 6 lbs away. It's not like he's moving 3 weight divisions and is suddenly an absolute bum. If Vanes starts campaigning at MW full time, he's top20 material without a shadow of the doubt. Vanes was inactive and on paper, doesn't have the style to beat Golovkin. Doesn't mean he's a bum and that this is a disgrace to boxing. A disgrace to boxing was Ward vs. Brand and if Golovkin vs. Munguia was made. Those are disgraces. Virtually everyone Gilberto Ramirez has fought since Abraham were disgraces. A top20 opponent on a short notice? Nothing to complain about.

Are golemovkin fans t@rded? no one passes jubei for that honor when it comes to ggg hes the 1st in line every time

I understand the need for having world-class fights in all divisions. However, coming to this forum has truly opened my eyes to the limitless stupidity of human beings. One of the biggest discussion in the past few years have been about the legitimacy of Middleweight champion, GGG. Through the years, I have only seen the bar moved farther away after each fight. 2017 was one of the biggest years of GGG's boxing career and it seems the the brigade of armchair warriors have also increased meanwhile. Fighting and keeping his belts against the top two contenders in MW in the same year is apparently not enough for a boxer anymore. Then the question arises, at what point can a boxer truly escape scrutiny? The conclusion I've come to is never. The expectations are always high, even if it has no basis or connection to reality. Every top guy of the division, not just GGG alone is apparently supposed to fight 1 world class opponent after another. This delusion pretty much instantly stops itself when one realizes how rare world class fighters are. In every division, there is hardly 1-2 A class fighters. Who are these world class opponents that a champion is supposed to defend against then? Well for one, the idea of moving up the weights has been thrown around. From a purely historical perspective, this is plain stupid. Under no circumstances should a boxer move up unless he starts very low to begin with. Why? If a boxer moves up, he is expected to keep leaping weights until he is defeated and for what? Once defeated, they turn into the very same fighters who are referred to as taxi drivers and bums. This has been seen over and over again, how the armchair 'lads' with no experience in pretty much any combat sports ****s on fighters who could break their jaws with little to no effort. As it stands, a top professional boxer can never win with the NSB crowd, which really sheds light on how much boxing discussion actually takes place here. The ****posters keep throwing in names of world beaters such as Charlos, Lara etc etc. but only until they take their first loss. Lara has seemingly hit the abyss after his last loss and looks like the fangirls have jumped to a new ship. One that of Sergiy Derevyanchenko, just like they did with the previous IBF mandatory in Trueno Johnson and Dominic Wade. TL;DR - GGG can only become top p4p if he wins against Canelo, BJS and Derevyanchenko on the same night, 1v3, while having his arms tied. Canelo et al. can keep fighting the Spike o Sullivans, Trueno Johnson and whatever leftovers come along though. This is rather pathetic... he had a VERY close fight with Jacobs and whether people like it or not, a draw with Canelo, which anyone who knows boxing, knows canelo made him look like an amateur, and landed all of the cleaner punches. People want to give canelo a hard time because of the tests, but the hair test came back negative, thus if you're a golemovkin fan, you're going to call him a cheater, if you're a canelo fan, you're going to feel he's cleared... boxing is politics, you haven't figured that out yet?

I'd argue one of the problems with boxing is too much is acceptable as is. The quality control of the product of boxing is like some 24hr mom & pop restaurant in Iowa at 3am on a holiday. Idk that the consensus was HE IS a world beater. Merely he's a top contender, a mandatory & a guy who's shown some promise along with he's about 3x the opponent of Vanes. And randomly thats all most of the top guys, like GGG, who we talk about most were at one time as well, a top contender who's shown some promise. Guys like Derevyanchenko are the guys who become the next GGG. Granted they usually fall short, but that next generation of guys look like contenders with promise more than anything else before they become what they'll become. If GGG wants to legit keep all the belts & be the one guy with the belts he should be more mindful of mandatorys. Randomly I will say I do think GGG has "given up" for lack of a better way to put it. I think thats what his PED tirade was about. He was frustrated, he was mad, he was sick of being treated like a second class citizen in boxing despite all he's done. He was tired of being grateful. And he's tired of these belts & their bs. I think GGG got all up in his emotions for the first time in his professional boxing career & he made a bunch of poor decisions that may or may not bite him in the ass in the near or distant future. I think GGG just wants to get a few fights, a few more big paydays out of the way & he's walking off into the sunset. If Canelo is one of them great. If not thats great to, but dude is kinda done with all the politics & bs I feel like. Or at least at this moment in time. He may chill a lil more after this Vanes fight. He may chill a lil more if he's stripped of the IBF title. But I'm not entirely confident in all that. If you think that many mfers are against GGG I think you need to learn to count. As I stated most mfers can't even be bothered to give enough of a f#ck to comment on most of these dumb posts by a small minority of guys. And for the most part there are always a nice lil segment of 5-10 guys who'll make the same thread over & over & all us who know the routine just ignore them while the noobs & guys who just like to cherry pick arguments with dumb mfers will engage them & keep these dumb ass threads high on the page. You guys sooooooo don't get it. The more you engage & entertain the dumbest mfers here the more the standard of the forum drops cuz you are engaging these dumb mfers keeping them coming back. Too many of you "smart" guys will make thread after thread cherry picking these stupid mfers like you are doing some public service or something by calling them out or w/e. Thats retarded. You don't feed the stray cat unless you want it to comeback to your house. Ignore the dipsh^ts here. And quit acting like swatting back their stupid arguments/opinions that are easily taken apart piece by piece is doing anything good for this site. You not engaging with cats who can't make sensible & reasonable arguments will get rid of them quicker, quiet them down or get them doing/saying extreme enough sh^t to get them banned in a bid for your attention. I argue with those guys all the time. I enjoy it. It's easy to get them to freak out..Probably shouldn't do it though.

