Is Sugar Ray Leonard overrated?

its really pathetic that it could even even come down to that. I mean even Rigondeaux has more meaningful wins than Floyd does. Duran vs Leonard I was probably the two most skilled fighters every to share a ring on the same night in the same place in all of boxing history. Leonard came up short, just barely. But he changed and won the 2nd fight easily. Leonard beat an unbeatable beast in hearns, who through his whole career was never outboxed by anyone, thats how skilled a technician he was. Beat Wilfred Bintez, one of the most elusive Virtuoso boxing prodigies of all time. okay man have a blessed weekend

good to know your opinion, understood! my point was just that people tend to overrate ray Leonard more when Floyds name comes up, I see it all the time, "Floyd couldn't hold rays jock strap" or he's nowhere near his level of talent, your argument is a different one, it deals with resumes. its really pathetic that it could even even come down to that. I mean even Rigondeaux has more meaningful wins than Floyd does. Duran vs Leonard I was probably the two most skilled fighters every to share a ring on the same night in the same place in all of boxing history. Leonard came up short, just barely. But he changed and won the 2nd fight easily. Leonard beat an unbeatable beast in hearns, who through his whole career was never outboxed by anyone, thats how skilled a technician he was. Beat Wilfred Bintez, one of the most elusive Virtuoso boxing prodigies of all time.

As does every fighter... That's the fight game and what makes it appealing. The idea of an underdog defeating a boxer that everyone glorify makes for historical fights. Unlike SRL, Floyd faces back to back young bigazz guys who outweigh him by 15lbs! Floyd comes off layoffs and dominates young giants, when he is basically a shell of himself! Every Floyd fight, he has the deck stacked against him! Size, weight, age, or coming off of a long period of inactivity! SRL has great legends on his resume, but he has power to hurt his guys! Floyd dominates people he shouldnt even beat, on pure skill! And due to the circumstances of his victories, I always thought his resume was waaay tougher! I have him as GOAT for how sharp he was, and against whoam! When Floyd was young, everyone said he was the next SRL, So they projected everything he did, onto Floyd! Its like Floyd had to pay, for all the ducking and dodging SRL used to do! Floyd dont care if you old, young, big, small, he is going to humiliate your azz!!

Larry uses Hitler as his avi and now MurkaMan posts this. Hello, Elroy. So this week..Duran is overrated, Sugar Ray is overrated, Sweet Pea is overrated. And Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford and Loma are better than the 'Fab four'. You have just got to love NBS sometimes :lol1: Ten times better! Their was NO SUCH thing as fighters like Ward, Floyd, Rigo, and Crawford in that era! Stop the silliness bro! Im not Elroy! I agree with everything he says for the most part, but his direct reasons are a little bit different from mine! Im not one who lies about the throwback being magically better than they actually are! If Floyd and Pac fought in their eras, those fighters would be completely shocked by their skillset! The better these fighters evolve, the more we sweep current fighters under the rug in hopes of hyping up the throwback fighters, and those fighters are simply not as good as Floyd and Pac, period! Everyone knows Roy Jones doesnt have reflexes even CLOSE to Floyd's! Floyd fights like a cartoon character! Roy simply has fast hands, a great pull counter(which compliments his reflexes), and a great check hook! The more Floyd seperated himself from Roy, people just woke up one day and began to lie as if Roy was moving like Floyd. Floyd is basically shapeless, the way he liquifies himself between punches! Pernell has about five or six fights in his entire resume in which he looks almost as sharp as Floyd! He used to get hit all the time, and win in sloppy ways! But a few yrs ago, you all woke up and started pretending that he was on Floyd's level! Floyd faced 49 different opponents, over the course of 19yrs, and completely changed his fighting style for each opponent, and dominated them without being touched! Floyd's simply better than them all, by landslide, even Pac is!

I'm a Sugar Ray fan, but best possible competition? Nope. Avoided several fighters including Aaron Pryor, and fought several others with advantages, and waited Hagler out until he was past his peak. Great fighter, all time top 10, but like every other fighter out there, there were guys he didn't fight for one reason or another, and he made sure he fought guys at the right time or had other advantages. They offered Aaron a nice amount of money to fight, he didn't take it. Can't duck a dude who isn't even campaigning in your weight class, man. Pryor lucky they even offered him a deal in the first place.

So this week..Duran is overrated, Sugar Ray is overrated, Sweet Pea is overrated. And Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford and Loma are better than the 'Fab four'. You have just got to love NBS sometimes :lol1:

I'm a Sugar Ray fan, but best possible competition? Nope. Avoided several fighters including Aaron Pryor, and fought several others with advantages, and waited Hagler out until he was past his peak. Great fighter, all time top 10, but like every other fighter out there, there were guys he didn't fight for one reason or another, and he made sure he fought guys at the right time or had other advantages. As does every fighter... That's the fight game and what makes it appealing. The idea of an underdog defeating a boxer that everyone glorify makes for historical fights.

