Prime James Toney vs GGG?

These Threads are a bit premature GGG has yet to really step in class . He hasn't had the opposition m8.No matter what he achieves in his career he's yet to have that "name" to add to his greatness. Toney just beats him bad,real bad.Toney had legitimate competition.He beat a ton of great fighters.I'm mashed and this my make no sense.But i know what i mean. Both fighters are great,but Toney murks Golovkin.

These Threads are a bit premature GGG has yet to really step in class .

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The only problem I see with this is that GGG doesn't outwork fighters. He outfights them and basically overpowers them. He's not a Margarito 80-100 punches a round guy. You remember his fight with Ouma? Ouma was a classic 'outwork you' kind of guy and he did it very well against GGG until the size and power difference got too much. GGG doesn't throw that much. He's very methodical, so it comes across like he does, but it's more just because he's working away slowly but surely. That isn't the type of guy that would outwork Toney. GGG throws an average of about 60-65 punches per round, many of them power punches. Inside, it's all Toneys game. He was faster, much harder to hit inside, and his shots were shorter and more compact inside and he worked up and down. GGG needs to be set to punch and he likes the know he's going to land, so inside he'd find it difficult not just to land but just to get off first and when he did, he'd be countered. I'm not saying he wouldn't land, he would. Hes a good fighter, he just wouldn't land close to the amount he's used to landing and he wouldn't be landing his usual clean, big power swings. THose wide, sweeping hooks that he favours, very few of those would land at all. Toney, on the other hand, would land a lot. He's the only fighter to ever land over 400 punches on numerous occasions. In his big fights, particularly when he had someone in front of him fighting, he threw and landed like an offensive machine and GGG would be in front of him the whole fight. The fights he landed most in, were against GGGish type styles. He's open to counters, because he waits after he throws to see what's happening. He'll throw then leaves himself open. Against the guys he's fighting he gets away with it, because they are often retreating and getting hit with his combos. Toney has things that GGG has never seen and I can't see him dealing with very well, due to his style of fighting. GGG has nothing Toney hasn't seen, and the style of GGG suits Toney down to the ground. A come forward, methodical, textbook power puncher that wasn't particularly fast of hand or foot. Toney had a few issues with certain styles over the years, but this was the stuff he feasted on. This was his game. Agree with this. From what I've seen of GGG he's economical with his punches and as you say, he does only let shots go when he knows they're going to land. Standing an posing infront of James Toney isn't an effective strategy. Counter punchers like time to think to set traps, and GGG would be there for the receipt every time. You would have to hope GGG could hit Toney had enough to put him on the defensive an hope he would go into a defensive shell. Toney had a granite chin though, and he's a hard man he knows how to dog it out when needed, Jirov.

Toney would light up ggg with counters and stop him late.. Toney is all wrong for ggg

Instinctively you would say Toney in a dominant performance. But Toney's inconsistency gets overlooked a lot of the time. He could be unbelievable but he could also be very flat and struggle to get anything going. Would still say Toney but it's not inconceivable that GGG makes it interesting. Toney was more hittable than people seem to remember. He just had a granite chin. This Toney got outworked a few times in his career in lacklustre performances. Even in fights he won he came from behind with late KO. This is the only reason id give Calzaghe a prayer at beating Toney. Toney did lose to Drake Thadzi and got a gift against Dave Tiberi

I like both fighters but a Gennady win isn't that far out of question, he probably drops Toney a couple times which might bring him up on points. He's not knocking Toney out though. I think I'll say Gennady by close/controversial/flooding NSB decision.

Prime Toney UD's Golovkin.

