So much of McTapout and bashing MMA but...

Soooo um are we gonna avoid Ray Mercer 50 and destroying the mma heavyweight champ on like 6 days notice in mma?....yes? ok carry on

So many MMA f ags have infected the forum f uck of back to f uckoffsville ****os

What relevance does that have to my point? Which was that his thread has holes in it and he's trying to fill them in with anything he can. Many of those things are weak and do not patch the faulty argument. I get his sentiment, which is to respect the sport. I absolutely agree with that and probably feel even stronger about it than he does. But, he created a weak argument by which to get the point across. I was responding to your post...not the op or his argument. You brought up the fact toney was old and shot...I'm just saying it wouldn't have mattered imo.

...what about James "Tapsout" Toney lol James Toney, who never got stopped in boxing tapped out in MMA. Just showing how MMA can be tough. He only did it for the payday, he didn't want to do MMA. If you were around at that time, he couldn't get boxing matches anymore cuz he couldn't stand up on his own two feet without falling down from moving around. Toney scammed UFC and they fell for his sh1t talking.

Let's not act like it would have made a difference if toney was in his prime. Randy knew what he was doing...as a greco roman wrestler he probably never shot that low in his life. What relevance does that have to my point? Which was that his thread has holes in it and he's trying to fill them in with anything he can. Many of those things are weak and do not patch the faulty argument. I get his sentiment, which is to respect the sport. I absolutely agree with that and probably feel even stronger about it than he does. But, he created a weak argument by which to get the point across.

Lol, how old was toney? 100? McConnor was in his prime, and ann wolfe would have beaten the hell out of him and stopped him too. You dont need an old floyd to beat the **** out of that ***** with no power at all, he wouldnt succeed even in women's boxing, dude.

All boxing fans know how Toney embarrassed boxing. How could we forget. At the time Toney lost to the UFC fighter he was a washed up boxer fighting about 50 pounds over his proper fighting weight. He really knew nothing about cage fighting and was easily defeated in the blink of an eye. Let's say a prime 160 pound Toney had seriously prepared to fight a 160 pound good UFC fighter under UFC rules. He still would probably have lost but he would have given the UFC guy a better fight and lasted more than 60 seconds.

The issue is that MMA is not well-developed yet. You'd be very hard pushed to call it art... whereas boxing transcends brutality and has a rich heritage. Watching a good boxer is elegance epitomised - that's not an accident, that's come about through honing. Maybe one day MMA will reach the level of boxing, after several millenia of development, say, but as it is right now, MMA is barbaric, unskilled, and not pretty to watch. Boxing, on the other hand, is an ancient and beautiful form of fighting. The respect we have for boxers is at least partly a function of historical love for the game, but it's also a testimony to the honour-systems at play. Right now, MMA is a mess to watch and the inherent values carried within the "discipline"--a real stretch of the word--of MMA are unsophisticated... to jump on a man when he's down and then to rear-choke him into unconsciousness... that might be your bag, but I just find it distasteful. Similarly, I see nothing graceful about lumbering into another man's knees in order to tackle them to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I like to watch UFC sometimes but I have to be in a nihilistic, bloodthirsty sort of mood. There doesn't seem to be much honour in MMA: one slip and your opponent is apparently obliged to jump in with elbows. That's not sport. That's sacrificial. TL;DR - MMA is a young sport, and not really even a sport See thats what messes with me mentally. You literally have a bunch of people who see nothing wrong with that. I have an issue with it on multiple levels To me? Its just too crass and lacking of legitimate art. I often times compare operating in the clinch in boxing and smothering fighters by tackling them and laying on top of them to be similar in tactic but ultimately, to lay on someone just to beat them and then to do ground and pound is the epitome of barbaric. Especially to have a league called the Ultimate Fighting Champion, what skill do you have to have to operate in the clinch in boxing? You have to be measurably skilled to do so. It takes years of positioning and dominance to do it. Ground & Pound is just a cheap way of winning and it doesn't prove who was better.

Couture was older by 5 years as I said and had been stopped in fights (unlike Toney). And it's not about losing, it's about QUITTING. Toney was a proud man and still had his pride, never stopped in boxing. MMA chokes are so rough that he did quit, that's all I mean. So much about calling MMA fighters quitters and tappers when in reality most boxers would do the same in those situations. Different sports, different rules. Either practitioner would be out of their element. And that is why I was one of many vocal critics who was against Mayweather boxing a rookie.

That's a very narrow minded comment and just guarantee why your a red k poster lol It doesn't work this way outside of the USA. Judo and Wrestling are more practiced sports than boxing or baseball in the wolrd. Wrestling and Judo are very competitive sports wolrldwide. if they are bums, then I'm waiting for Gaybron or an NFL idiot to enter the octagon and whip those bums. Lol, can you imagine what a specimen like Lebron would do if he was groomed from day one as a MMA fighter? Don't be ridiculous. Top level athletes play top level sports. Second best find for second tier sports they can dominate. Plain and simple.

Don't make a stupid thread and then try to pretend that others are missing the point. I'm a long-time MMA fan and have trained more in mixed martial arts and jiu jitsu than boxing. Few here have more respect for the sport than me. But, that doesn't change the fact that your thread is terrible. Coture was far, far more fit and relevant than Toney at the time. Coture had just beaten Vera, and a couple years before, was winning and defending the HW championship. It's a terrible comparison, just let it go. Let's not act like it would have made a difference if toney was in his prime. Randy knew what he was doing...as a greco roman wrestler he probably never shot that low in his life.

You're the one actually missing the point. It's not about Toney being competitive himself in the octagon, it was not a fair fight since it was a MMA fight and Toney never was an MMA fighter. Couture was old himself, it's about Couture and the MMA rules bringing the quit out of Toney. Don't make a stupid thread and then try to pretend that others are missing the point. I'm a long-time MMA fan and have trained more in mixed martial arts and jiu jitsu than boxing. Few here have more respect for the sport than me. But, that doesn't change the fact that your thread is terrible. Coture was far, far more fit and relevant than Toney at the time. Coture had just beaten Vera, and a couple years before, was winning and defending the HW championship. It's a terrible comparison, just let it go.

MMA is bull**** buddy it's a joke it's for rednecks and hillbillies and cowards. If you care so much f uck off to sherdog I can talk about MMA and boxing in this forum if I want. I don't have to chose btw Sherdogs or NSB or whatever. I can see that the opposition btw MMA and boxing is more political stuff in the USA (rednecks). I'm from Europe and MMA is not for rednecks here but more for kids from the ghetto. The world is not USA. You call them cowards but probably would not step in there.

...what about James "Tapsout" Toney lol Seriously, I'm a fan of boxing first but respects a lot MMA fighters. We should respect every fighter from boxing OR MMA. Guys acting on this forum like boxing defenders when they are nothing to the sport but groupies. Those boxing snobs are the worst fans. MMA fighters are actually tapping out because the ref or the corner won't stop the fight unless the guy is unconscious. James Toney, who never got stopped in boxing tapped out in MMA. Just showing how MMA can be tough. Thank you for reading :boxing: Totally agree, both sports are tough.

That's a very narrow minded comment and just guarantee why your a red k poster lol It doesn't work this way outside of the USA. Judo and Wrestling are more practiced sports than boxing or baseball in the wolrd. Wrestling and Judo are very competitive sports wolrldwide. if they are bums, then I'm waiting for Gaybron or an NFL idiot to enter the octagon and whip those bums. No they aren't thats bull****.

If any of these people were top level athletes, I guarantee you they would've pursued sports that are more lucrative than wrestling or judo. That's a very narrow minded comment and just guarantee why your a red k poster lol It doesn't work this way outside of the USA. Judo and Wrestling are more practiced sports than boxing or baseball in the wolrd. Wrestling and Judo are very competitive sports wolrldwide. if they are bums, then I'm waiting for Gaybron or an NFL idiot to enter the octagon and whip those bums.

The main basis is wrestling/and or grappling so who cares if the man can or can't box. Obviously MMA fighters can't play basketball too. MMA is for the best competitors in combat sports, they all come from judo, wrestling of kick boxing. MMA is not a sport as you said but rules where all fighting styles can match up. MMA is bull**** buddy it's a joke it's for rednecks and hillbillies and cowards. If you care so much f uck off to sherdog

MMA is **** and for bum fighters who can't box it's not even a sport that's why all these ****s always say 'in a street fight' it's just a tough man competition The main basis is wrestling/and or grappling so who cares if the man can or can't box. Obviously MMA fighters can't play basketball too. MMA is for the best competitors in combat sports, they all come from judo, wrestling of kick boxing. MMA is not a sport as you said but rules where all fighting styles can match up.

That's actually untrue and I hope you realize you talk about things you don't know, I just found for you a list of olympians (judo and wrestling) who competed in MMA: Ben Askren, wrestling, 2008, 7th, Bellator, 14-0-0 Bartłomiej Bartnicki, wrestling, 2004/2008, 11th/12th, 2 small promotions, 2-0-0 Nestoras Batzelas, wrestling, 2004, 13th, small promotions mainly in Greece, 1-2-0 Eddy Bengtsson, wrestling, 2000/2004, 10th/12th, several small promotions, 6-4-0 Arjan Bhullar, wrestling, 2012, 13th, BFL, 1-0-0 Henry Cejudo, wrestling, 2008, gold, UFC, 7-0-0 Mark Coleman, wrestling, 1992, 7th, UFC/PRIDE, 16-10-0 Daniel Cormier, wrestling, 2004, 4th place, UFC, 15-1-0 Rhadi Ferguson, judo, 2004, ?, Strikeforce Challengers, 3-0-0 Karam Ibrahim Gaber, wrestling, 2004/2012, gold/silver, K-1, 0-1-0 Rulon Gardner, wrestling, 2000/2004, gold/bronze, PRIDE, 1-0-0 Matt Ghaffari, wrestling, 1996, silver, UFO. 0-1-0 Svetlana Goundarenko, judo, 1992/1996, 7th/5th, small promotions in Japan, 6-2-0 Rick Hawn, judo, 2004, 9th, Bellator, 19-4-0 Todd Hays, 2-men & 4-men bobsleigh, 2002/2006, 4th&silver/7th&7th, VTJ, 1-0-0 Dan Henderson, wrestling, 1992/1996, 10th/12th, UFC/PRIDE, 30-12-0 Satoshi Ishii, judo, 2008, gold, IGF, 12-4-1 Hiroshi Izumi, judo, 2004, silver, World Victory Road/Dream/Dynamite!!, 4-2-0 Kevin Jackson, wrestling, 1992, gold, UFC, 4-2-0 Antoine Jaoude, wrestling, 2004, 20th, IFL, 8-3-0 Bu-Kyung Jung, judo, 2000, silver, Dream, 0-4-0 Aleksandr Karelin, wrestling, 1988/1992/1996/2000, gold/gold/gold/silver, RINGS*, 1-0-0 Dan Kelly, judo, 2000/2004/2008/2012, 9th/7th/20th/17th, UFC, 8-0-0 Min-soo Kim, judo, 1996, silver, K-1/HERO'S, 3-7-0 Cary Kolat, wrestling, 2000, 9th, SportFight, 0-1-0 Alexey Krupnyakov, wrestling, 2004/2008, 15th/16th, ProFC, 5-0-0 Eldar Kurtanidze, wrestling, 1996/2000, bronze/bronze, PRIDE, 0-1-0 Matt Lindland, wrestling, 2000, silver, UFC, 22-9-0 Hector Lombard, judo, 2000, ?, PRIDE/Bellator/UFC, 34-4-1 (1) Mark Overgaard Madsen, wrestling, 2008/2012, 19th/5th, EMMA, 2-0-0 Istvan Majoros, wrestling, 2004, gold, K-1, 0-1-0 Sara McMann, wrestling, 2004, silver, UFC, 8-1-0 Ray Mercer, boxing, 1988, gold, Adrenaline MMA, 1-0-0 Randi Miller, wrestling, 2008, bronze, Invicta, 1-0-0 Kazuyuki Miyata, wrestling, 2000, 13th, K-1, 14-9-0 Steve Mocco, wrestling, 2008, 7th, WSOF, 4-1-0 Kenny Monday, wrestling, 1988/1992/1996, gold/silver/6th, Extreme Fighting, 1-0-0 Katsuhiko Nagata, wrestling, 2000, silver, K-1 Hero's/Dream, 6-7-3 Pawel Nastula, judo, 1996, gold, PRIDE, 5-6-0 Naoya Ogawa, judo, 1992, silver, PRIDE, 7-2-0 Yoel Romero, wrestling, 2000/2004, silver/4th, UFC, 9-1-0 Ronda Rousey, judo, 2008, bronze, UFC, 10-0-0 Townsend Saunders, wrestling, 1992.1996 7th/silver, UFC, 2-0-0 Mark Schultz, wrestling, 1984, gold, UFC, 1-1-0 Kurt Angle, wrestling, 1996, gold

That's actually untrue and I hope you realize you talk about things you don't know, I just found for you a list of olympians (judo and wrestling) who competed in MMA: Ben Askren, wrestling, 2008, 7th, Bellator, 14-0-0 Bartłomiej Bartnicki, wrestling, 2004/2008, 11th/12th, 2 small promotions, 2-0-0 Nestoras Batzelas, wrestling, 2004, 13th, small promotions mainly in Greece, 1-2-0 Eddy Bengtsson, wrestling, 2000/2004, 10th/12th, several small promotions, 6-4-0 Arjan Bhullar, wrestling, 2012, 13th, BFL, 1-0-0 Henry Cejudo, wrestling, 2008, gold, UFC, 7-0-0 Mark Coleman, wrestling, 1992, 7th, UFC/PRIDE, 16-10-0 Daniel Cormier, wrestling, 2004, 4th place, UFC, 15-1-0 Rhadi Ferguson, judo, 2004, ?, Strikeforce Challengers, 3-0-0 Karam Ibrahim Gaber, wrestling, 2004/2012, gold/silver, K-1, 0-1-0 Rulon Gardner, wrestling, 2000/2004, gold/bronze, PRIDE, 1-0-0 Matt Ghaffari, wrestling, 1996, silver, UFO. 0-1-0 Svetlana Goundarenko, judo, 1992/1996, 7th/5th, small promotions in Japan, 6-2-0 Rick Hawn, judo, 2004, 9th, Bellator, 19-4-0 Todd Hays, 2-men & 4-men bobsleigh, 2002/2006, 4th&silver/7th&7th, VTJ, 1-0-0 Dan Henderson, wrestling, 1992/1996, 10th/12th, UFC/PRIDE, 30-12-0 Satoshi Ishii, judo, 2008, gold, IGF, 12-4-1 Hiroshi Izumi, judo, 2004, silver, World Victory Road/Dream/Dynamite!!, 4-2-0 Kevin Jackson, wrestling, 1992, gold, UFC, 4-2-0 Antoine Jaoude, wrestling, 2004, 20th, IFL, 8-3-0 Bu-Kyung Jung, judo, 2000, silver, Dream, 0-4-0 Aleksandr Karelin, wrestling, 1988/1992/1996/2000, gold/gold/gold/silver, RINGS*, 1-0-0 Dan Kelly, judo, 2000/2004/2008/2012, 9th/7th/20th/17th, UFC, 8-0-0 Min-soo Kim, judo, 1996, silver, K-1/HERO'S, 3-7-0 Cary Kolat, wrestling, 2000, 9th, SportFight, 0-1-0 Alexey Krupnyakov, wrestling, 2004/2008, 15th/16th, ProFC, 5-0-0 Eldar Kurtanidze, wrestling, 1996/2000, bronze/bronze, PRIDE, 0-1-0 Matt Lindland, wrestling, 2000, silver, UFC, 22-9-0 Hector Lombard, judo, 2000, ?, PRIDE/Bellator/UFC, 34-4-1 (1) Mark Overgaard Madsen, wrestling, 2008/2012, 19th/5th, EMMA, 2-0-0 Istvan Majoros, wrestling, 2004, gold, K-1, 0-1-0 Sara McMann, wrestling, 2004, silver, UFC, 8-1-0 Ray Mercer, boxing, 1988, gold, Adrenaline MMA, 1-0-0 Randi Miller, wrestling, 2008, bronze, Invicta, 1-0-0 Kazuyuki Miyata, wrestling, 2000, 13th, K-1, 14-9-0 Steve Mocco, wrestling, 2008, 7th, WSOF, 4-1-0 Kenny Monday, wrestling, 1988/1992/1996, gold/silver/6th, Extreme Fighting, 1-0-0 Katsuhiko Nagata, wrestling, 2000, silver, K-1 Hero's/Dream, 6-7-3 Pawel Nastula, judo, 1996, gold, PRIDE, 5-6-0 Naoya Ogawa, judo, 1992, silver, PRIDE, 7-2-0 Yoel Romero, wrestling, 2000/2004, silver/4th, UFC, 9-1-0 Ronda Rousey, judo, 2008, bronze, UFC, 10-0-0 Townsend Saunders, wrestling, 1992.1996 7th/silver, UFC, 2-0-0 Mark Schultz, wrestling, 1984, gold, UFC, 1-1-0 If any of these people were top level athletes, I guarantee you they would've pursued sports that are more lucrative than wrestling or judo.