Hagler vs James Toney MW WAR

Toney had a very could shoulder roll back at middle and when his chin did get tested, it passed. Hagler wasn't as good defensively and all throughout his career, struggled against guys with quick hands. Plus, if I'm not wrong, Hagler was 3 or so inches shorter than Toney too. Toney UD. Hagler is the greater fighter but h2h, Toney beats him. Hagler was an inch shorter than Toney but had a far longer reach. Being taller doesn't mean anything if your arms aren't longer than your opponents. Just makes you a bigger target.

It's could have been a war only if Marvin decided to start a war. Otherwise he just picks Toney apart from the outside with his jab and movement. Toney is to static to deal with Hagler.

Toney had a very could shoulder roll back at middle and when his chin did get tested, it passed. Hagler wasn't as good defensively and all throughout his career, struggled against guys with quick hands. Plus, if I'm not wrong, Hagler was 3 or so inches shorter than Toney too. Toney UD. Hagler is the greater fighter but h2h, Toney beats him.

Sure, but you compared Jirov to Lacy in how well Toney did against Jirov and Calzaghe did against Lacy. That's not fair, imo. Toney did the shoulder roll against Killers like Sam Peter. But yes, I get your point, Toney couldn't adjust. But Hagler Toney's style was one that wouldn't need adjusting against Hagler because Toney could actually fight in the pocket. Hagler would've been in his chest which plays perfectly with Toney's style. And I say this as someone that think that Hagler would win it, but it'd be close. I simply compared the fighters. I only compared the fights when questioned on it. Toney countered Peter but has zero wins over him. As for Hagler, he wouldn't need to be in his chest, he'd beat him easily at range. Even if he did get in his chest he'd beat him there aswell.

I'd have to disagree with Toney having a low IQ. Anyone that can do the shoulder roll and fire back with the right hand after perfectly rolling the shoulder takes a high IQ. You saw what happen when Broner and Berto tried the shoulder roll. I think Toney would be competitve with Hagler because of his ability to fight in the pocket. Toney could also crack and put you on your ass. Hagler was reckless at times, but obviously strong as hell. I give Hagler the edge, but it would've been very competitive. At best, Hagler wins a decision... Maybe 116-112 or 115-113, but no way does Toney get stopped. He would also have many moments against Hagler Being able to utilise a shoulder roll effectively doesn't necessarily mean you have high ring IQ. Broner had success with it PLENTY, at 130-140. Ian Napa used to sit in the pocket and perfectly time counters from the shoulder roll. Floyd Sr countered off the shoulder roll. George Benton practically invented the modern day shoulder roll. None of the above had great ring IQ. Toney had poor ring IQ because he has no ability to adjust, if a fights not going his way he simply keeps trying the same thing. When Reggie Johnson boxed his ears off, he just kept following him around the ring and loading up on a big punch, same thing he did with Nunn. When Montel Griffin jabbed him, he had no answer for it, he just let it land all night. Roy Jones embarrassed him in first gear, no had no answers for anything he just stood there all night getting battered from pillar to post. List goes on.

Also, Toney fought Jirov at Cruiser. I wouldn't even say Toney was at his best. He had already been in the game for 15 years and had 72 fights. Toney started his career at what, JMW or MW?? Fought and dropped and almost stopped Jirov at Cruiser. Sure, Calzaghe beat Lacy at 168, but Toney was already up 30 something pounds from the weight he started at when he fought Jirov. You can't really compare the two. That's like saying GGG struggled with Jean McCormick in a war so he couldn't have been better than Froch who clearly beat Bute Just a bad comparison. I never compared Toney-Jirov to Calzaghe-Lacy. I compared Jirov to Lacy.

HOW? Normally I'd let IronDan do this but we're talking Marvin Hagler here. How the hell does James Toney beat Marvin Hagler? What advantage does he have? He got a chin doe

Man that would have been an amazing fight

Toney isn't active enough to beat Hagler who would out work him... Neither guy is getting KO'd, so it would come down to activity... Hagler-Roy Jones is a closer fantasy match-up.

Imma have to roll with Hagler..Toney is to inconsistent for me

Toney beats Hagler and does so convincingly. Who did Toney beat convincingly to suggest he would do the same to Hagler? Toney doesn't have a single convincing win over a top tier fighter.

You're trolling now....lol I'm not. Their careers are similar. Extremely overhyped, knocked out a list of unranked bums, fought one good fighter and lost and did nothing ever again. Only difference is Toney struggled and went to war with Jirov whereas Calzaghe dominated Lacy.