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The only problem I see with this is that GGG doesn't outwork fighters. He outfights them and basically overpowers them. He's not a Margarito 80-100 punches a round guy. You remember his fight with Ouma? Ouma was a classic 'outwork you' kind of guy and he did it very well against GGG until the size and power difference got too much. GGG doesn't throw that much. He's very methodical, so it comes across like he does, but it's more just because he's working away slowly but surely. That isn't the type of guy that would outwork Toney. GGG throws an average of about 60-65 punches per round, many of them power punches. Inside, it's all Toneys game. He was faster, much harder to hit inside, and his shots were shorter and more compact inside and he worked up and down. GGG needs to be set to punch and he likes the know he's going to land, so inside he'd find it difficult not just to land but just to get off first and when he did, he'd be countered. I'm not saying he wouldn't land, he would. Hes a good fighter, he just wouldn't land close to the amount he's used to landing and he wouldn't be landing his usual clean, big power swings. THose wide, sweeping hooks that he favours, very few of those would land at all. Toney, on the other hand, would land a lot. He's the only fighter to ever land over 400 punches on numerous occasions. In his big fights, particularly when he had someone in front of him fighting, he threw and landed like an offensive machine and GGG would be in front of him the whole fight. The fights he landed most in, were against GGGish type styles. He's open to counters, because he waits after he throws to see what's happening. He'll throw then leaves himself open. Against the guys he's fighting he gets away with it, because they are often retreating and getting hit with his combos. Toney has things that GGG has never seen and I can't see him dealing with very well, due to his style of fighting. GGG has nothing Toney hasn't seen, and the style of GGG suits Toney down to the ground. A come forward, methodical, textbook power puncher that wasn't particularly fast of hand or foot. Toney had a few issues with certain styles over the years, but this was the stuff he feasted on. This was his game. It's true Golovkin isn't as busy as Margs. In the early rounds I don't think the work rate will be too much of a difference, instead Golovkin's underrated JAB would give Toney problems but by about round 5 when both guys have landed some good shots Toney will be the one worse for wear and breathing heavily. Then by 7,8,9 the work rate really starts to play a factor as Toney's output drops off and Golovkin is encouraged by this to go for the kill, no doubt Golovkin has killer instinct and when he sees Toney is gassed out he would step up a few gears, yes he is methodical at times but once he smells blood then that's when he starts to throw more. Durable Toney is much more likely to be stopped on his feet than KTFO. Going the distance isn't out of the question but fatigue is my reason to believe it's a stoppage. Tibeiri wasn't elite and had the ideal style for Toney to feast on but he wound up going life and death, winning a fortunate decision. Again it's the inconsistency with fights like this which is why i'm not confident to pick Toney. Someone who could smother Golovkins offence like Ward is the one who would most likely defeat him. I don't see Toney at 160 as the guy who could neutralise Golovkin's offensive arsenal.

I never said he had a glass stomach Their are plenty of fighters who take body shots very well actually... I just don't believe ggg is one of them. Its interesting that you say I'm exaggerating... I could just as easily say you are trying to downplay a weakness in a fighter you like I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as this is one of those things where only time will tell... Just out of interest why would you watch the Murray/Monroe fights plenty of times??? It's not downplaying so much as it's bringing it back to normal because it's been heightened based off of what I believe erroneous observation. But fair enough. Agree to disagree. I guess I should clarify I haven't seen the whole fights plenty of times. There are parts I like to watch (as with other fights and fighters), where I like to see little things he's done and notice what he does in order to get the desired affect. He's far more technical than some of his detractors are led to believe. And I enjoy the parts where he displays them.

Based of the Murray and Monroe fights... Did you not watch those fights?? Both those guys are feather fisted yet ANY time they hit him in the body it had a visible effect on him. At times it even stopped him in his tracks and momentarily stopped his pressure But I don't think there is a single middleweight around right now that could sustain a decent body attack on GGG without eatin serious firepower in return. I believe a big part of the gameplan for team Lemieux will be using that fast/hard left hook of his to the body a lot early. I've seen those fights plenty of times. If that's indicative of him not taking body shots well, then no one in the sport does if you're going to exaggerate that much of the affect they had on him.

Well yeah obviously I said 'man GGG will crush that obese bum Toney' then that's different. I don't think I said anything disrespectful to get that flaming reply but it's all good. It's not just a right hand that Golovkin would rely on. He's got many punches in his arsenal and I think a lot of this fight will be fought mid range and on the inside. IF Toney hypothetically didn't struggle making 160 then I would say it favours him but as I said earlier I only go by what happened in reality, no hypothetical credit. When watching young Toney at 160 I can't help but see a very talented fighter who couldn't fight to the best of his abilities due to weight struggles. Toney is highly susceptible to being outworked in my opinion, I'm sure he would land some good shots but they would be too far and between in terms of winning the fight, I can see him winning 3 solid rounds. I think people would be surprised at how frequently Golovkin landed on Toney. Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The only problem I see with this is that GGG doesn't outwork fighters. He outfights them and basically overpowers them. He's not a Margarito 80-100 punches a round guy. You remember his fight with Ouma? Ouma was a classic 'outwork you' kind of guy and he did it very well against GGG until the size and power difference got too much. GGG doesn't throw that much. He's very methodical, so it comes across like he does, but it's more just because he's working away slowly but surely. That isn't the type of guy that would outwork Toney. GGG throws an average of about 60-65 punches per round, many of them power punches. Inside, it's all Toneys game. He was faster, much harder to hit inside, and his shots were shorter and more compact inside and he worked up and down. GGG needs to be set to punch and he likes the know he's going to land, so inside he'd find it difficult not just to land but just to get off first and when he did, he'd be countered. I'm not saying he wouldn't land, he would. Hes a good fighter, he just wouldn't land close to the amount he's used to landing and he wouldn't be landing his usual clean, big power swings. THose wide, sweeping hooks that he favours, very few of those would land at all. Toney, on the other hand, would land a lot. He's the only fighter to ever land over 400 punches on numerous occasions. In his big fights, particularly when he had someone in front of him fighting, he threw and landed like an offensive machine and GGG would be in front of him the whole fight. The fights he landed most in, were against GGGish type styles. He's open to counters, because he waits after he throws to see what's happening. He'll throw then leaves himself open. Against the guys he's fighting he gets away with it, because they are often retreating and getting hit with his combos. Toney has things that GGG has never seen and I can't see him dealing with very well, due to his style of fighting. GGG has nothing Toney hasn't seen, and the style of GGG suits Toney down to the ground. A come forward, methodical, textbook power puncher that wasn't particularly fast of hand or foot. Toney had a few issues with certain styles over the years, but this was the stuff he feasted on. This was his game.

