If Victor Ortiz had haggler's chin/heart/determanation

Then he wouldn't be Ortiz. But if he did have a heart he would still have plateaued somewhere underneath the elite level because his skills were lacking and he wasn't smart, i.e. putting himself in a position to get suckerpunched by Mayweather. For Ortiz to have been truly great he would have needed a heart like Hagler and intelligence/craftiness like B-Hop. very well stated... victor is also a very good actor.... in and out of the ring...

hagler had sweet, sweet boxing skills. he could fight right or left handed, had some of the longest arms you'll ever see on a middleweight. ortiz boxed like his feet were stuck in the mud. awkward, front foot heavy style. i blame his being a converted southpaw. he'd have just lasted longer, or finished some of the fights where he quit. having a good chin won't help you get out of the way of the bombs. ortiz actually had an OK chin, IMO. he had trouble adjusting, and when the going got tough against maidana, lopez, and collazo, he quit.

F U! Marvin had no b1tch in him. Ortiz was a slap away from swolling swords. P4p my lil Jhonny kills and eats that guy then craps him out. I love what chino did to him, and I am a Mexican!

If Paulie had power...etc etc. Too many IF's. What you must remember is peoples style develops to make up for some things they lack too. Take Malignaggi for instance, if he had power added to other things he had, he would have been excellent right? But if he had power, he might not have developed a jab as good as he did and some other skills. So then essentially he wouldn't be the same fighter at all. If Floyd was a heavy handed banger, would he have ever developed his great defensive style to the incredible level he did?

If Khan had a granite chin then he'd be unbeatable.

If i had a heart i could love you, if i had a voice i could sing.

He didn't have Hagler's chin for a start!

That's a rather gigantic if.Even giving those great Hagler gifts I don't think Ortiz would have been anything special. He is a sharp puncher but his overall skills weren't all that good. He would have done much better than he did. He would have won some fights he lost but I seriously doubt he could beat a quality fighter like Thurman, Porter, Brook or Spence. Peterson held him to a draw in a fight that didn't test his heart or chin. I think he would have been about as good as Danny Garcia but certainly no better. Garcia has plenty of heart and plenty of chin and he hits hard so Ortiz would be on a par with him with the Hagler gifts but no better. Heart and chin are great assets but overall skill is just as important.

If i was 6 inch's taller 10 pounds lighter and 20 years younger i'd have a chance for a NBA career

Then he wouldn't be Ortiz. But if he did have a heart he would still have plateaued somewhere underneath the elite level because his skills were lacking and he wasn't smart, i.e. putting himself in a position to get suckerpunched by Mayweather. For Ortiz to have been truly great he would have needed a heart like Hagler and intelligence/craftiness like B-Hop. agreed....i think he would of made it to the hall.........but not an atg

He didn't have those so close the thread lol LOL fair enough.......i knew haggler fans would get pissed at this thread lol

He didn't have those so close the thread lol

I agree Ortiz's biggest problem is that he is Ortiz.

Then he wouldn't be Ortiz. But if he did have a heart he would still have plateaued somewhere underneath the elite level because his skills were lacking and he wasn't smart, i.e. putting himself in a position to get suckerpunched by Mayweather. For Ortiz to have been truly great he would have needed a heart like Hagler and intelligence/craftiness like B-Hop.

If ORtiz was Hagler, he'd be good... too bad he's Ortiz

If he had those intangibles he's a HOF

one of my fav fighters..........how far could he have gone??????? Which is the favorite fighter? Ortiz or Hagler? If any fight had the attributes of Hagler they would have went far. All Ortiz needed was heart and his career would have did fine.