A return to the original weight class system

Wasn't really directed at you my post was in general, some fans do want to somewhat change rules simply because by changing rules it helps the fighters they like Besides you calling me a "B1tch" for no reason, you do make a valid point as far as guys fighting in a Division and not being allowed to be "Floaters" like Chavez Jr and Canelo he don't want to pick a Division You're right. No need for name-calling. I just didn't appreciation the insinuation.

The changes I suggested would help the sport as a whole, not necessarily individual fighters. But you know who wouldn't benefit? Pússies that don't feel like fighting at a real weight class. And new boxing fans? Are you serious? Motherfúcker if I hadn't been watching this sport for years I wouldn't even realize there was a problem. I would just assume that famous fighters got to pick the weight. Move along, bítch. The grownups are talking. Wasn't really directed at you my post was in general, some fans do want to somewhat change rules simply because by changing rules it helps the fighters they like Besides you calling me a "B1tch" for no reason, you do make a valid point as far as guys fighting in a Division and not being allowed to be "Floaters" like Chavez Jr and Canelo he don't want to pick a Division

Money talks. Titles fought at catchweights aren't going anywhere. I'm all for a hard line on this stuff, but it ain't happening. Not until people stop buying PPV's.

Nobody is going to change rules for YOU or any of these new boxing fans who now want to change things not because it needs to be change but more so because it can potentially benefit the fighter THEY LIKE! The changes I suggested would help the sport as a whole, not necessarily individual fighters. But you know who wouldn't benefit? Pússies that don't feel like fighting at a real weight class. And new boxing fans? Are you serious? Motherfúcker if I hadn't been watching this sport for years I wouldn't even realize there was a problem. I would just assume that famous fighters got to pick the weight. Move along, bítch. The grownups are talking.

Nobody is going to change rules for YOU or any of these new boxing fans who now want to change things not because it needs to be change but more so because it can potentially benefit the fighter THEY LIKE!

Don't you think it'd just be easier to assign a guy a weight class based on various determining factors (BMI, gravity testing, your body type, etc) upon getting your initial boxing license to come up with a healthy weight range? Then we get rid of weight cutting entirely with everyone fighting at their walking around weight. Then we'd just need to weigh guys before fights & make sure they were within their healthy weight range & from there just make sure the other guy is within a reasonable weight distance from the opponent. One of my biggest boxer related problems in boxing is the weight cutting sport within a sport that making weight opens things up for. You'll never get rid of weight cutting, it's a great example of game theory in practice. But yeah you're spot on with the preliminary testing to assign fighters to a class (or limit how low they are allowed to cut). Currently, California and Arkansas are both doing that for amateur boxing & mma fighters. I agree though, extreme weight cutting hurts the sport. It either hurts the fighter making the cut or it provides an unfair advantage for some young fighters and puts their naturally smaller opponents in serious danger.

So we shouldn't try to stop our favorite sport from being a circus? Love that mentality. And I do believe that weight issues have been a big problem in boxing, especially in recent years. And yes, the situation with Canelo is a big part of the problem. He has been handed a a decent resume because he's an attractive Mexican that brings a huge fan base. Fan base = money = power. Now he is using that power to maintain his good resume and avoid fighting at a real weight class. But goddammit, why does this sport still need to be held hostage by greed? Just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't ever address any of them. As a fan, I'd like to improve the sport, and not just remain satisfied with the status quo. I also believe that ring size should be standardized. One size fits all. Re-hydration is a tougher issue, but that would be solved with same-day weigh-ins, which I also wholeheartedly support. Because in bigger fights it's usually not two guys agreeing to meet in the middle, it's the A-side using that leverage to gain any sort advantage on an opponent, whether or not the B-side appears to agree to the terms. Pac did it to Cotto, Floyd did it to Canelo, and Canelo's doing it to everybody. Again, you are merely stating the reality of the current situation, but not justifying the validity of the situation. Would it be that terrible to force all boxers to fight in one weight class or the other? God forbid they actually have to maintain their weight in order to be professional fighters... MMA fighters seem to be doing fine. Either permanently cut weight, or eat some steak and potatoes and put on some muscle. Fighters in the UFC have moved up and down and have been successful in different weight classes, and these are legit jumps, not 5-6 pounds. And the arguments aren't silly. I would venture to guess that many big fights in recent years haven't been won or lost in the ring, but in the gym when the fighter was trying to make weight, or in the sauna two hours before the weigh-in. When you shed every ounce of fat on your body, two more pounds can make a big difference. I will concede to this point. I'm sure fans will just find other things to argue about, but again, just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to remedy specific issues. Weight seems like a common source of problems during negotiations, so it stands to reason that eliminating that problem would make fights easier to negotiate, right? Less bullshít, more big fights. Awesome stuff!! Really great. A corrupt sport like boxing cleaned up by fans.? Show me a plan to implement it, and I will join you. I think back to a time when I was young, and Mick Jagger was much younger, he sung, " hey you, get off of my cloud, ..." I miss being young and optimistic! That is a gift from God, please never lose it. It seems like catch weights spread faster than compassion. Sad isn't it?