oh please cut the crap.... he fights vs 154 lbs even kell brook who was 147 lbs but when it came to andre ward he never wanted to move up and if he did it was 164 lbs... thats a bit hypocritical imo and also hypocritical of his fans to defend such nonsense Are golemovkin fans t@rded?

I understand the need for having world-class fights in all divisions. However, coming to this forum has truly opened my eyes to the limitless stupidity of human beings. One of the biggest discussion in the past few years have been about the legitimacy of Middleweight champion, GGG. Through the years, I have only seen the bar moved farther away after each fight. 2017 was one of the biggest years of GGG's boxing career and it seems the the brigade of armchair warriors have also increased meanwhile. Fighting and keeping his belts against the top two contenders in MW in the same year is apparently not enough for a boxer anymore. Then the question arises, at what point can a boxer truly escape scrutiny? The conclusion I've come to is never. The expectations are always high, even if it has no basis or connection to reality. Every top guy of the division, not just GGG alone is apparently supposed to fight 1 world class opponent after another. This delusion pretty much instantly stops itself when one realizes how rare world class fighters are. In every division, there is hardly 1-2 A class fighters. Who are these world class opponents that a champion is supposed to defend against then? Well for one, the idea of moving up the weights has been thrown around. From a purely historical perspective, this is plain stupid. Under no circumstances should a boxer move up unless he starts very low to begin with. Why? If a boxer moves up, he is expected to keep leaping weights until he is defeated and for what? Once defeated, they turn into the very same fighters who are referred to as taxi drivers and bums. This has been seen over and over again, how the armchair 'lads' with no experience in pretty much any combat sports ****s on fighters who could break their jaws with little to no effort. As it stands, a top professional boxer can never win with the NSB crowd, which really sheds light on how much boxing discussion actually takes place here. The ****posters keep throwing in names of world beaters such as Charlos, Lara etc etc. but only until they take their first loss. Lara has seemingly hit the abyss after his last loss and looks like the fangirls have jumped to a new ship. One that of Sergiy Derevyanchenko, just like they did with the previous IBF mandatory in Trueno Johnson and Dominic Wade. TL;DR - GGG can only become top p4p if he wins against Canelo, BJS and Derevyanchenko on the same night, 1v3, while having his arms tied. Canelo et al. can keep fighting the Spike o Sullivans, Trueno Johnson and whatever leftovers come along though. oh please cut the crap.... he fights vs 154 lbs even kell brook who was 147 lbs but when it came to andre ward he never wanted to move up and if he did it was 164 lbs... thats a bit hypocritical imo and also hypocritical of his fans to defend such nonsense

as i stated most mfers can't even be bothered to give enough of a f#ck to comment on most of these dumb posts by a small minority of guys. And for the most part there are always a nice lil segment of 5-10 guys who'll make the same thread over & over & all us who know the routine just ignore them while the noobs & guys who just like to cherry pick arguments with dumb mfers will engage them & keep these dumb ass threads high on the page. This right here^

