LET'S SCORE: Paul "The Punisher" Williams vs. Erislandy "The American Dream" Lara

you have a similar card to 3 judges who were suspended for beign terrible judges. congrats? Can i see your scorecard? i actually rewatched the fight and scored round by round in a thread asking posters to do as such..and you as usual just come in, not participate and try to criticize those who do

I thought lara won...pwill really couldn't avoid that left hand.

Idk, the only way I can see a Williams scorecard is if you gave him 2-6, 10, and 12. But then you're giving Williams the edge in literally every round he was competitive in whatsoever. That any real judge forked over rounds 8 and 11 to Williams is crazy. Yea i gave 8 and 11 to Lara..but there were some real close rounds..Williams was doing good body work and working with his free hand in clinches

Exactly..looking at my scorecards and the judges i cant scream robbery as there were a lot of close swing rounds.. you have a similar card to 3 judges who were suspended for beign terrible judges. congrats?

Exactly..looking at my scorecards and the judges i cant scream robbery as there were a lot of close swing rounds.. Idk, the only way I can see a Williams scorecard is if you gave him 2-6, 10, and 12. But then you're giving Williams the edge in literally every round he was competitive in whatsoever. That any real judge forked over rounds 8 and 11 to Williams is crazy.

So if I'm really trying to get the most out of this.. should compare the scorecards with my own scores http://static.boxrec.com/d/d3/Williamslarascorecard.jpg So the consensus rounds are: Lara - 1, 7, 9 Williams - 3, 5, 6, 10 Seems a little generous but not outrageous for Rd 3 to be a consensus Williams round. EDIT: BM donobagaV made me realize that one judge actually scored rd 3 even. The remaining: Round 4 - Two for Williams, which I thought was a clean Williams round Round 8 - Two for Williams, seems off to me Round 11 - Two for Williams, seems off to me Round 12 - One for Lara & two even, can't complain too much about that. So my real pain points with the judges are with rounds 8 and 11. And after rewatching those rounds another time I haven't changed my mind about them. Especially 11 which was a super clean Lara round. Exactly..looking at my scorecards and the judges i cant scream robbery as there were a lot of close swing rounds..

No need lol, am not watching that atrocious decision in modern day boxing history. If I have to nominate a fight which boxing can over turn it's decision over the last 25 years then this fight would be on to of my list.

And what's worse is I had money on Lara :lol1: There's absolutely no question who won. That's one of the biggest robberies in recent times Haha I feel your pain. I had money on Abril over Rios (another of the biggest robberies). :lol1: In my opinion, no one with a rudimentary understanding of how fights are scored could've favored P Will over Lara. Hence the suspensions.

Interesting to see how some members scored the fight. From my point of view, there was never any doubt as to who won, no conceivable debate. Some fights are difficult to score, and we can argue till the cows come home over them. Close rounds are especially prone to subjectivity, so a close fight can be scored lop-sided, depending on one's prejudices. Lara-Williams isn't even close to being one of them, IMO. The commissioner of the NJSAC obviously agreed, to the point of calling the judges into his office and having them explain themselves...then subsequently suspending them. The CJ Ross card in that fight is another good example of horrendous scoring in the face of an obvious decision. I'm glad that in recent times some boxing judges have been called on the carpet for incompetent or corrupt decisions. Their ineptitude is all kinds of bad for the sport, its athletes and fans. Nothing worse in competition than nebulous scoring. What's the point of watching two combatants spill their guts if the end result is essentially decided by a coin flip? Amongst other things, it cheapens the decisions that came before. And what's worse is I had money on Lara :lol1: There's absolutely no question who won. That's one of the biggest robberies in recent times

I can't think of any off the top of my head. CJ Ross got practically fired for scoring Mayweather Canelo a draw but that was after that fight of course. Interesting to see how some members scored the fight. From my point of view, there was never any doubt as to who won, no conceivable debate. Some fights are difficult to score, and we can argue till the cows come home over them. Close rounds are especially prone to subjectivity, so a close fight can be scored lop-sided, depending on one's prejudices. Lara-Williams isn't even close to being one of them, IMO. The commissioner of the NJSAC obviously agreed, to the point of calling the judges into his office and having them explain themselves...then subsequently suspending them. The CJ Ross card in that fight is another good example of horrendous scoring in the face of an obvious decision. I'm glad that in recent times some boxing judges have been called on the carpet for incompetent or corrupt decisions. Their ineptitude is all kinds of bad for the sport, its athletes and fans. Nothing worse in competition than nebulous scoring. What's the point of watching two combatants spill their guts if the end result is essentially decided by a coin flip? Amongst other things, it cheapens the decisions that came before.

3 rounds were 10-10? I mean, interesting, but I subscribe to the 10-9 as the gold standard.

So if I'm really trying to get the most out of this.. should compare the scorecards with my own scores http://static.boxrec.com/d/d3/Williamslarascorecard.jpg So the consensus rounds are: Lara - 1, 7, 9 Williams - 3, 5, 6, 10 Seems a little generous but not outrageous for Rd 3 to be a consensus Williams round. EDIT: BM donobagaV made me realize that one judge actually scored rd 3 even. The remaining: Round 4 - Two for Williams, which I thought was a clean Williams round Round 8 - Two for Williams, seems off to me Round 11 - Two for Williams, seems off to me Round 12 - One for Lara & two even, can't complain too much about that. So my real pain points with the judges are with rounds 8 and 11. And after rewatching those rounds another time I haven't changed my mind about them. Especially 11 which was a super clean Lara round.

This is a good example of a robbery. The range of plausible scorecards in my opinion are anywhere from close win for Lara to wide win for Lara. But it's always good to try to keep yourself in check by questioning your beliefs and keeping your mind open, so I think it'll be a good exercise for me to re-watch the fight. 1- Lara clearly 2- Lara lost the first minute or so but hurt Williams in the middle of the round. Closer round. 3- Lara landed the more effective punches, but I thought Williams may have landed more punches total. Hardest round to call so far. 4- Williams clearly. Lara didn't do anything for most of it. Beautiful shot at the end by Lara though. 5- Williams outworked Lara in this round. Not enough answers from Lara to give him the round. 6- Williams close. Williams landing a lot of little punches to Lara's few but clean, thudding blows which in a way is the story of the fight. 7- Lara clearly 8- Lara 9- Lara 10- Williams close 11- Lara 12- Lara close 116-112 Lara. I just have such a hard time imagining Williams getting 7+ of these rounds. Seems exceedingly generous to give Williams all of 2-6+10+12 or something like that. I wonder what rounds the judges gave to Williams...

Round one: Williams Round two: Williams Round three: Lara Round four: Williams Round five: Lara Round six: Lara Round seven: Lara Round eight: Williams Round nine: Williams Round ten: Lara Round eleven: Lara Round twelve: Williams Could have gone either way!!!!!!

In the history of boxing, with all the robberies and all the bad decisions, I don't think I've ever heard of that happening before. Have you? I can't think of any off the top of my head. CJ Ross got practically fired for scoring Mayweather Canelo a draw but that was after that fight of course.

When judges get suspended you know the fight was a robbery. In the history of boxing, with all the robberies and all the bad decisions, I don't think I've ever heard of that happening before. Have you?

When judges get suspended you know the fight was a robbery.

williams schooled him, body work, etc...

115-113 Lara....

My final card 1-Lara 2-Lara 3-williams 4-williams 5-williams 6-williams 7-Lara 8-Lara 9-Lara 10-Williams 11-Lara 12-Lara 7-5 Lara very close fight lots of swing rounds