With the current "in-between" weights (130, 154, etc.) used as the only allowable catchweights. A boxer must fight all matches at a legit weight class, and can only use a catchweight if he is fighting a boxer from the weight class above or below. In addition, titles can never be on the line in a catchweight fight. Ever. No one fighter is above the system, regardless of their fame or profitability. Period. Just an idea I had a while back, but I think this would solve a lot of problems in boxing. Less champions, and no weight issues to hash out during negotiations. Would you approve of this type of weight class system? I would support it. I think less divisions, and the elimination of catchweights is a good thing. The best should fight the best, period. Whether out of their own ambition, or with a gun to their head.

You obviously are just typing & not reading what I'm saying. Like I keep saying most catchweights happen between guys you don't know & won't know. Canelo & A sides are doing 0.003% of the catchweight fights in boxing. Catchweight fights mostly happen at the club show level & other off TV events where fights get made with only days to prepare for a particular opponent & maybe he's heavy or maybe you haven't had time to train so your heavy cuz you got a full time job right now & all sorts of things like that that tends to come about with hours or days til fight time. I don't think you grasp how far boxing branches out. Trust me, I'm reading your posts, but the best reasoning you can offer is that since the fights are low level and no one is that invested, than a CW shouldn't be an issue. Fine, you're right; it probably isn't an issue for the individuals, but that's still not a justification for their use. I don't give a shít if I know the fighters names or if it's some low-level club fight. I'm talking about standardizing aspects of the sport so stipulations like CWs can't ever be used to gain an advantage. If a fighter can't make 147 because he hasn't had time to train, then the fight weight can be changed to 154 (or 160 if SWW didn't exist). Both guys can come in weighing whatever they want, as long as it's below 154. No catch weight needed. Would that really be a problem to anyone involved? I suppose a system could be put into place where CWs are only allowed if you aren't ranked in the top 25 by whatever belt organization is sanctioning the fight. That way club fighters can do whatever the fúck they want, but world level boxers (who should be maintaining their weight anyway) would be expected to fight at a particular weight. I never said it wasn't. Just that it doesn't happen that much that it should be considered a problem. Go list all the high profile guys commanding catchweights in the last 5 years that you got a problem with doing this. I'd bet you'd have problems coming up with 10 guys, hell maybe 5 guys. This is a made up problem on the mass scale. Banning catchweights would be like banning the purchase of guns for everyone cuz one guy went on a shooting spree. Off the top of my head - Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Broner. However, I don't think it needs to be a widespread problem to still need to be addressed. The fact that the MW championship has been throatfúcked into oblivion over the past three years should lead boxing fans to demand a change. Also, one of the main points of my original post was that CWs can still exist, but they should be at a standard weight that is non-negotiable. Even with the current weight class system, if fighter A is at 140 and fighter B is at 147, their should be a set CW in place that has to be respected. However, fighter A is certainly more than welcome to flex nuts and sign up to fight at the full WW limit, but he shouldn't be forced to. But again, I am being incredibly idealistic. There are so many competing entities in boxing that would have to agree to the same set of rules. That's just one of the reasons why I believe we need an international governing body. Not likely to happen anytime soon, but still... I want this sport to survive and thrive in the 21st century, and I believe that several changes need to be made in order to keep this sport legitimate in the eyes of the fans.

No. What's done is done. Even with the extra weight classes going, those who held the titles still should get recognition. It wasn't their fault, after all. The problem is there are too many sanctioning bodies. How to get rid of them? My best guess is that the money has to go down enough that fighters don't want to pay sanctioning fees and they go under. Whatever it takes, I'm ready for the sport to go back and make things simpler and much more exciting. Fair approach. Implemention would be an interesting issue to undertake. I asked many of the slow motion video guys (Floyd vs PAC). How would such a system be implemented? For the purely retarded, the only wanted it applied to Floyd vs PAC, but not all previous fights in history. Not trying to change the topic, but I see similarities in the underlying issues, but you what you are proposing cannot invalidate previous titles. So may vs PAC in slow motion is meaningless also. Makes sense to me.