First off GGG being legit is a stupid discussion. Of course he's legit. If you or anyone else don't think he's legit #1 in the division you are some other dudes fanboy, a GGG hater or just got dropped on your head as a baby. You had to figure this one out? NO ONE escapes scrutiny. Everything is ALWAYS on the table & UP FOR GRABS in a competitive world like professional boxing. With how the multiple titles have destroyed the term champion I believe you can lose the "real title/#1 spot" without losing a fight today thats how much scrutiny is on guys. For me I considered GGG the champion at 160 after Sergio made it apparent he didn't wanna fight GGG & as GGG improved the guys he fought. And I stripped Adonis Stevenson of his #1 standing with me once he kept fighting bs guy after bs guy while Kovalev was fighting superior opposition. Since there is 4 or more "champions" & since the champions don't fight like they used to in previous multiple title generations I think this is all fair play that you can keep winning yet lose your "The Champion" standing. This is complete & utter bs. The number 1 guy in most divisions have lil extra pressure on them. Now there are a handful of P4P tip top guys, like GGG, that have higher pressure on them to fight tip top (I say top 5 guys in a division minus mandatory situations obviously) more often since they are considered among the best guys in all of boxing. This happens all the time & was the same in the Floyd & Manny years. Manny took sh^t for David Diaz type fights. And as a big Floyd fan from childhood til now one of my biggest disappointments in Floyd's career was him ending it (the 2nd or 3rd time lol) by giving Andre f#cking Berto a title shot. Berto doesn't suck, but he wasn't a top 5 guy in the division, deserving of a title shot & stands out to me as Floyd's worst opponent in a title fight for around a decade when he fought so many name + quality guys. If you listen to the idiots you aren't wrong. There are plenty of people who speak on boxing intelligently here. If you are engaging with the lowest dipsh^ts here who calls the #8 guy in the world a bum casually then yea that type of fan isn't likely to ever give many guys the respect they deserve. I try to give EVERYONE who boxes a level of respect, but then again that doesn't mean I can't or won't be critical of them. This is a competitive world. If you are slacking its very possible someone else is doing more or will be doing more. #1 is a flimsy spot to be & maybe more so now with the stuff I said earlier talking about you don't even need to necessarily lose to lose the #1 spot these days since the guys who should be fighting fight so seldom like they did in past eras. Okay now you just went to stupidtown. Who the f#ck was on the Wade War Wagon??????? Granted there were & are guys riding with the other guys mentioned, but I don't see how giving credit to guys on the rise takes away from a guy more proven like GGG. Theres levels to this sh^t. And no one is saying Charlo or Derevyanchenko is on the level of GGG yet or that they can definitely be one day. Both have massive questions on themselves still & got things to prove vs GGG or other top guys. But the thing is they are in that top 5 mix of guys right now so they should be given that opportunity to succeed or fail in proving themselves vs GGG or Canelo or even other top guys. GGG is a P4P discussed guy right now lmfao. Worse TLDR everrrrrr. Sh^t man I think most cats got GGG in the top 3 P4P. All most of us wanna see is good fights. I don't ride or die with many mfers. I do enjoy & respect many mfers. But the reality is boxing is one of the only sports where you can compete against lower level guys in big events & I personally hate that & think it makes boxing look like & feel like a joke sport. This Cinco de Mayo date is a BIG FIGHT DATE. And to me GGG is pissing on the big fight status of this date by fighting an inactive, smaller guy, on late notice, who's never fought in this weight division. GGG needed to fight his mandatory, Derevyanchenko, who was ready to come in late just like Vanes or to push back this date for a month or several weeks to have more time to properly train for a more suitable replacement for this big fight date. Thats all I or most who side more with me than you are thinking. We don't need to see GGG with one hand tied behind his back or that other bs you brought up we just want to see him fight deserving contenders in his own weight division & not bs opponents. https://media1.tenor.com/images/d1b7019245856b67ac465230d8b5b928/tenor.gif?itemid=9602869

Lol, when you see a thread in NSB titled "reasonable discussion", you know it's going to be anything but. :lol1: Yes indeed... it gets awesome

I can see why people feel that way & lets not ignore the obvious that boxing is a more dangerous sport where the intent is to do damage to someone, not to score a goal or what have you, but to me the integrity of the sport would be beyond reproach if upon winning a title the quality of your opposition was at a bare minimum of a indie ranked top 10 guy for example. It would add more meaning to title defenses & length of reigns. It would prove the strength of your talent vs the consensus of the division at that time in history. And for me I hold the top P4P discussed guys under that sort of quality control & when they are fighting guys like Vanes I believe its a terrible look for boxing & makes us look like a joke to other sports fans & it feels like a joke. I don't think there's any need to worry what fans of other sports think about fights like GGG/Martirosyan, because very few of them know who the legit top 10 are in any division. They won't have heard of Martirosyan ... and they won't have heard of Derevyenchenko or Andrade either! So you won't hear any grumbling from casuals about why is GGG fighting this guy instead of his mando. "Mando .. uh? Who da fukk is that guy .. Mando? Never heard of him either ..." :lol1:

gggee is a good fighter but his resume is nothing to write home about and its just a fact, just like some of the fighters I like don't have the best resumes. thing is I don't go around trashing other fighters resumes and then jump tooth n nail to defend my fighters resume like a lot of gggee fans do.

