Super Middleweights better than Joe Calzaghe?

Ward dominated Kessler, Kessler was getting roughed up in the clinches because he couldn't fight out of them which he could've. He lost the battle of the jabs immediately, he couldn't cut off the ring, he couldn't avoid Ward's power punches either. He made Kessler look amateurish, Ward beats him 10/10. Bika-Ward was not that close especially after Ward adjusted, I watched the fight, Ward got nailed with a hard left in round 3 or so, after that he shut off Bika's head attack completely. All Bika could do was land occasional body shots in exchange for head shots, whereas Calzaghe was eating head shots all night. Joe got dropped by Hopkins AND RJJ. The timing was right? As if other boxers are unable to time a punch, I'd pick Ward to drop him at least once. Joe struggled with Reid, he struggled with Byron Mitchell too. Again, Reid, Mitchell, Bika, all are able to go toe to toe with Calzaghe and push him, but you want to crown this guy king? Can you imagine the shyt Ward would get struggling with Byron Mitchel or Reid? Ward should have been DQ'd. His performance was a disgrace against Kessler. I don't want to hear coulda woulda. The fact is he didn't in a clean manner. Ward didn't adjust against Bika. Bika ran out of steam from being rusty after being out for 18 months. You really should watch that fight again. It was close for all 12 rounds. Unlike the Calzaghe fight where he dominated from start to finish. Ward couldn't drop a shot to pieces Miranda who had a glass chin. In fact he doesn't drop hardly anyone. So he isn't dropping someone with a great chin. That's delusional. Calzaghe didn't struggle with Reid either. At no point was he looking like he was going to lose. It was a clear win. And against Byron the only success he had was dropping Joe. That was it. And all this crap coming from the idiot who claims that Joe is overrated BECAUSE he was dropped by Jones and Hopkins, whilst defending Ward and claiming he'd beat Joe even though Ward was dropped by Boone and badly wobbled by a complete nobody. That's your typical American logic right there. Retarded. Congratulations on that spaz becoming your president as well. You clearly deserve him.

You don't know shit, log out and don't come back. Explain then lol

Joe toyed with a near prime RJJ and put to bed the myth of who is better. If Joe wasn't old and his reflexes shot he would've bodybagged Roy that night. easy there tiger....:trink26:

Ward Hopkins Toney Darrell (both) Bayou jack Holy **** you are dumb as a f***k

Prime Jones, Ward, Froch I think Jones beats him, but he beats Ward and Froch in competitive fights.

Ward didn't stop Kessler. It went to the cards because of the repeated illegal headbutts from Ward. Throw in the fact that he illegally clinched all night which should have resulted in Ward being DQ'd. Ward/Bika was a close fight that I had 115/113 for Ward. Those corrupt score cards they came back with in having Ward taking every round were disgusting. Whereas Calzaghe won 11 out of 12 in his fight with Bika. Not forgetting that Bika had been out of the ring for 18 months and was rusty. The timing of the shot against Hopkins was what done it, not power. So how does that make Joe overrated?? That doesn't even make any sense. Joe didn't lose to Reid so stop playing games. 116/112 I had it. It was a clear win. Ward dominated Kessler, Kessler was getting roughed up in the clinches because he couldn't fight out of them which he could've. He lost the battle of the jabs immediately, he couldn't cut off the ring, he couldn't avoid Ward's power punches either. He made Kessler look amateurish, Ward beats him 10/10. Bika-Ward was not that close especially after Ward adjusted, I watched the fight, Ward got nailed with a hard left in round 3 or so, after that he shut off Bika's head attack completely. All Bika could do was land occasional body shots in exchange for head shots, whereas Calzaghe was eating head shots all night. Joe got dropped by Hopkins AND RJJ. The timing was right? As if other boxers are unable to time a punch, I'd pick Ward to drop him at least once. Joe struggled with Reid, he struggled with Byron Mitchell too. Again, Reid, Mitchell, Bika, all are able to go toe to toe with Calzaghe and push him, but you want to crown this guy king? Can you imagine the shyt Ward would get struggling with Byron Mitchel or Reid?

