In reality, resume does not do justice to how talented a fighter is, which looks like the only means of judging a fighter here.
For example,
BJS has win over Eubank and Andy Lee (two guys who would be the best win in GGG's resume), yet BJS would lose to GGG in the eyes of 99/100 experts.
Same goes for Jacobs.
A resume can never show your real quality or flaw, provided you have so many controversial decisions now a days. Is Canelo p4p a better fighter than Lara? No.
Is Floyd's win over Manny any less historic despite Manny having 5 loses, two of them recently to Bradly and Marquez(By KO)? No. Because everyone knows Manny is a better fighter .
Rigo apart from Donaire has no great name, people avoid him, doesnt make him any lesser and is clearly the best of the division despite having an inferior resume. And people know it. Same goes for GGG. You can't force a fight.
In reality, you just need to see a fighter, how he performs, basically a critical eye test to see how good a fighter is/can be.
IMO Resumes defines a mere 30-40% of a fighter not the other way around like given credit here on NSB.
And that is the concept behind p4p list as well. If that wasnt the case, Danny Garcia would be in top 5 of every p4p list. But he isnt' because even after such a great resume people know he isnt of the highest calible p4p
wise
Same goes for Canelo, great resume, but all of them smaller lower division fighter, your internal instinct and brain knows he can't be top 5 p4p irrespective of his resume.
If one uses resume as the ONLY criteria, then yes it is problematic but who a fighter beats is a big part of his career. But, his skill set, his performances, his dominance, title wins etc all play a role.
I agree. One of the problem with boxing world is that they fail to acknowledge the timings of the fight. When GGG faught Proska, Macklin, Murray etc they all were top5-10 MWs.
Just like when Floyd faught Ghost he was an undefeated top contender, if ghosts went on to become trash doesnt mean Floyd doesnt get full credit for it.
Boxers like Zab Judah etc all went on a downhill, but because of the timings Floyd gets full credit of beating them.
The ghost beat berto to get that fight, and judah lost his fight before the mayweather fight...
I think it's somewhat the other way around; the eye test is given too much credit. For example, everyone thought Verdejo was going to be the next Tito, and now we have seen how his career has stalled due to bad performances against better competition (his competition wasn't even supposed to be any good, but the opponent had a better record than what was officially attributed). But, Verdejo looks great when he's knocking out low-level fighters and thus the hype.
Whether it's fair to judge it the same way or not, the same is happening with GGG. He could very well be as good as many think he is, but we won't ever know for sure until he fights the best. I'm not saying that's his fault, but it's the truth.
Cotto beat Geale, who has an argument for best win on GGG's resume, and that was just a tune-up. He even beat Geale better than GGG did. Moreover, Cotto has the best resume in boxing. But who's higher on the pound-for-pound list?
Any fighter can be hyped up all the way to Kimbo Slice level, but it doesn't mean anything until it's proven.
As it was already stated, "A beat B" does not tell the whole story. In this case the variable "at which weight" makes a lot of difference. Not to mention that GGG faced Geale who was never KOd, while Cotto faced Geale, who already had KO loss. Confidence is a big factor.
If we eliminate Resume what should we go by? Knockout Ratio? :nonono:
This is a "Boxing For Dummies" mentality, sounds like some Lampley would suggest on The Fight Game which nobody watches
It gets difficult, but as I say it's the only fair way as otherwise it's just a guessing game. Especially if the fighter you want to rank above others has no standout wins.
Not exactly a "guessing game" more a matter of opinion. Even with resumes there are alot of variables involved like age, at what point in a fighters career did he beat a certain opponent, was it at that fighters best weight? So even boxers with wins over the same opponent could have faced a totally different fighter.
Unfortunately rating boxers is mostly about opinions and thats why you see these never ending arguments here. lol
Donaire always lost when he stepped up? Montiel, Vetyeka and Vic are better than anyone coward golovkin fought.
Its funny how a fan of the most overrated fighter of this generations who cheats his way out of close fights to get victories is calling others cowards who actually fight and win against fighters their own size. p4p my aunt is a better fighter than the fraud i.e Canelo. And that is a fact, my aunt used to spar.
Its too early to say whether Donaire is a HOF and one of the best fighters. He has always lost whenever he stepped up. Talking about former champions, Kassim Ouma , Geale, Rubio all are former champions including Lemieux now.
And you just proved my point as to why Resumes shouldnt be the sole criteria of judging a fighter's capability as you seem to give Murray no credit at all. A straight forward hater like you would just see a L on record and degrade that boxer into some bum without ever knowing or analyzing the real fight.
And even then, Rigo and GGG does not have that massive of a difference in their resume that one is top 3 and the other is not even in top 10.
Your hypocrisy again, is hilarious.
Unlike you, I consider both Rigo and GGG p4p as they have stood out since their amateur days because I don't hate someone for no reason.
Rubio never won a legit title
The only titleholders GGG beat were a shot to sh1t ouma, geale n lemmie
Ams don't count....GGG is on the cusp of p4p has to fight an elite fighter first
Did you pick Takam to beat Parker?
"MUH RESUME DOE!" lol
Sigh. Idiots on this forum missing the point as usual. You're probably one of them idiots who says Roy Jones is the greatest fighter who ever lived by the eye test. I guess I shouldn't get too mad about the idiocy on this forum - barely anyone on it has ever had even an amateur fight. Hell, I'd wager that probably 80% have never sparred.
That's not the point. The point is you can't anoint a fighter until they've actually done something. A fighter should never be praised until they beat top fighters.
Did you pick Takam to beat Parker?
"MUH RESUME DOE!" lol
And should he praised/not be praised if every other Top fighter has ducked him ?
He shouldn't be praised, the people who have ducked him should be heavily slated. But unfortunately I simply cannot rate a fighter too highly until they beat top opponents, no matter what the circumstances because you just cannot judge until they do. However, since this thread was made with GGG in mind, I will say that he is being ducked shamelessly and I have no respect for *****boy Canelo any more as a result.
That's not the point. The point is you can't anoint a fighter until they've actually done something. A fighter should never be praised until they beat top fighters.
And should he praised/not be praised if every other Top fighter has ducked him ?
Why didn't Takam beat Parker?
Takam has a better resume. What happened? Like to hear all the resumef@gs tell it
That's not the point. The point is you can't anoint a fighter until they've actually done something. A fighter should never be praised until they beat top fighters.
The thing is - resumes are utilized blindly, without distinction HOW the fighter fared against his opposition, just based on the mere fact that he faced them. To me this is oversimplification. Canelo faced Floyd and Lara. And was beaten by first and had a draw (in most views) with the second. But they are "on his resume"...
I agree. There are people who consider even a L fight as a part of fighter's resume. If that were the case Darnel Boone would be p4p.
Donaire is a future hall of famer and one of the best fighters of the last 10 years....Agbeko is a former champion and is rico ramos.....murray never beat a top contender and lost all his big fights...lemieux is decent but "meh"
do you think lemmie and murray are better than all those guys at 126 and below no one watches(i do) and the usual suspects.
lemieux at least beat N'jikam who the hell has murray beat besides euro level guys
Its too early to say whether Donaire is a HOF and one of the best fighters. He has always lost whenever he stepped up. Talking about former champions, Kassim Ouma , Geale, Rubio all are former champions including Lemieux now.
And you just proved my point as to why Resumes shouldnt be the sole criteria of judging a fighter's capability as you seem to give Murray no credit at all. A straight forward hater like you would just see a L on record and degrade that boxer into some bum without ever knowing or analyzing the real fight.
And even then, Rigo and GGG does not have that massive of a difference in their resume that one is top 3 and the other is not even in top 10.
Your hypocrisy again, is hilarious.
Unlike you, I consider both Rigo and GGG p4p as they have stood out since their amateur days because I don't hate someone for no reason.
The thing is - resumes are utilized blindly, without distinction HOW the fighter fared against his opposition, just based on the mere fact that he faced them. To me this is oversimplification. Canelo faced Floyd and Lara. And was beaten by first and had a draw (in most views) with the second. But they are "on his resume"...
Without beating top 50? So Murray Lemeix Geale were not inside Top 50 ?
Yet you have Rigo in your p4p as no.3 with only one good win of Donaire (who was also moving up in weight and has also lost again meaning he is no elite),
Trolls like you have an unparalleled hypocrisy.
bro....Donaire lost to a friggin giant(walters) who dwarfed him in his 5th-6th divison....
Without beating top 50? So Murray Lemeix Geale were not inside Top 50 ?
Yet you have Rigo in your p4p as no.3 with only one good win of Donaire (who was also moving up in weight and has also lost again meaning he is no elite),
Trolls like you have an unparalleled hypocrisy.
Donaire is a future hall of famer and one of the best fighters of the last 10 years....Agbeko is a former champion and is rico ramos.....murray never beat a top contender and lost all his big fights...lemieux is decent but "meh"
do you think lemmie and murray are better than all those guys at 126 and below no one watches(i do) and the usual suspects.
lemieux at least beat N'jikam who the hell has murray beat besides euro level guys