:pat: Urgh, I don't get offended by your opinion, and maybe you've not noticed it, but that's a standard post. So take your 'chill out' **** somewhere else. This whole epidemic of 'hey buddy, chill out, it's just my opinion' is precisely why people shouldn't be led to feel entitled to speak on anything they want, thinking that their every opinion is valid simply because they can say it. While everyone might have one, unless you can validate your opinion with someone resembling a legitimate argument then it's just a **** thought. There is a difference between forming an opinion based on sound reason and talking **** based on literally nothing. But no, I didn't agree with the other guy either. It seems like you're taking into account everything that GGG does well, and just assuming it'll all work perfectly against Toney while ignoring everything Toney does and only focusing on his perceived weaknesses. You're saying that Toney gets stopped late by GGG, not just beaten (which I wouldn't have thought twice about), which would mean Toney getting beaten up over the course of the fight, then knocked out, which was never remotely close to ever happening in a 30 year, 80 fight HOF career spanning five divisions and essentially 100 pounds taking into account the weight of the heavies, and greater fighters than GGG. Or based on a what you've now come out and said, him getting dropped early by a very fast, awkward southpaw counter puncher Johnson on a Pac like left hand, a punch which GGG can't throw by a guy whose style couldn't be more polar opposite. This is the one which I assumed someone was going to bring up and go "GGG better than Johnson! Proof that GGG crushes Toney! Pwned!". Johnson might not have been better than GGG, but he was certainly faster, he was a southpaw and he had one hell of a punch. He was a counter puncher through and through and wasn't a finisher though. But, if anything, that knockdown, the only one of Toney's career, early on basically a flash knockdown before he'd warmed up, would tend to go against a GGG stoppage even more. Not only could he not get hit like that by GGG, but he recovered straight away and never looked remotely close to being in trouble of losing the fight by KO. Against a much more methodical, predictable, textbook fighter with much cleaner, textbook, orthodox technique, Toney thrives. That's his bread and butter. GGG's equivalent, a straight right hand. How likely is it that you think GGG is going to land that punch on a prime Toney as cleanly and hard as a faster, southpaw is able to land his straight left? Well yeah obviously I said 'man GGG will crush that obese bum Toney' then that's different. I don't think I said anything disrespectful to get that flaming reply but it's all good. It's not just a right hand that Golovkin would rely on. He's got many punches in his arsenal and I think a lot of this fight will be fought mid range and on the inside. IF Toney hypothetically didn't struggle making 160 then I would say it favours him but as I said earlier I only go by what happened in reality, no hypothetical credit. When watching young Toney at 160 I can't help but see a very talented fighter who couldn't fight to the best of his abilities due to weight struggles. Toney is highly susceptible to being outworked in my opinion, I'm sure he would land some good shots but they would be too far and between in terms of winning the fight, I can see him winning 3 solid rounds. I think people would be surprised at how frequently Golovkin landed on Toney.

Toney by mid to late ko! GGG is far to simple and easy to hit, the dude can't really take bodyshots that well either. I don't think GGG would land too many clean punches on Toney and even if he did land his absolute best punch it would likely have zero effect on Toney. The only thing that could make this remotely interesting is Toney taking rounds out and the fact that GGG would definitely be pressuring those rounds. I would honestly expect this fight to look like the barkley fight, I think a guy like GGG is made for Toney, He would make Toney look fabulous Based off what?

Huge huge Toney fan but that fat tub of goo gets sparked against GGG. Do you "Huge GGG fans" who thinks GGG loses a wide UD against Toney agree? A prime Toney at 160-168 was far from a "Tub of Goo"

I'm astonished at the discussion has caused.Truly taken back.