What I'm thinking... The end of a mans career can't completely define his legacy. Leonard was great to watch, and fought the best possible opposition which lead to some of the best fights of the 80's. Leonard although got what people may have seen as a gift against Hagler put on other great fights against Duran, Hearns, Mayweather, and Benitez. His speed was great, power was good, great footwork, great combinations and a good boxing IQ cemented by a great trainer in Dundee. Fighter of the year in 79 in which the man fought 8 times (8 f***ing times) and again in 81. Why argue his legacy? I'm a Sugar Ray fan, but best possible competition? Nope. Avoided several fighters including Aaron Pryor, and fought several others with advantages, and waited Hagler out until he was past his peak. Great fighter, all time top 10, but like every other fighter out there, there were guys he didn't fight for one reason or another, and he made sure he fought guys at the right time or had other advantages.

Ward and Rigo are TEN TIMES the fighter than Pernell is dude Lol! Pernell is a flashy, bob n weave, showboat for the audience, defensive wizard! Defensive wizards are so overrated, and always gets their azzes whipped trying to look cute. Floyd aint no defensive wizard imo! He is a fullblown tactician that stands in front of you without getting grazed! Changes his entire fighting style for 49 different opponents, and dominates them all easily, even when they were half his age and 15lbs heavier! We have to remember Pernell is so overrated, he has about 5 fights in his entire career where he looked ALMOST as sharp as Floyd! Pernell is FAR from a Ward, Rigo, Crawford! Ward is a slower, less athletic version of Mayweather imo! This era is so much better than the 80s! Its just that the fab four were all in weight classes where they could go up and down and fight eachother! NONE of the fab four are as good as Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford, or even Loma, its just that the fighters in THIS weight class are in WAAAY different weight classes! So you wont see Crawford fighting Ward and Rigo! I think this era is the first era in boxing where you got SEVERAL perfect tacticians! Intelligent fighters who cant be touched! I think Floyd was the introduction to this new breed of perfect fighters like Ward, Rigo, Crawford! They are his bastard children! In fact, imagine Rigo fighting in the 80s, they would be SHOCKED that he even exists! They arent used to tactical fighters who are almost ghostly when you try to touch them! Rigo aint no damnn Benitez, that would be insulting! But we werent shocked when we saw Rigo, because Floyd has been around showing our era what boxing could be! Even a guy like Lara, who is trash in our era, would be very effective in the 80s! I could imagine All of the fab four complaining about him running and mad because they have problems trying to touch him! And to me, Lara is just a very effective bum imo! Hello, Elroy.

Ward and Rigo are TEN TIMES the fighter than Pernell is dude Lol! Pernell is a flashy, bob n weave, showboat for the audience, defensive wizard! Defensive wizards are so overrated, and always gets their azzes whipped trying to look cute. Floyd aint no defensive wizard imo! He is a fullblown tactician that stands in front of you without getting grazed! Changes his entire fighting style for 49 different opponents, and dominates them all easily, even when they were half his age and 15lbs heavier! We have to remember Pernell is so overrated, he has about 5 fights in his entire career where he looked ALMOST as sharp as Floyd! Pernell is FAR from a Ward, Rigo, Crawford! Ward is a slower, less athletic version of Mayweather imo! This era is so much better than the 80s! Its just that the fab four were all in weight classes where they could go up and down and fight eachother! NONE of the fab four are as good as Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford, or even Loma, its just that the fighters in THIS weight class are in WAAAY different weight classes! So you wont see Crawford fighting Ward and Rigo! I think this era is the first era in boxing where you got SEVERAL perfect tacticians! Intelligent fighters who cant be touched! I think Floyd was the introduction to this new breed of perfect fighters like Ward, Rigo, Crawford! They are his bastard children! In fact, imagine Rigo fighting in the 80s, they would be SHOCKED that he even exists! They arent used to tactical fighters who are almost ghostly when you try to touch them! Rigo aint no damnn Benitez, that would be insulting! But we werent shocked when we saw Rigo, because Floyd has been around showing our era what boxing could be! Even a guy like Lara, who is trash in our era, would be very effective in the 80s! I could imagine All of the fab four complaining about him running and mad because they have problems trying to touch him! And to me, Lara is just a very effective bum imo! Larry uses Hitler as his avi and now MurkaMan posts this.