I can see why people feel that way & lets not ignore the obvious that boxing is a more dangerous sport where the intent is to do damage to someone, not to score a goal or what have you, but to me the integrity of the sport would be beyond reproach if upon winning a title the quality of your opposition was at a bare minimum of a indie ranked top 10 guy for example. It would add more meaning to title defenses & length of reigns. It would prove the strength of your talent vs the consensus of the division at that time in history. And for me I hold the top P4P discussed guys under that sort of quality control & when they are fighting guys like Vanes I believe its a terrible look for boxing & makes us look like a joke to other sports fans & it feels like a joke. I've read all your posts and fair enough, you wanted a better opponent and so did many. However, given the context, it is hardly unacceptable. Not to mention, the only other name I saw popping around which made sense was Derev but I'm not sure why everyone keeps jumping on that train like he is a world beater. Is it because he is IBF mandatory? Well, Dominic Wade was too and so was Trueno Johnson and I can remember pretty well what most of the people(not only 10% for sure) thought about those matchups with GGG. As far as I can see, Vanes has more experience than Derev, and GGG is likely having a good fight afterwards so all the whining of the '10% mfkers' is just pathetic from all angles. However, if GGG doesn't take a decent fight afterwards, you can count me in on scrutinizing him as well. I can find no reason in hating this fight when GGG was willing to fight Jacobs and Canelo twice in a row. Very few fighters will ever attempt that kind of schedule. No fighter should escape criticism but those must be well founded. You are kidding yourself if you think its only a few bad apples who ruin discussions. It happens in every single thread, where boring jokes are repeated and the fights are hardly analyzed. The essence of my first post was that because of these 'few' people, the overall standard of this forum has dropped as far as I can see.

Some good points overshadowed by a bit of fanboyism. Eff Pandas covered majority of it. The only part I really disagree with is this one: This is complete & utter bs. The number 1 guy in most divisions have lil extra pressure on them. Now there are a handful of P4P tip top guys, like GGG, that have higher pressure on them to fight tip top (I say top 5 guys in a division minus mandatory situations obviously) more often since they are considered among the best guys in all of boxing. This happens all the time & was the same in the Floyd & Manny years. Manny took sh^t for David Diaz type fights. And as a big Floyd fan from childhood til now one of my biggest disappointments in Floyd's career was him ending it (the 2nd or 3rd time lol) by giving Andre f#cking Berto a title shot. Berto doesn't suck, but he wasn't a top 5 guy in the division, deserving of a title shot & stands out to me as Floyd's worst opponent in a title fight for around a decade when he fought so many name + quality guys. Yes, expectations are high, and yes, we want to see big fights. But holding 'meh' fights against fighters is not right. Just like in the work place, everyone has days when they just say 'eh, I don't feel like working today'. No fighter will ever fight murderer's row all consecutively. In my eyes, after taking on a real challenger a fighter is allowed 1 'meh' fight. That should be the ratio - 1:1. Golovkin fought Jacobs and Canelo back to back, he absolutely deserves a stay busy fight.

GGG has only ever faced 3 top level guys Kell Brook- Wasnt even the best WW, and GGG got hit a lot in that fight Daniel Jacobs- A very close fight where GGG did not look impressive Canelo- Missed most of his punches and got a draw For a long career spanning nearly 40 fights its disgraceful, hes not a great fighter. Hes a champ who beat C class fighters his whole career, we dont even know if he can beat Lara, Hurd, Andrade or the Charlo Brothers. Those are 5 guys who apart from Canelo and Jacobs are better than the rest of GGGs opponents thus far. Lara isnt even the best of the bunch and he arguably won against Canelo If GGG actually took risks and fought and beat all the above names Id consider him a great fighter, but as of now not even close. He fought in his weight class his whole career. These guys you mentioned either just moved up or are in a lower class. What's the problem. The problem is when it comes to Golovkin his detractors keep moving the goal posts.

