American boxing is dead

Wilder vs Povetkin(drug cheat) Ward vs Kovalev Porter vs Thurman Americans are involved in the biggest fights this year. What are the big fights that doesn't involve an American this year? Canelo vs GGG will NOT happen this year.

It starts with the amateur system. The last gold medalist was Ward in 2004. It's no coincidence he's the last special fighter that's come from here. US greats of the past were great amateurs: Ali Frazier Foreman Leonard Holyfield Whitaker Jones Jr. Mayweather De La Hoya Ward All Olympic medalists. Ali, Leonard, Whitaker, Jones and Mayweather were each long reigning top p4p fighters and had stellar amateur careers. It just goes to show you, most ATGs that came from the USA were the product of a strong farm system. We've lost that and it's apparent when you look at the current landscape. i agree with this. with the rich history you guys have the fact that in the last 3 olympics you only got one gold medal in boxing is really strange.

Boxing isn't nearly as popular as it once was but you're starting to see a lot of Mexican American talent and they look pretty legit. Mario Barrios, David Benavidez, Joseph Diaz, Frankie Gomez, etc. Many people don't realize our hispanic population is 55 million, we've got a very diverse country not just black/white. You've also got guys like Julian Williams, Crawford, Spence, Wilder, Thurman etc.

These questions will be answered this summer at the olympics

Aren't Americans neck and neck with British boxers as far as number of champions? And British boxing supposedly more popular than American boxing, but they're neck and neck in titlists. So what that says is that the US is blooming only when they're absolutely on top of boxing by a wide margin?

Yeah right, Hearn. Your top guys are bummy as fuck. Degayle? Kelly Brook? Anthony Juice-ua? Hot garbage. Why does it matter how the UK is doing? If anything the fact that we are having so much success without really improving the level of talent is showing how the standards have dropped over the years.

Nothing to do with American boxing and all to do with other countries producing fighters and globalization which has allowed for these fighters to get noticed. Anyone can hop on plane and go see the local talent in some small eastern European town or Filipino village. Communication technologies that allow for one to stream a fight in some basement to a global audience. America simply doesn't have a monopoly on the sport anymore.

Came in expecting to see someone blaming Floyd or Haymon, and I wasn't disappointed.

Yeah right, Hearn. Your top guys are bummy as fuck. Degayle? Kelly Brook? Anthony Juice-ua? Hot garbage.

I can see what you are saying for sure. From where they have come from they have dropped massively, especially in the heavier divisions. However there are some good fighters about who i have my eye on. Some might make it others wont, but they look good right now... Julian Williams, Andrade and Jermall Charlo (to a lesser extent Jermell) at LMW look quality. I think they have a big part to play in the future of the LMW and MW divisions. Gervonta Davis at 130 and Robert Easter Jr at 135 look good. Errol Spence is coming up strong at 147. Benevidez at LHW (brother of the 140lber, who is also good). Unfortunately American boxing is being choked to death by this cold war between HBO block and Haymon Bloc. So many of these fighter are being held back, imo because promoters dont want them to lose until the cold war is over. I think there is still talent there, especially in the middle to lower divisions.

Don't get me wrong they have a long history of amazing fighters but what has happened? Seriously. Come on America sort it out! I put Shobox on last night. I've not seen a boring fight in that Cruiserweight division for the last 5 years. You could put my nan in with Usyk and it'd somehow be a good value scrap. 4 undefeated Cruiserweight contenders I was hyped to see who was going to go to to the next level and all I seen was headbutts & clinching. Literally more headbutts being thrown & clinches than punches. Pathetic. Then it got me thinking of all their current fighters. Andre Ward bores me to tears at times but I can appreciate his skills. Apart from Ward what good fighters does America have right now or even exciting fighters? Its all feather-fisted spoilers like not just a few most, if not all. I'm not trying to bash American boxing, as a fan I am concerned. How do you go from Mike Tyson, Hagler, Holyfield, Bowe & all these beasts to whatever the hell you're producing right now? All of them fight like they're in survival mode. You've got Ward at LHW that is about it apart from what are a few prospects around light middle. Crawford, Thurman are knocking on the door we'll see in their next fights. Is it todays trainers in America? I know people will get butthurt over me pointing it out but surely they must see where I am coming from and be concerned because its terrible for the sport. I think it might come down to finances as well. Paying certain fighters excessively and others not enough. Never happen but I'd love to see a system in place also in other sports where your pay varies depending on your performances. I don't want to begrudge anybody of a payday but when you've got a great opportunity to raise your stock, you're getting paid well to fight well a nobody you probably should go out and look to make a statement or at least try. About 5 years back America had the #1 in majority of the 17 divisions. They now have 0. Bradley, Mayweather, Dawson, Steve Cunningham, Ward, Ortiz was there briefly, I think Rios was elevated when JMM moved up I really do hope the '08 olympians are for real and are about to flood the world scene. What is American boxing? The Americas cover Canada to Argentina. I love ignorant fools. And why does "American" boxing matter? How about just boxing? Shut your ignorant nationalistic mouth and learn to be a fan of the sport first, and local fighters second. You are the type of moron that I am ashamed to say I went to war for in Iraq and Afghanistan. You would be more useful as my human shield.