I'm in total support of this system. For one thing, you have to look at the smaller weights- 105, 108, 112, 115, 118, 122, 126, 130. That is EIGHT divisions separated by TWENTY-FIVE pounds. Now, THAT is ridiculous and there's no other way to put it- corrupt. The only reason for having so many classes so close together is not for fighter safety in the least. It is about more titles and more money. The other divisions are a bit more understandable and cruiserweight could stay and make it nine. I'm okay with that, but the others should go for sure. Another thing is to look at the possible tournaments that could follow. The 105, 108 and 112 pound champions could all face off along with the 115 and 118 pound champions, the 122 and 126 pound champions, the 130 and 135, the 140 and 147, the 154 and the 160 and the 168 and 175. Seven tournaments all with guys who had enough talent to win a belt at least. That could be very interesting. A third thing is for legacy. The middleweights of yore like Robinson, LaMotta and Graziano can't be compared to fighters who spent their careers at 154. I mean, of course, they can but it's more difficult because those guys never fought at 160. So who can say? The more we get back to all the world rules is better IMO. I am nostalgic, but I also think most modern changes over the last fifty years gave us more problems than solutions to problems that were fabricated only for seedy reasons. This is a money sport and money drives it. However, how can it make money if there's no respect for it any longer? The other sports crown one champion per year- just one. UFC has its weight classes set and they're not changing. That is good for the sport. it avoids confusion and helps casual fans become hardcore fans. If these changes did take place, there would be different views on whether or not the modern changes should have been done away with. However, I doubt the majority would have been in favor of so many titles and so many weight divisions. It would be laughed at by future eras of fans. Interesting idea: Would guys like PAC, ODLH, etc, be stripped of titles ex post facto? Some guys on this site, want slow motion for May/PAC only. Not PAC/Marquez 3. The point I am trying to make is simple, how do you implement any change in boxing, when the sanctioning bodies can't, and won't agree on many things? Additionally, state gaming commissions have different rules.

Fewer weight classes and stricter & more frequent weigh-ins.

Again I assume you are new. Its not a "recent years" problem. Ray Leonard won a 175lb title with a 168lb catchweight. He defended that 168lb title he won on the same night at a catchweight of 164lbs twice. That was 27ish years ago. This ain't nothing new at all. I bet I could go back further if I was better at boxing history. Who the **** is "we". Thats the biggest problem with any of the stuff you are talking about. There is no we in boxing. I definitely agree there should be one glove & one ring used universally. I think weight cutting & rehydration shouldn't even be a discussion cuz they shouldn't be happening. Fighters should have a "healthy walking around weight range" given to them upon being giving a boxing license & as long as they weigh that before the fight & is opponent is within a fair range of that amount the fight is on. That would cut most of the bs with weight right there. Yea I'd agree the catchweight stuff most people hear is this stuff & not the 99% of catchweight fights happening at the club level & up. That is largely about the alphabet groups being more worried about money then anything else. All the alphabet groups could tomorrow say that you can't catchweight title fights. They got the leverage. This ain't something you & I needs to hands across the world with other boxing fans to accomplish. The powers that be don't have a problem with that so it is what it is. Go write them a mean letter. I'll sign it even though my overall opinion is that if fighters agree to a weight in a non-title or title fight it should be fine, but I do still see the argument that title fights for 160lb titles should have a weight limit of 160. Again you're thinking Canelo & Floyd & Manny & Sugar Ray. 99% of these catchweight fights are among guys probably making bs money to get hit in the head for our entertainment. The reality is fights at the club level are barely professional fights due to the matchmaking. Its one half-way decent guy to legit prospect vs a guy who's gonna fall down or lose. These aren't realllllyyyy professional fighters. No f#cking clue what you mean here. Boxers move up & down are successful too. And catchweights happen in MMA. And not just that couple lbs over stuff the UFC does. The stuff you see on TV or PPV isn't the whole universe of boxing & MMA. There are shows that might be happening in your city or state with guys few outside of your city or state will ever talk about. Again you are WAYYYY to Canelo, Floyd, Manny & Sugar Ray focused. There are 20,000 active boxers at any given time. Your problem is apparently with the 1 guy who's active now & abusing this catchweight thing via his drawing power. Makes zero sense to alter something cuz of one f#cking guy when 19,999 aren't doing anything wrong. Giving everyone the same glove & same ring size makes much more sense than something like weight that is a more problematic issue involving living human beings trying to control what they eat or don't eat & late notice fights & opponent changes & all the realities of club show boxing. Any yet no one brings up the same glove & ring size like they bring up catchweight. I assure you there are many more guys getting gloves they want or insuring their opponent gets a non-favorable glove + guys who are main event level on the local level to higher surely are getting the smaller ring if they are punchers or bigger rings if they are boxers to better insure they win than there are guys getting favorable catchweights. But you rarely here about that stuff cuz no one really tracks or listens to that stuff. Just go back to Sugar Ray again. If you look into his fight demands he was always requiring certain gloves & certain ring sizes in most of his biggest fights even when he didn't have a catchweight. Oscar did that to Floyd, but no one talks about that hardly ever. Weight stuff is a sexier topic I guess. Yeah, by "we" I mean all boxing fans. I know that I'm being an idealist, but is it that far-fetched to believe that all boxing fans could agree on something? Especially something as shítty as A-sides forcing catchweights. The UFC comparison was used to illustrate that wider gaps in weight classes aren't necessarily detrimental. And no, catchweights are not nearly as common in MMA, and this crap with Canelo would never, ever fly. But I suppose that has something to do with how MMA organizations operate. In addition, boxers rarely move up and then come back down. When was the last time a boxer won a title, then jumped up 15-20 lbs, and then came back to their original weight class and continued to win fights? I supposed we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue of catchweights, although you still haven't offered a good reason as to why they should exist. You've just stated that they're common and have existed for years... and? That's nothing but a naturalistic fallacy and an argument from tradition. Neither of which actually supports the continued need for catchweights at any level. And yes, CWs used by more popular fighters are obviously less common, but they are also more likely to be watched by casual fans, so they appear to be more common at the higher level than they really are. IMO, this sets a bad precedent. If you ask me, it's just another tactic to gain an advantage, just like gloves, ring size, etc., at least in high level fights. And it's like I said, if fans don't want CWs at higher level fights, then we can't have them at lower level fights, either. But whatevs. We can agree to disagree.