F*ckin hell chill out :lol1: Of course i've watched his fights, I wouldn't have given my opinion knowing it would be unpopular unless I done the research and truly believed it. Yes Toney was never knocked out and i said that in my post anyway. He was dropped heavily by Reggie Johnson and let of the hook, winning a close fight. As for the sluggishness you can see that in plenty of his fights at 160 including the Reggie Johnson fight. I thought the first McCallum fight should have been a fight he won clearly if not for his sluggishness and lack of stamina, made it closer than it should've. McCallum was an excellent fighter but then.... Also in his against Tibieri his stamina was dreadful, literally tired after a couple rounds.... then the glove incident gives him MINUTES to get a second wind. Ladies and gentlmen this is a REAL ecample of a fighter being helped by the glove tear, it wasn't done on purpose but no doubt helped Toney get a breather. The Clay-Cooper gloves incident is a MYTH! and funny enough even after he had that long break he was tired again after 1 round. Went life and death and was fortunate to get the victory. Anyway it's just my opinion that Golovkin would beat Toney at 160, no need to get all offended because it's not what you want to hear.. Toney was unrealiable at the weight class and I simply wouldn't have confidence picking him against many elite 160 fighters and I consider Golovkin elite. :pat: Urgh, I don't get offended by your opinion, and maybe you've not noticed it, but that's a standard post. So take your 'chill out' **** somewhere else. This whole epidemic of 'hey buddy, chill out, it's just my opinion' is precisely why people shouldn't be led to feel entitled to speak on anything they want, thinking that their every opinion is valid simply because they can say it. While everyone might have one, unless you can validate your opinion with someone resembling a legitimate argument then it's just a **** thought. There is a difference between forming an opinion based on sound reason and talking **** based on literally nothing. But no, I didn't agree with the other guy either. It seems like you're taking into account everything that GGG does well, and just assuming it'll all work perfectly against Toney while ignoring everything Toney does and only focusing on his perceived weaknesses. You're saying that Toney gets stopped late by GGG, not just beaten (which I wouldn't have thought twice about), which would mean Toney getting beaten up over the course of the fight, then knocked out, which was never remotely close to ever happening in a 30 year, 80 fight HOF career spanning five divisions and essentially 100 pounds taking into account the weight of the heavies, and greater fighters than GGG. Or based on a what you've now come out and said, him getting dropped early by a very fast, awkward southpaw counter puncher Johnson on a Pac like left hand, a punch which GGG can't throw by a guy whose style couldn't be more polar opposite. This is the one which I assumed someone was going to bring up and go "GGG better than Johnson! Proof that GGG crushes Toney! Pwned!". Johnson might not have been better than GGG, but he was certainly faster, he was a southpaw and he had one hell of a punch. He was a counter puncher through and through and wasn't a finisher though. But, if anything, that knockdown, the only one of Toney's career, early on basically a flash knockdown before he'd warmed up, would tend to go against a GGG stoppage even more. Not only could he not get hit like that by GGG, but he recovered straight away and never looked remotely close to being in trouble of losing the fight by KO. Against a much more methodical, predictable, textbook fighter with much cleaner, textbook, orthodox technique, Toney thrives. That's his bread and butter. GGG's equivalent, a straight right hand. How likely is it that you think GGG is going to land that punch on a prime Toney as cleanly and hard as a faster, southpaw is able to land his straight left?

GGG, who hasn't fought any Elite Opposition; is gonna knock out a fighter who has never been Knocked Out? Okay.... Keep dreaming! :wave: If you prefer to base your opinion on cold facts, you have to wait until GGG career is over to have a voice here. Behold greatness while you can, fighters primes are short. I believe that during the course of his career GGG will destroy everyone at 154-168 and maybe at 175, if he moves up. As for knocking out fighters who were never knocked out, you should check GGG resume, because it is littered with such fighters.

Can't see how GGG can win this.

James Toney would cut him up. His punches as good at working their way through the gaps in an opponents stance and he is slippery enough to make Golovkin look like a lumbering oaf. I don't imagine the match up being close nor do I think Toney stopping him is outside of the question.

No, not James Toney, I think GGG would`ve knocked out prime Hopkins. With Toney I think it would go to the cards. As for comparing Jirov and GGG, I am actually Jirov fan. But Jirov`s own trainer said that Jirov was nothing special at the beginning, but made it that far, because of his great work ethic. Jirov really became somewhat known only after he won Olympic gold, which came as a surprise for many. GGG was special from very young days. Everybody who knew him thought that he was phenomenal even before GGG reached peaks of his amateur career. GGG, who hasn't fought any Elite Opposition; is gonna knock out a fighter who has never been Knocked Out? Okay.... Keep dreaming! :wave: