You Can't Be P4P #1 With Zero Elite Wins...

I go by the record books. You go by your emotional reaction. In the record books, Grabomir was fresh off a dominant loss when he fought Joshua - which means Joshua's win was on a guy people weren't confident could beat him. Still a notable win, but let's be real. In the record books, Anthony Joshua beat a future HOFer in Clinchko. Period. I accept that. In the record books, Manny was off TWO dominant wins when he fought The Hornet - which means the going in expectation was that Manny would walk through the dude. Manny had ONE notable round. People are giving too much credit to that round and the ref's threat. Beyond that, who was the walk forward aggressor in at LEAST 6 rounds? It wasn't Manny. In the record books, Jeff "The Hornet" Horn beat a top 10 fighter, an ATG, a future Hall of Famer, in Manny Pacquiao. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it. In the record books, Srisaket Sor Rungvisai beat a once-P4P fighter, likely a future HOF'er, in Roman 'Chocolatito' Gonzalez TWO times, once by decision, once by brutal KO. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it. You must acknowledge all three of these if you want to throw around the word "elite" in terms of who they beat. They are the only three thus far that have qualified - no matter how you "felt" about two of the three wins. You're free to have your own P4P opinion, all I'm saying is, what's good for the goose bro. You can't discredit Horn's win because Manny was washed up, yet refuse to discredit Joshua's win because Grabomir was washed up. Either they both beat washed up fighters or neither did. That's all I'm saying. I'm not the one being emotional here. The fact that you think Horn actually deserved the decision in that fight, or that Manny was anything near the best version he ever was is all the indication someone would need to assess which of us is injecting personal sentiment with little relation to objectivity. Situations count. It isn't only who you fight, but when you fight them, who they are when you fight them, and who you are when you win. I discredit Horn's win because Manny was a lesser version of himself AND HORN LOST ANYWAY. True, Manny looked good in earlier fights, but only because Bradley was himself shopworn and Vargas a non-elite contender. Horn did not deserve the decision and loses anywhere on the planet that isn't Australia. AJ's win gets full credit because WLAD looked better than he had in YEARS. This isn't emotion but fact and thank God there are plenty of folks who wrote enough about the fight such that this isn't even debatable. As for Rungvisai, I reserve judgement til I see more. Mike Tyson was the baddest man on the planet when Buster Douglas beat him. That didn't mean Buster became the baddest man on the planet. Turns out he had a good night is all. Nonito Donaire beat Vic Darchinyan and folks waited to see if it was a good night or if he was for real. Let's see whether Srisaket is Buster or Nonito.

Loma beating Rigo would not be an Elite win. Same as AJ beating Andre Ward at HW wouldnt be an elite win. Rigo is not an elite 130lber, and that is the division they are fighting. Good point. I would tend to give the win some credit though since this is a showdown a long time coming with both guys calling for it regardless of the weight. But I agree, it would mean much more if both guys were the same weight or if they had done a catchweight here.

Loma beating Rigo would not be an Elite win. Same as AJ beating Andre Ward at HW wouldnt be an elite win. Rigo is not an elite 130lber, and that is the division they are fighting.

You can't cherry pick bro. The Grabomir that got beat by Joshua - while he DID show up in good fashion - was a pale shadow of the Grabomir of old, fresh off a decisive loss that made no sense. Grabomir was nowhere near caliber when he fought Joshua, no matter how well he fought. The Manny that got beat by Jeff "The Hornet" Horn - and yes, he lost to Jeff "The Hornet" Horn - was fresh off a dominant victory over a game, prime Jessie Vargas, prior to that, a dominant victory over a game, prime Tim Bradley. Reality is, people keep saying Manny's washed up, but it's not like he was coming off a clear loss like Grabomir was. If anything, Horn's victory over Manny rates higher BECAUSE it was unexpected, versus Joshua where many felt Grabomir was going to sleep no matter what. Rungvisai won the first fight if people would ignore the fact that a southpaw/orthodox fight WILL end up in headbutts. He wasn't doing it on purpose - it's going to happen. Plus, dropping Choco on his ass early in the fight was no fluke, it was a beautiful shot that made Choco get walked back for the rest of the fight; he felt that power and kept getting caught on the inside. This is a guy that likely would have went on to beat Acne Back Cuadras had the fight not been stopped; Cuadras was on the run, power depleting, getting increasingly hit on the backfoot. Rungvisai gets better under adversity, shows up to fight EVERY time, trains like a beast, has an iron chin and power in both hands. I'm not 100% sure Estrada beats him. People are still sleeping on this guy. I've been saying it for months. If the first fight was a robbery or a fluke, explain why nobody was convinced Choco would win the rematch wide or by KO. It's because people are lying to themselves. Go back and watch his fights. He's better than he's being given credit for. Choco was a good fighter who got beat twice by a superior fighter. That's all there it is to it. Unless your name is Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward, it happens. There's a lot I could pick apart here- and even one or two things I could agree with. But, if you think Wlad was a shell of himself against AJ or that Horn actually won his fight with Pac, we see things so differently that argument is surely not worth the effort.

no self respecting person with healthy self esteem has or ever had golovkin p4p 1 anyway

If strength of resume is the highest weighing factor, it would be difficult not to put Canelo at the top. However, he had controversial decisions in all of his elite level fights so it leaves some doubt and the same goes for GGG. Crawford's resume is on par with GGG's and only GGG's last 2 fights may have given him a slight edge there. The thing with Crawford is that people seem to think he is going to get better and he unified all the belts at 140, regardless of the opposition in the division and on top of that, he's about to move up to the most competitive division in boxing. For that, i'll give Crawford the #1 spot for the time being.

So what you're saying is, the only eligible candidates would essentially be Jeff "The Hornet" Horn (beat Manny) Srisaket Sor Rungvisai aka Minny Pacquiao (beat Chocolatito) Anthony Joshua (beat Grabomir) Because nobody else has beat a fighter that should be considered anywhere near "elite" doe. Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly okay calling The Hornet #1 P4P. He's already the #1 Welterweight in the World. I'd also be okay with Rungvisai since he's the #1 Super Flyweight in the World. If we'd seen the best Manny and Horn had dominated, the answer would be yes. Instead, we saw an aged Manny still beat Horn from pillar to post and get robbed by judges. So no, Horn doesn't get on the p4p list and the first time he fights any of the young welters out there he is toast. Rungvisai would definitely be on my list but I want to see him do it against another top guy. I thought Chocolatito won the first fight and I have no idea if Srisaket is THAT GOOD or Roman just aged that fast which happens at the lower weights more dramatically. AJ IS on my list and top 5 to boot. The Wlad he beat was as good a version as we've seen the last 5 or 6 years. And that Wlad was definitely a top 10 p4p guy, although I would have him ranked towards the bottom of the 10 even at his peak.

I think Bud is suffering a little bit now from what Mayweather suffered his whole career. He fights an opponent who is supposed to be the one to beat him or at least give him a hard time. Then, after he totally dominates, that boogeyman turns into a bum. And yes, Gamboa was elite (and undefeated) when Bud fought him. Then you have wins over guys like Beltran who gives EVERYONE a hard time...except Terrance. Lastly, say what you want about Indongo not being elite. But NO ONE in the top 10 P4P has a dominant victory over a guy that did anything close to what Indongo had done prior to meeting Bud. Dude globetrotted his way to two major belts back to back and Crawford made him look like a club fighter. No, Terrence is P4P #1 and it isn't even close. As to why I have Spence and Mikey rated over Loma and Rigo, the same reasoning applies. Don't get me wrong. When it comes to the eye test, Rigo and Loma are two of the most skilled there are, maybe ever. But for me, P4P is more than an eye test. The term was invented not because Sugar Ray Robinson "looked" like the most skilled guy going. He proved it against other skilled guys. Over and Over again. The skilled guys that Spence and Mikey dominated are better fighters than the skilled guys Loma and Rigo have beat. That's why they are higher. One of them- Loma or Rigo- will be place very highly after the fight in December. With a close fight, perhaps both. But for now? Yeah, Spence and Mikey and Thurman and even AJ are higher- they beat better men.