But your right,,, he does body floyd.... Floyd is a great fighter, but he would never be welter champ with guys like leonard, benetiz, duran, hearns, curry in the division Of course I know i'm right, I just want to see their reaction or reply but it seems Larry agree with me

Ward and Rigo are TEN TIMES the fighter than Pernell is dude Lol! Pernell is a flashy, bob n weave, showboat for the audience, defensive wizard! Defensive wizards are so overrated, and always gets their azzes whipped trying to look cute. Floyd aint no defensive wizard imo! He is a fullblown tactician that stands in front of you without getting grazed! Changes his entire fighting style for 49 different opponents, and dominates them all easily, even when they were half his age and 15lbs heavier! We have to remember Pernell is so overrated, he has about 5 fights in his entire career where he looked ALMOST as sharp as Floyd! Pernell is FAR from a Ward, Rigo, Crawford! Ward is a slower, less athletic version of Mayweather imo! This era is so much better than the 80s! Its just that the fab four were all in weight classes where they could go up and down and fight eachother! NONE of the fab four are as good as Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford, or even Loma, its just that the fighters in THIS weight class are in WAAAY different weight classes! So you wont see Crawford fighting Ward and Rigo! I think this era is the first era in boxing where you got SEVERAL perfect tacticians! Intelligent fighters who cant be touched! I think Floyd was the introduction to this new breed of perfect fighters like Ward, Rigo, Crawford! They are his bastard children! In fact, imagine Rigo fighting in the 80s, they would be SHOCKED that he even exists! They arent used to tactical fighters who are almost ghostly when you try to touch them! Rigo aint no damnn Benitez, that would be insulting! But we werent shocked when we saw Rigo, because Floyd has been around showing our era what boxing could be! Even a guy like Lara, who is trash in our era, would be very effective in the 80s! I could imagine All of the fab four complaining about him running and mad because they have problems trying to touch him! And to me, Lara is just a very effective bum imo! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, without a doubt. With the exception of Ward, Hopkins, Mayweather,L. Peterson, and Rigo, I honestly don't see fighters with a high boxing IQ and skill set. Cotto is highly skilled and I see that Canelo is really improving, but I don't see any Whitakers, McCallums, or Toneys in this era. Even an aggressive fighter like Chavez Sr was highly skilled. You don't see that style anymore. What heavyweights of today are skilled like Lewis, Bowe, Holmes, or Holyfield? You just don't see it. I don't blame the fighters of this era, I blame the trainers for not being teachers of the sweet science. Ward and Rigo are TEN TIMES the fighter than Pernell is dude Lol! Pernell is a flashy, bob n weave, showboat for the audience, defensive wizard! Defensive wizards are so overrated, and always gets their azzes whipped trying to look cute. Floyd aint no defensive wizard imo! He is a fullblown tactician that stands in front of you without getting grazed! Changes his entire fighting style for 49 different opponents, and dominates them all easily, even when they were half his age and 15lbs heavier! We have to remember Pernell is so overrated, he has about 5 fights in his entire career where he looked ALMOST as sharp as Floyd! Pernell is FAR from a Ward, Rigo, Crawford! Ward is a slower, less athletic version of Mayweather imo! This era is so much better than the 80s! Its just that the fab four were all in weight classes where they could go up and down and fight eachother! NONE of the fab four are as good as Ward, Floyd, Rigo, Crawford, or even Loma, its just that the fighters in THIS weight class are in WAAAY different weight classes! So you wont see Crawford fighting Ward and Rigo! I think this era is the first era in boxing where you got SEVERAL perfect tacticians! Intelligent fighters who cant be touched! I think Floyd was the introduction to this new breed of perfect fighters like Ward, Rigo, Crawford! They are his bastard children! In fact, imagine Rigo fighting in the 80s, they would be SHOCKED that he even exists! They arent used to tactical fighters who are almost ghostly when you try to touch them! Rigo aint no damnn Benitez, that would be insulting! But we werent shocked when we saw Rigo, because Floyd has been around showing our era what boxing could be! Even a guy like Lara, who is trash in our era, would be very effective in the 80s! I could imagine All of the fab four complaining about him running and mad because they have problems trying to touch him! And to me, Lara is just a very effective bum imo!

He is overrated but that doesn't mean he isn't great. He's just such a great public figure people forget he lost to a lightweight moving up two divisions. That lightweight was one of the 10 best fighters in boxing history and won a title at middleweight. I think it's an acceptable loss. I f*cking hate Leonard, but his career is the best example of how a modern fighter can make up the difference that old school greats have in number of fights as far as having a case for GOAT. Leonard might have had a legit case if not for the eye injury that cost him a few years. He is absolutely not overrated.

Lets put the love for our favorite fighters aside and go off of straight logic. Floyd vs Ray is just like comparing Ray vs Roy, its just not realistic. As much as I love Ray as a fighter and with all of his abilities and resume, he simply would be too small for the naturally bigger and gifted Roy Jones. Now that holds for Floyd as well. Yes, he is one of the best skilled technicians to ever do it, but he is naturally the smaller fighter and was actually not as good at 147. The version of Floyd that would have given Ray problems was at 130 and 135. That was when he put it all together defensively as well as offensively. That's when he threw way more punches and many in combinations. At 147, he was defensive minded and a pot shotter. That honestly can't be disputed by the most die hard Mayweather fan. Now you are talking about a natural lightweight with brittle hands all his career fighting a big welterweight who walked down a brutal knockout artist in Hearns. So...if Hearns and a i54lber like Kalule couldn't keep that pitbull off of them, you mean to tell me a defense first, brittle handed, blown up welterweight could??? Its just not logical. What punch would be effective for Floyd? The check hook??? The jab to the stomach??? The straight right??? Ray walked through monster punchers like Duran, Hagler, and Hearns but would get slowed down by Floyd??? It just doesn't make sense. And...I think we get caught up in the hype. Defense wins championships in team sports, not boxing. What you witnessed with Floyd is a great throwback technical fighter competing in an era where the fundamental skills were absent. That is why Floyd, Hopkins, Toney, and Roy are still fighting. This generation is full of talent and ability,but lack the skill set to retire these older fighters in the ring. Ray was battered by Norris because Terry was an old school fighter. Ali was battered by Holmes because Larry came from the old school of boxing and mastered the basic fundamentals of the sweet science. That threat was never there for Floyd and he made that clear every time he made the statement that he was ROBBING THE BANK. He meant that he was making record setting amounts of money by beating marketable names with less skill set. Floyd is a throwback and that is why he is so great in this era. Put him in Leonard's era and he would need more than just skills to beat the greats of that generation. "Skills pay the bills" in this current era. In those days, that just was not the case. If Ray couldn't outbox you, then he would man up and out fight you. That just was a different era of boxing compared to today. So yes, in a 15 round fight at 147, I truly do think Ray stops Floyd, especially if it was on the big stage where both were elite fighters fighting to prove who was the best. Now...if they both were just up and coming and not yet elite a 12 round fight, and the stakes weren't as high, I see it going the distance, but still Ray winning. At 147, Floyd would have absolutely no advantages over Ray. And personality wise, Floyd has the mentality to hit and not get hit, while Ray would take the necessary risks to get to him. Floyd Mayweather is a future hall of famer and an all time great fighter. But its still not realistic to put him in the ring with Sugar Ray Leonard and think he would be successful. There is absolutely no one on his resume to prove otherwise. Put Floyd in the ring with Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benetiz, Kalule, and even Bonds and there are many question marks. I don't see him winning the majority of those fights. Put Ray in the ring with every fighter that Floyd has fought, and in all honesty, what do you think the results would be??? I can't think of even one of his opponents that would hear the final bell. ..that's a very good breakdown fella......were talking about Floyd losing every physical advantage if he set foot in the ring with Leonard.....they go on about floyds may weathers IQ but that only works if your pretty matched in most departments ......and Leonard's IQ was just as equal...Jesus he broke Durans Heart in the 2nd fight, he became the puncher against hearns, he out boxed el radar Benitez and he made hagler try to box with him hagler went orthodox even though southpaw was his best chance.....Leonard was a beast compared with mayweather ...respect

becauses wins over Benitez, Duran, Hagler and Hearns make your overrated... Okay. :lol1::lol1: Exactly

Leonard bodies Mayweather *grabs popcorn* But your right,,, he does body floyd.... Floyd is a great fighter, but he would never be welter champ with guys like leonard, benetiz, duran, hearns, curry in the division

Leonard bodies Mayweather *grabs popcorn*

Would you say skills have decreased in the modern era? Yes, without a doubt. With the exception of Ward, Hopkins, Mayweather,L. Peterson, and Rigo, I honestly don't see fighters with a high boxing IQ and skill set. Cotto is highly skilled and I see that Canelo is really improving, but I don't see any Whitakers, McCallums, or Toneys in this era. Even an aggressive fighter like Chavez Sr was highly skilled. You don't see that style anymore. What heavyweights of today are skilled like Lewis, Bowe, Holmes, or Holyfield? You just don't see it. I don't blame the fighters of this era, I blame the trainers for not being teachers of the sweet science.

Floyd's shoulder roll isn't his only attribute. running and hugging are the rest.