Don't get me wrong they have a long history of amazing fighters but what has happened? Seriously. Come on America sort it out! I put Shobox on last night. I've not seen a boring fight in that Cruiserweight division for the last 5 years. You could put my nan in with Usyk and it'd somehow be a good value scrap. 4 undefeated Cruiserweight contenders I was hyped to see who was going to go to to the next level and all I seen was headbutts & clinching. Literally more headbutts being thrown & clinches than punches. Pathetic. Then it got me thinking of all their current fighters. Andre Ward bores me to tears at times but I can appreciate his skills. Apart from Ward what good fighters does America have right now or even exciting fighters? Its all feather-fisted spoilers like not just a few most, if not all. I'm not trying to bash American boxing, as a fan I am concerned. How do you go from Mike Tyson, Hagler, Holyfield, Bowe & all these beasts to whatever the hell you're producing right now? All of them fight like they're in survival mode. You've got Ward at LHW that is about it apart from what are a few prospects around light middle. Crawford, Thurman are knocking on the door we'll see in their next fights. Is it todays trainers in America? I know people will get butthurt over me pointing it out but surely they must see where I am coming from and be concerned because its terrible for the sport. I think it might come down to finances as well. Paying certain fighters excessively and others not enough. Never happen but I'd love to see a system in place also in other sports where your pay varies depending on your performances. I don't want to begrudge anybody of a payday but when you've got a great opportunity to raise your stock, you're getting paid well to fight well a nobody you probably should go out and look to make a statement or at least try. About 5 years back America had the #1 in majority of the 17 divisions. They now have 0. Bradley, Mayweather, Dawson, Steve Cunningham, Ward, Ortiz was there briefly, I think Rios was elevated when JMM moved up I really do hope the '08 olympians are for real and are about to flood the world scene. Lightweight: Robert Easter, Devonta Davis Jr Welterweight: Adrien Broner, Amir Imam, Terrence Crawford Welterweight: Errol Spence, Keith Thurman, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia Jr Middleweight: Demetrius Andrade, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo Super Middleweight: Badou Jack Light Heavyweight: Andre Ward Heavyweight: Deontay Wilder So no, American boxing is not going anywhere. You're totally wrong, America, despite basketball, american football, track and field, and baseball draining America's boxing reserves, still has a lot of talent in boxing, more than anyone else out there. However, you did raise a good point about the coaches and how soft the guys of this generation are becoming. I look at someone like Spence for example, people around him and all over actually saying that he isn't ready yet to fight against a top opponent and I'm like WTF? How the F can an unbeaten 26 year old with 20 pro fight, who just steam rolled through a a former world champ who has never been stopped before, not be ready for a big/title fight? You look at the greats of the past, Ali was 22 when he won his first world title, Mayweather was 21 and 17 fights into his pro career, Tyson was 21, etc etc, but nowadays we have a super talented guy like Spence, with a rich Amateur background, and 20 fights in, unbeaten, and steam rolling world class opposition in his come out party, and people out here claiming he aint ready for a title fight? This is the kind of **** that is destroying the talent in America, guys being babied and protected way too much. Crawford is freakin 28 but you would think he was a 20 year old prospect or something the way people talk about him being 'ready' or not 'ready' for certain fighters. The talent is there but it is being seriously mishandled.

I'm serious when I say that Floyd has messed up American boxing. Let's look at his career in a synopsis: "I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment." "I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business." When you look at his view point, from a fighters perspective, he's correct. But from a fans perspective, he's bad for business in the long run because just like everyone can't be Jordan in the NBA, everyone can't be Mayweather in boxing. Imagine if Ali never fought Foreman because "it's nothing cool about taking punishment" or "Foreman isn't a PPV star. Until he becomes a ppv star, we can't fight". Imagine if Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, DLH, etc all used this logic in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Before Mayweather showed up, I remember boxing being passed from generation to generation, superstar to superstar. Whether it was Ray Robinson passing the torch to Ali and Ali passing the torch to Tyson and SRL. Or SRL/Tyson passing the torch to DLH and Roy Jones Jr, so on and so forth. You never had as many issues with big fights not happening because of the political concerns of boxing. Don't get me wrong, it happened, but not to the extent it's happened since Mayweather has been at the helm. What's happening now is just like the torch was passed to FMJ, now FMJ has created a new ideology that previous superstars didn't receive or pass from previous and future generations. That new ideology is: "I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment." "I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business." And in my opinion it's ruining the sport. Again, I have these conversations with casuals on a daily basis. They refuse to reengage with boxing. Their reasoning has something to do with Mayweather, whether it's Mayweather vs DLH/Pac or some other issue. I'm left trying to tell them about guys like GGG, Ward, Canelo, Spence, Crawford, etc, but they don't want to hear it. I only have a select few of fighters that are old school in mentality. And I really can't use GGG and Canelo as examples because they are now suffering from the same Mayweather business plan mentality that I'm talking about. From a fighter perspective, they are old school in mentality. But they are Mayweather business contemporaries. Mayweather learned from the people that came before him. Roy Jones conducted business the same way. But what they all have in common, is that they beat top opposition to get to that stage. The difference is when Floyd was coming up, HBO had triple the budget to invest in him and get top fighters in the ring with him. With their budget woes, and less money floating around in general, there less incentive for fighters to take on tough fights.

Idk how to dick measure poor between countries, but I imagine its all relative & I can't imagine many poor people in the US give a f#ck or would have any idea that being poor in the UK would be worth ~15% or whatever more free **** than they get now. And I'm not saying there aren't more contributing factors involved either. I think the UK has a solid amateur base & boxing gyms which is key to bringing guys along. Thats not the case in the US in most regions. In my area specifically, upstate NY, there are more MMA gyms than boxing gyms by at least 3x & maybe 4x. In fact many boxers train at MMA gyms. And I mean its a lil silly to act like one thing & one thing only has contributed to anything so broad as the decline (not death lol) of boxing in the US. yeah i just think infrastructure and promotion are the bigger factors i don't think american promoters are doing a good job selling their product any more, and the sport is overburdened with parasites. i really think it needs a total reset. boxing is deeply ingrained in popular culture and i think has an inherent appeal as a sport, so it will never die, but a destroy and rebuild is necessary and probably inevitable

As I said in another thread, boxing is cyclical and the U.S. is currently in a downturn as we transition from the Floyd/Pacquiao era to whatever the next era is going to be. British boxing is hot at the moment. For a while they'll probably play a big role in keeping the sport going by forking over loads of money to get foreigners over there to fight their champions. And more power to them. But I don't expect that to last forever.

I think its less to do with other sports than just the reality thats its not quite as ****ty in the US as it used to be. Generally the best fighters come from ****ty areas/backgrounds. I mean this is why Chavez Jr has Chavez Sr's genes but he ain't **** compared to his dad for anecdotal evidence. For the most part there are very few people REALLY bad off in the US. And the cats who are breed for warfare tend to get put in the system now more than ever. So the great US fighters that should be around right now were happily going to grocery stores with their mom with a SNAP card & government money & with some hope of better things & grew up soft or fine with the status quo or they are serving 20 years in a state facility not playing for the Giants. More or less thats what I think is what is behind the current less than impressive overall group of US boxers vs what we've seen in the past. I will say that there is some catching up that other countries have done to so its not like thats the only issue. Competition coming into the pro boxing pool will obviously make getting anywhere harder. And if any sport is taking boxers its probably MMA not the NFL or NBA. Maybe like 95% of US white guys who can fight are doing MMA these days over boxing. There are more & more US black & hispanic dudes getting into MMA every time I'm looking up prospects. And boxing & MMA have got similar weight brackets so they are more likely to be competing for the same pool of smaller athletes that don't have as many pro sport options to dream of or consider as the bigger guys do when they are kids & many people coming up see MMA more like "real fighting" thus the appeal for guys coming up is sexier than it is for boxing nowadays. Has nothing to do with background. Athletes in general grow up piss poor, that's why they become athletes because that's the only way for them to make money. Besides I'm not sure what youre talking about when you say it's not as ****ty in the US as it used to be. It's worse than it used to be. And how do you explain boxing not having changed at all (for the worse, it might actually have improved) in the UK or Germany? They're way better off than we are. It's not about the background. You have to have the drive to be great and you have to be gifted/talented. Size also helps. But the people don't get into boxing, that's the problem. You're implying that people still do boxing, they don't. Nobody is boxing. Nobody is watching boxing. Of course it's dying. Whether or not people make money or not, their background, none of that matters. They'd still do football first, basketball, maybe MMA. Just because somebody is broke doesn't mean he's gonna get into boxing. Secondly no, I'm talking about the heavyweights. Of course those guys are going into football and basketball, of course they're missing in boxing. Do you honestly think that somebody who is 7 feet tall, ubergifted and whanot, he's gonna take up boxing? Please. Of course he's gonna play basketball. What about smaller guys, like Mike Tyson? They go into football or wrestling because that's the **** they offer to you in school, it's convenient. They force you to do that ****, you don't just show up there whenever you feel like it. In order to get into boxing you either have to have a dad push you that way or you're one of those rare people that actually figured it out on your own.