Based on this criteria Errol Spence is #1 P4P. He has the most elite win in boxing, KO over the champ Brook in his hometown. Brook KO > Russell Jr, inactive Walters, old small Rigo Wow just when you've thought you've read everything, this fking stupidity just slaps you right in your face

Its not like Crawford has faced any elite guys yet lol

Based on this criteria Errol Spence is #1 P4P. He has the most elite win in boxing, KO over the champ Brook in his hometown. Brook KO > Russell Jr, inactive Walters, old small Rigo

Hilarious he says GGG can't have it but Crawford can? I love Crawford but he ain't beat no elite guys.

...which is why Golovkin will have to wait til May for a crack at it. At least Loma is fighting Rigo in December, so a W there makes him legit. Right now, Bud is top dawg. Mikey, Errol, Thurman, and AJ round out my top 5. P4P lists sucks especially yours. What makes Errol better P4P than Loma or Rigo? (Since you don't have them in your top 5) How the hell is this camel faced southpaw better than those two amateur legends. Who did Errol Spence beat except the remaining pieces of Kell Brook who was coming from a TKO loss followed by a long lay off recovering from a bad injury.

Your wasting your time. When it comes to Redd and Ward it's like internet love affair. But he's a good poster most other times yet still he's a hardcore Ward fanboy. I see that now, can't trust them fanboys to keep it 100. It's not like Ward was never #1 but he wants to shift the timeframe from April to November. SAD.

...which is why Golovkin will have to wait til May for a crack at it. At least Loma is fighting Rigo in December, so a W there makes him legit. Right now, Bud is top dawg. Mikey, Errol, Thurman, and AJ round out my top 5. What elite win has Bud done? FYI this is coming from someone that likes him but not blind.

But your post was the exact opposite of an honesty friend. Why you gotta make stuff up instead of just sticking to the facts? Your wasting your time. When it comes to Redd and Ward it's like internet love affair. But he's a good poster most other times yet still he's a hardcore Ward fanboy.

You can beat atg fighters who are in prime yet still not be no1 though. PAC beat Barrera but Floyd was ranked no1 PFP I believe without haven beaten anyone

You're apparently the type of guy I was referring to. It's ok, you can't can spin it however you like to make yourselves feel better. I'm ok putting GG as #1 and don't need to snub him. Not afraid of being honest. But your post was the exact opposite of an honesty friend. Why you gotta make stuff up instead of just sticking to the facts?

Hold on there machacho let's keep our fanboy bias at home, Ward was P4P #1 since April when Gonzalez lost not November. I swear you fanboys can't just keep it 100. Always gotta sneak in some BS. You're apparently the type of guy I was referring to. It's ok, you can't can spin it however you like to make yourselves feel better. I'm ok putting GG as #1 and don't need to snub him. Not afraid of being honest.

I don't understand the people that are claiming that it'a hard pick between Crawford and GGG. To me it's clearly Terence Crawford right now, beat undefeated champions in their prime across 2 weight classes and looked much more complete than GGG, whose weaknesses against other top fighters were out there for the world to see, Crawford fought all the top guys in all the divisions he fought at and won easily, no controversial decisions, nobody won more than 3 rounds against him, and like I said he fought undefeated prime champions to become the UNDISPUTED 140 lbs champion, GGG already lost to Jacobs and barely beat a light middleweight in Canelo who imo lost his 2 biggest fights against Mayweather and Lara.