Kess got stopped against Ward, that's why, it was complete domination by a green 25 year old, Ward. Kess stole at least 3rds from Calzaghe and fought with an injured hand. Ward and Joe also have another opponent in common, Bika. Ward shut off Bika's head attack while Joe struggled and got tagged repeatedly with clean blows to the head. Joe is massively overrated, he got dropped by old man Hopkins and RJJ, he's arguably lost to Robin Reid. We saw what Kovalev and Ward did to his 2 career defining wins as well, Hopkins and Kess. Fighters like Bika and Reid are pushing this guy, RJJ and Hopkins are dropping him, I'd say guys like Ramirez, Degale, Jack more than have a chance. Ward didn't stop Kessler. It went to the cards because of the repeated illegal headbutts from Ward. Throw in the fact that he illegally clinched all night which should have resulted in Ward being DQ'd. Ward/Bika was a close fight that I had 115/113 for Ward. Those corrupt score cards they came back with in having Ward taking every round were disgusting. Whereas Calzaghe won 11 out of 12 in his fight with Bika. Not forgetting that Bika had been out of the ring for 18 months and was rusty. The timing of the shot against Hopkins was what done it, not power. So how does that make Joe overrated?? That doesn't even make any sense. Joe didn't lose to Reid so stop playing games. 116/112 I had it. It was a clear win.

None, it's a weird division. If ward beats kov that will be at 175 soooooo--I would NOT say Calzaghe is better than Ward. KESSLER SAID CALZHAGE WAS THE TOUGHER FIGHT. Said that Ward juts headbutted which made the fight hard.........that's the best evidence we have guys Kess got stopped against Ward, that's why, it was complete domination by a green 25 year old, Ward. Kess stole at least 3rds from Calzaghe and fought with an injured hand. Ward and Joe also have another opponent in common, Bika. Ward shut off Bika's head attack while Joe struggled and got tagged repeatedly with clean blows to the head. Joe is massively overrated, he got dropped by old man Hopkins and RJJ, he's arguably lost to Robin Reid. We saw what Kovalev and Ward did to his 2 career defining wins as well, Hopkins and Kess. Fighters like Bika and Reid are pushing this guy, RJJ and Hopkins are dropping him, I'd say guys like Ramirez, Degale, Jack more than have a chance.

None, it's a weird division. If ward beats kov that will be at 175 soooooo--I would NOT say Calzaghe is better than Ward. KESSLER SAID CALZHAGE WAS THE TOUGHER FIGHT. Said that Ward juts headbutted which made the fight hard.........that's the best evidence we have guys

Prime Roy Jones Jr? Andre Ward? How does Froch fare against him? Golovkin if he moved up? Anyone else? I think Joe is an ATG, he never ducked anybody but arguably the division was weak when he dominated it. Thoughts? What are you asking? Who was better at 168 or who could theoretically beat Calzaghe? Because Calzaghe is the best super middleweight of all time, when using the criteria normally used to rank guys all time. H2H, it's a tough one. I feel Calzaghe beats both Ward and Froch and I doubt there should be nay debate on there. A prime Eubank, Benn and Jones would be tough though.

Joe outworks Ward for controversial decision win Joe loses in competitive fight against james toney Joe outboxes Froch and GGG in tough decision wins Joe loses a one sided decision to roy Jones

jones ward and toney beat him. Im not very good with 90s and 80s fighters, there could be more. geriatric hopkins landed the harder, more accurate punches, he just got outworked by slaps. Calslappys best wins were over two 40 year olds.

Roy Jones in his prime was unequivocally the greater fighter, his career at 168 was short but he was definitely better. Ward is about even, given he took half his top level 168 career off. That's about it.

some great fighters on that list but i'd pick joe against them all. Put any style of fighter in front of him and joe would have worked them out after a few rounds, his boxing IQ was off the charts as someone mentioned he didn't work out robin reid at all. i also thought he lost that fight.......also gave the fight to hopkins (who was past his prime but still A threat never the less)

Lol @ the people who think Roy Jones was anywhere close to prime when he fought Joe. Roy was shot to **** for several years before he fought Joe.

Roy is the undisputed king... Calzaghe is probably #2 Followed closely by ward.. Honorable mentions to toney, froch n Kessler n Frankie liles The division literally has no history so it's a very short list

no fighter thats ever fought at 168 would beat joe, simple as that. Anyone who think roy jones beats him are deluded. People make out joe was 25 or something when he beat roy. No, they were both old and joe absolutely embarrassed him. A fight in their primes would be closer i think but not enough for roy to beat him. That is a bit much when you consider Benn, McClellan, Hearns, Leonard, Ward, Nunn, Collins, Toney, Jones and I'm sure several I missed all fought there. Also Joe and Roy were'nt even compareable at that stage. Roy had been to heavyweight and back down, taken two Ko losses and had'nt had a win worth mentioning in 5 years.

I thought Robin Reid beat him.

Roy Jones Jr. drops, busts up, and stops Calzaghe at 168. GGG probably gets the KO as well I think Joe UDs both Ward and Froch. Joe wasn't invincible, I would absolutely love to see all those fights, I don't rule him out of any of them, his head movement was phenomenal, his hand speed, I think he COULD win any of those fights theoretically.

Roy Jones Jr. drops, busts up, and stops Calzaghe at 168. GGG probably gets the KO as well I think Joe UDs both Ward and Froch.