First off GGG being legit is a stupid discussion. Of course he's legit. If you or anyone else don't think he's legit #1 in the division you are some other dudes fanboy, a GGG hater or just got dropped on your head as a baby. You had to figure this one out? NO ONE escapes scrutiny. Everything is ALWAYS on the table & UP FOR GRABS in a competitive world like professional boxing. With how the multiple titles have destroyed the term champion I believe you can lose the "real title/#1 spot" without losing a fight today thats how much scrutiny is on guys. For me I considered GGG the champion at 160 after Sergio made it apparent he didn't wanna fight GGG & as GGG improved the guys he fought. And I stripped Adonis Stevenson of his #1 standing with me once he kept fighting bs guy after bs guy while Kovalev was fighting superior opposition. Since there is 4 or more "champions" & since the champions don't fight like they used to in previous multiple title generations I think this is all fair play that you can keep winning yet lose your "The Champion" standing. This is complete & utter bs. The number 1 guy in most divisions have lil extra pressure on them. Now there are a handful of P4P tip top guys, like GGG, that have higher pressure on them to fight tip top (I say top 5 guys in a division minus mandatory situations obviously) more often since they are considered among the best guys in all of boxing. This happens all the time & was the same in the Floyd & Manny years. Manny took sh^t for David Diaz type fights. And as a big Floyd fan from childhood til now one of my biggest disappointments in Floyd's career was him ending it (the 2nd or 3rd time lol) by giving Andre f#cking Berto a title shot. Berto doesn't suck, but he wasn't a top 5 guy in the division, deserving of a title shot & stands out to me as Floyd's worst opponent in a title fight for around a decade when he fought so many name + quality guys. If you listen to the idiots you aren't wrong. There are plenty of people who speak on boxing intelligently here. If you are engaging with the lowest dipsh^ts here who calls the #8 guy in the world a bum casually then yea that type of fan isn't likely to ever give many guys the respect they deserve. I try to give EVERYONE who boxes a level of respect, but then again that doesn't mean I can't or won't be critical of them. This is a competitive world. If you are slacking its very possible someone else is doing more or will be doing more. #1 is a flimsy spot to be & maybe more so now with the stuff I said earlier talking about you don't even need to necessarily lose to lose the #1 spot these days since the guys who should be fighting fight so seldom like they did in past eras. Okay now you just went to stupidtown. Who the f#ck was on the Wade War Wagon??????? Granted there were & are guys riding with the other guys mentioned, but I don't see how giving credit to guys on the rise takes away from a guy more proven like GGG. Theres levels to this sh^t. And no one is saying Charlo or Derevyanchenko is on the level of GGG yet or that they can definitely be one day. Both have massive questions on themselves still & got things to prove vs GGG or other top guys. But the thing is they are in that top 5 mix of guys right now so they should be given that opportunity to succeed or fail in proving themselves vs GGG or Canelo or even other top guys. GGG is a P4P discussed guy right now lmfao. Worse TLDR everrrrrr. Sh^t man I think most cats got GGG in the top 3 P4P. All most of us wanna see is good fights. I don't ride or die with many mfers. I do enjoy & respect many mfers. But the reality is boxing is one of the only sports where you can compete against lower level guys in big events & I personally hate that & think it makes boxing look like & feel like a joke sport. This Cinco de Mayo date is a BIG FIGHT DATE. And to me GGG is pissing on the big fight status of this date by fighting an inactive, smaller guy, on late notice, who's never fought in this weight division. GGG needed to fight his mandatory, Derevyanchenko, who was ready to come in late just like Vanes or to push back this date for a month or several weeks to have more time to properly train for a more suitable replacement for this big fight date. Thats all I or most who side more with me than you are thinking. We don't need to see GGG with one hand tied behind his back or that other bs you brought up we just want to see him fight deserving contenders in his own weight division & not bs opponents. I feel like you have completely missed the essence of this post and went all emotional. If you take a close look at the front page of NSB on a usual day, you will see how many of the posters are actually willing to engage in a constructive discussion. This was not an attack on any individual poster so don't take it personally. Now about the Wade discussion, you missed my sarcasm. I was implying that people are riding on the Derev hype train now but the same people failed to realize that when GGG was supposed to fight his other IBF mandatories and instead shat on him for that decision. This shows the blatant hypocrisy of most posters. They will be never happy with any fights. Even if GGG fights the top 2 of his division back to back, the bar will be moved farther away as has been seen. Even if he fights his mandatories, he will be constantly scrutinized. At times this will be constructive while other times he will be wrongfully criticized without keeping context in mind. Unfortunately, around here, it is the latter which occurs more frequently.

Great post Eff thanks for that.

No time to read this estrogen fueled short story, but will assume that it is about the middleweight division not being sh1t during most of GGG's career.