Don't get me wrong they have a long history of amazing fighters but what has happened? Seriously. Come on America sort it out! I put Shobox on last night. I've not seen a boring fight in that Cruiserweight division for the last 5 years. You could put my nan in with Usyk and it'd somehow be a good value scrap. 4 undefeated Cruiserweight contenders I was hyped to see who was going to go to to the next level and all I seen was headbutts & clinching. Literally more headbutts being thrown & clinches than punches. Pathetic. Then it got me thinking of all their current fighters. Andre Ward bores me to tears at times but I can appreciate his skills. Apart from Ward what good fighters does America have right now or even exciting fighters? Its all feather-fisted spoilers like not just a few most, if not all. I'm not trying to bash American boxing, as a fan I am concerned. How do you go from Mike Tyson, Hagler, Holyfield, Bowe & all these beasts to whatever the hell you're producing right now? All of them fight like they're in survival mode. You've got Ward at LHW that is about it apart from what are a few prospects around light middle. Crawford, Thurman are knocking on the door we'll see in their next fights. Is it todays trainers in America? I know people will get butthurt over me pointing it out but surely they must see where I am coming from and be concerned because its terrible for the sport. I think it might come down to finances as well. Paying certain fighters excessively and others not enough. Never happen but I'd love to see a system in place also in other sports where your pay varies depending on your performances. I don't want to begrudge anybody of a payday but when you've got a great opportunity to raise your stock, you're getting paid well to fight well a nobody you probably should go out and look to make a statement or at least try. About 5 years back America had the #1 in majority of the 17 divisions. They now have 0. Bradley, Mayweather, Dawson, Steve Cunningham, Ward, Ortiz was there briefly, I think Rios was elevated when JMM moved up I really do hope the '08 olympians are for real and are about to flood the world scene. It starts with the amateur system. The last gold medalist was Ward in 2004. It's no coincidence he's the last special fighter that's come from here. US greats of the past were great amateurs: Ali Frazier Foreman Leonard Holyfield Whitaker Jones Jr. Mayweather De La Hoya Ward All Olympic medalists. Ali, Leonard, Whitaker, Jones and Mayweather were each long reigning top p4p fighters and had stellar amateur careers. It just goes to show you, most ATGs that came from the USA were the product of a strong farm system. We've lost that and it's apparent when you look at the current landscape.

I think its less to do with other sports than just the reality thats its not quite as ****ty in the US as it used to be. Generally the best fighters come from ****ty areas/backgrounds. I mean this is why Chavez Jr has Chavez Sr's genes but he ain't **** compared to his dad for anecdotal evidence. For the most part there are very few people REALLY bad off in the US. And the cats who are breed for warfare tend to get put in the system now more than ever. So the great US fighters that should be around right now were happily going to grocery stores with their mom with a SNAP card & government money & with some hope of better things & grew up soft or fine with the status quo or they are serving 20 years in a state facility not playing for the Giants. More or less thats what I think is what is behind the current less than impressive overall group of US boxers vs what we've seen in the past. poor people in the UK have it much better than poor people in the USA, yet our boxing scene is currently the best it's ever been and getting better. in fact we're currently #1 going by number of world titles possessed

Just checked he has fought twice since he beat Vanes in 2013. He does however have a fight lined up next month vs Willie Nelson who I really don't rate but is coming off a good upset win. Lets hope it don't fall through. About time the Charlo's, Lara, Andrade, J Rock Williams and so on started fighting each other. A good 5-6 clearly well ahead of the rest but the only one who seems to get in there with the rest is Vanes

Ward, Crawford, Wilder, Spence, and Andrade are my favorite active fighters. I do really like that Boo Boo Andrade from what I have seen I must say he just never seems to fight. I feel he could be the best at 154. Not sure if he has promotional issues or what but he fights once a year tops.