i'm fine with the weights bein gthe way they are. the new weight classes will be an impediment to fights getting made. for instance, the jump between 130-135-140-147 seem trivial to the layman, but are significant when you're talking about a similar class of fighter. a great 140 lber beats a great 135 lber, and likely destroys a great 130 lber. what they need to do away with, for the sake of the purity of competition, are the f3cking alphabets. those are some of hte most corrupt and backward sporting orgs on the planet. that they're allowed to exist and operate international f#cking blows my mind. i'm in the wrong business. i have to play by real rules :lol1:. I'm actually okay with more than one tbh, but I guess it has to do with my love of professional wrestling so we can crown an "undisputed" World champion :lol1: WBA/WBC was good enough, IBF a little too much as it allows for the existence of a weak champion and the WBO simply made it redundant

Some of those weight classes I don't mind, 168 lbs has been a treat for a ages. The more knowledgeable/older guys can tell me if it was always the case.

i'm fine with the weights bein gthe way they are. the new weight classes will be an impediment to fights getting made. for instance, the jump between 130-135-140-147 seem trivial to the layman, but are significant when you're talking about a similar class of fighter. a great 140 lber beats a great 135 lber, and likely destroys a great 130 lber. what they need to do away with, for the sake of the purity of competition, are the f3cking alphabets. those are some of hte most corrupt and backward sporting orgs on the planet. that they're allowed to exist and operate international f#cking blows my mind. i'm in the wrong business. i have to play by real rules :lol1:.

So long as they don't get rid of Cruiserweight I'm cool.

It hasn't been a problem, so why is it a problem now? Because of Caneloweight? Like it or not boxing is a circus. So we shouldn't try to stop our favorite sport from being a circus? Love that mentality. And I do believe that weight issues have been a big problem in boxing, especially in recent years. And yes, the situation with Canelo is a big part of the problem. He has been handed a a decent resume because he's an attractive Mexican that brings a huge fan base. Fan base = money = power. Now he is using that power to maintain his good resume and avoid fighting at a real weight class. But goddammit, why does this sport still need to be held hostage by greed? There are a million problems in boxing cuz everyone can make their own rules to one degree or another. Weight is just one of them. If you want hard rules on weight, why not hard rules for everything? One hard rule on weigh in times. On rehydration. On the gloves to be used. On the ring size. You need to streamline everything. You need a NFL of boxing which isn't close to being a reality. Just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't ever address any of them. As a fan, I'd like to improve the sport, and not just remain satisfied with the status quo. I also believe that ring size should be standardized. One size fits all. Re-hydration is a tougher issue, but that would be solved with same-day weigh-ins, which I also wholeheartedly support. Its silly so many people are freaked out that two guys wanna fight each other at 143lbs, but somehow fighting in a giant or tiny ring or with punchers gloves or a giant catchers mitt is cool. Because in bigger fights it's usually not two guys agreeing to meet in the middle, it's the A-side using that leverage to gain any sort advantage on an opponent, whether or not the B-side appears to agree to the terms. Pac did it to Cotto, Floyd did it to Canelo, and Canelo's doing it to everybody. No its not. Its mostly random fights on club shows or wherever between two guys who don't wanna lose those last 3 lbs to get down or can't make or don't wanna make the weight they wanna ultimately compete in for some bs club fight thats paying them $500-$2,000 or whatever. They are bs random fights between guys you don't know & likely will never hear of. Go on boxrec & look at a few random full cards. You find these fights there all the time & you'll find them thru every era that they have weight statistics on. Again, you are merely stating the reality of the current situation, but not justifying the validity of the situation. Would it be that terrible to force all boxers to fight in one weight class or the other? God forbid they actually have to maintain their weight in order to be professional fighters... All you are doing is likely risking injuries or mismatches. In particular in the bigger divisions by making this a thing. For an easy example you'd be forcing a 185ish guy to try to lose more weight than its probably healthy to do or you are forcing him to fight 200lb guys who got a 15lb weight advantage over him. All cuz boxing fans are making silly arguments about catchweights. LOL. MMA fighters seem to be doing fine. Either permanently cut weight, or eat some steak and potatoes and put on some muscle. Fighters in the UFC have moved up and down and have been successful in different weight classes, and these are legit jumps, not 5-6 pounds. And the arguments aren't silly. I would venture to guess that many big fights in recent years haven't been won or lost in the ring, but in the gym when the fighter was trying to make weight, or in the sauna two hours before the weigh-in. When you shed every ounce of fat on your body, two more pounds can make a big difference. Come on man. You must be new cuz you should know by now boxing fans will make silly arguments about anything anyway. Catchweights, type gloves, ring size, bouncy castle rings if Wladimir would have been able to get Fury to fight in his, prime (prime arguments are great for trolls cuz they are open as wide or as small as you can argue well that they are, like to hear some people talk about it Floyd's prime was his whole career cuz he didn't lose, like your body stays the same as long as you are racking up W's) & all sorts of other ****. I will concede to this point. I'm sure fans will just find other things to argue about, but again, just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to remedy specific issues. Weight seems like a common source of problems during negotiations, so it stands to reason that eliminating that problem would make fights easier to negotiate, right? Less bullshít, more big fights.

i think there needs to be a complete overhaul of divisions, reduce it back down to 10-12. maybe use the AIBA or even UFC weight classes as a model and a fighter's weight on the night shouldn't exceed the upper limit of the division above him, with the punishment of losing his titles if he has any and being fined (so e.g. a middleweight couldn't weigh more than 168 lbs in the ring) i think this rehydration rule would render the divisions below 120ish redundant. maybe 115 at a stretch. i don't believe there are many world class fighters who actually weigh <115 in the ring, at least not enough of them to justify whole divisions existing especially for them in fact, according to boxrec there are only ~2,000 active fighters who weigh between 115 and 105, which actually encompasses four whole divisions. if they were combined into one, then it would be equal in depth to welterweight or lightweight oh, and just ban catchweight title fights altogether of course this is a total fantasy. don't know why i even bother to dream of a boxing that makes sense

Why even give a f#ck about catchweights at the less than title level in the first place? If two guys wanna fight each other at 143lbs who cares? Why care? I don't for the life of me understand this. Plus this stuff happens ALL THE TIME, pretty much on every card you can find some catchweight fight. I don't think people understand how common, accepted & part of the game this is. Who the f#ck cares if you fight at 143 for a 3rd late replacement 5-17-2 record guy as a prospect? Silliness. The idea that catchweights are okay because they're commonplace isn't a valid argument. What is isn't necessarily what ought to be. Hume's law and whatnot. It might seem fine for a couple of prospects to agree on weight, usually because there is no money involved and no one really gives a shít. Also, in a lot of these type of fights, it's a rising prospect with a big promoter fighting a journeyman, with the latter having to agree to whatever catchweight if he wants to get paid. But think about how much bullshít have boxing fans been forced to sit through because of weight nonsense. How many arguments continue to this day that a fighter only won or lost due to the catchweight? If you implement a system like this, it couldn't just be for championship-level fights. It would have to be enforced across the board. No exceptions.