Toney beats Hagler and does so convincingly.

Fair enough ,the more i watch Toney the more i think i rememberd only flashes of his talent and it fooled me,loved to watch his and roy highlights when he retired and Roy was old ,i seen they carrers on youtube cuse im to young ,shame i didnt have chance to watch 90s heros live,i need to give you this Hagler would probably pull it of.:hail: still not easy fight and good matchup IMO Honestly, that's how most people think of Toney and it's the reputation he increasingly garners over the years. People see flashy highlights and hear all these stories and comments about how super talented and amazing he was, and it has created this myth about James Toney that the reality doesn't match. I was the same at one point. Then you dig deeper into his career and you realize he was never the fighter the reputation says he was.

That's exactly what the kid is doing, asking questions and trying to learn. He admits that he's too young to know a lot of stuff hence why he's asking questions. Everyone starts somewhere. I respect the kid for being up front and honest in his attempt to learn, a lot of new comers don't do that and have a know it all attitude. But of course Ray acts like the cunt that he is.

......you asked, I answered. Study and learn! Why comments about a fighters history if you don't know it. Study, read, learn! There is a reason that Hagler, Monson and Robinson are considered the best at 160, read about them and find out why so when you comment your telling facts not guessing. Ray I learn couse i saw this fights ,was asking about theyr family ,and some guy replied that this Monroe is Jr's great uncle ,you didnt said anything about that but thanks for little bit of history appreciate that my friend.

......you asked, I answered. Study and learn! Why comments about a fighters history if you don't know it. Study, read, learn! There is a reason that Hagler, Monson and Robinson are considered the best at 160, read about them and find out why so when you comment your telling facts not guessing. Ray

"Btw did Hagler lost to Willy monroe jr's father or they are not related"? This is why studying a mans opponents and learning when & where they fought has a lot to do with evaluating his talents. Monroe was 36-3-1 when he won a un. decs. in 10 from Hagler in Philly. One year later Monroe is 3-1 since winning but gets stopped in 12rds in Mass. Hagler re matched him again and stopped him in 2rds back in Philly. Monroe was a contender and a true test for any middleweight at that time. I'm not passing Willie off as a great middleweight but at that time to go into Philly and take on the "home of tough guys" especially at 160 you got a chance to grow as a young fighter and learn more about boxing than fighting in your "home arena" against "picked" opponents. Hagler has a very good record against a lot of very good fighters and a few very dangerous men. Ray you are suggesting that i loughed from hagler couse of that? if so i didnt was just asking ,i dont know every boxer in the world and just asked. he also beat guy named Roy jones ,i saw this fight but idk if its Roy father.

"Btw did Hagler lost to Willy monroe jr's father or they are not related"? This is why studying a mans opponents and learning when & where they fought has a lot to do with evaluating his talents. Monroe was 36-3-1 when he won a un. decs. in 10 from Hagler in Philly. One year later Monroe is 3-1 since winning but gets stopped in 12rds in Mass. Hagler re matched him again and stopped him in 2rds back in Philly. Monroe was a contender and a true test for any middleweight at that time. I'm not passing Willie off as a great middleweight but at that time to go into Philly and take on the "home of tough guys" especially at 160 you got a chance to grow as a young fighter and learn more about boxing than fighting in your "home arena" against "picked" opponents. Hagler has a very good record against a lot of very good fighters and a few very dangerous men. Ray

Toney often struggled against lower level competition simply because of his attitude towards the sport (not always, but a lot of the time), he was lazy, arrogant and often overlooked opponents. Even with his problems outside the ring, he's still got wins over guys like Nunn, Reggie Johnson, McCallum, Jirov. Hagler struggled and lost against non-elite fighters too, and this is a bit cliche but his best wins were against smaller guys... Maybe Toney is a bit overrated generally speaking (not as much as you guys say), but his main downfall was his lack of dedication to the sport imo. Reggie Johnson was a gift decision as was the McCallum win. Nunn made him look like an amateur for 10 rounds and Jirov is Jeff Lacy before Jeff Lacy. Toney's problems stretched A LOT longer than "not being dedicated" which is conveniently the excuse for every single fight he ever had in his career. He struggled and lost so many times because he's one dimensional, has very little ring IQ, has no ability to make adjustments, has poor footwork, and the list of flaws goes on and on. It's irrelevant anyway because he's never shown anything to suggest to could be competitive with Hagler. Nothing. Not a single thing he's done in the ring suggests that.