the man the myth the legend...Paul Williams at 147

Sorry if somebody already asked this, but what do you guys think about the Canelo - Williams bout that was supposed to happen before his accident? I love both fighters, but I have no idea who would have won this. Maybe I would have picked Williams though

I said race & nationality can play a part in fights being made or not made sometimes. I also said Williams wasn't gonna outwhite Ricky Hatton if he was born in Rhode Island & wore LL Bean 24/7 or even if he was Mexican. Hatton was the better fight at the time. Hatton was the more proven fighter at the time. Historical Hatton will be seen as a better fighter. Thats the reality. Who's really in denial here. Thing is those guys got the fight cuz there wasn't anyone around at the time who was the clear choice. So sure their nationality helped I'm sure cuz Mexicans watch boxing & buy PPV. I think Maidana is in the same boat, but he isn't Mexican so doesn't fit with your agenda. You'd be better served by bringing up Berto as an opponent as thats easily the most random opponent Mayweather has faced since becoming Mayweather & I'd even agree Paul Williams woulda made more sense back than then Berto does now, but again not Mexican either. Hatton was not a more proven welterweight than Paul Williams. Even if you thought he deserved the decision vs Collazo. And lol @ your Berto example. This is a throwaway fight. Quit beating around the bush. Guerrero and Ortiz nationality got them the fights. And Margarito is better than Broner but that win did nothing for Williams career while Maidana got to sit in Argentina, go fishing, get fat and enjoy life from beating Broner.

What a bunch of bull****. Where do you think Lewis and Bruno were from? Both absolutely huge fan bases. Huge. Anthony Joshua? Only 6 fights and already all over commercial TV with a huge following. Khan? Benn? Eubank? The only one of these guys that had a similar charisma as Hatton was Bruno (and Eubank though in a different way), and he was easily as big of a crossover star if not significantly bigger in his time. UK fans support their fighters. You basically helped support my statement.

I don't understand how he was a player at 147 til he beat Margarito. I remember HBO sucking his dick before that & hell I was a fan of him on the come up so I was big upping him myself, but he hadn't done much of anything at 147 is the reality. Then after Margarito, where he wins his first title & gets his first major W, he immediately loses. He avenges & moves up within months. Williams had very lil history at the 147 elite level. Even if you wanna pretend HBO anointing him before the Margarito fight you might be able to act like he was a player for a full year instead of half, but you are embellishing what being a player in the division is & acting like a guy being hyped by HBO without much of a resume yet is getting ducked before he's even in position to get ducked. If this is how you think you must think Spence is one marginal win away from getting ducked by all the 147 champions now cuz his position now is 1 or 2 fights from what Paul Williams position was pre-Margarito. Or maybe a better example would be everyone at 147 is dodging Sadam Ali since he's among the indie top ten for many, but hasn't really done anything yet so the fact he hasn't landed Mayweather, Brook, Bradley or Thurman is cuz "they ducking". Thing is, The Punisher came up on showtime. He was a showtime built fighter like most were in those days. HBO took on the established guy. Granting irrelevance to everything hbo in your post. Which is just about everything you posted. Errol spence is a prospect, the Punisher was a champion, the comparison, lol, is redundant. And the Punisher was always trying to fight at 147. He only fought at 154 and 160 to stay active. Like I said, if the other champions won't fight you, you still have to fight. He was a boxer by profession. Meaning he fought for money professionally. So naturally, if he couldn't get the other top welterweights to fight him, he had to fight someone. Those fights came at 154/160, not by his choice.

being top 10 doesn't make you automatic title shot. pwill wasn't in a spot to be ducked. if he was the #2 guy for a few years then yeah. but he wasnt. Obviously didn't read much... He was saying how the man was a top 10 before the win against Margarito. Which many put Williams after the win against Margarito a top 5 welterweight And often spoken about being ran from much of the division. And Williams was a top 5 in many eyes from 147-154.

Paul Williams was clearly a top 10 guy in the division in 2006 and then beat Margarito in 2007, at the end of which, Mayweather "retired". Margarito would then go on to beat Cotto, making Williams win look even better. Mayweather stayed out till 09, from 2007-09, Mayweather should have fought at least one of Cotto/Marg/Williams, instead he returned in 09 to fight JMM, claiming JMM called him out. There was no reason for that fight, considering by now Cotto, Margarito and Pwill had called him out for almost 2 years. You can like or dislike that but it's the facts. being top 10 doesn't make you automatic title shot. pwill wasn't in a spot to be ducked. if he was the #2 guy for a few years then yeah. but he wasnt.

nah talking to the dude you're replying to. nah floyd didn't. he retired after his 2007 hatton fight. pwill wasn't a top 147 guy til his 2007 marg win. Paul Williams was clearly a top 10 guy in the division in 2006 and then beat Margarito in 2007, at the end of which, Mayweather "retired". Margarito would then go on to beat Cotto, making Williams win look even better. Mayweather stayed out till 09, from 2007-09, Mayweather should have fought at least one of Cotto/Marg/Williams, instead he returned in 09 to fight JMM, claiming JMM called him out. There was no reason for that fight, considering by now Cotto, Margarito and Pwill had called him out for almost 2 years. You can like or dislike that but it's the facts.

This happens to everyone doe. Right now Thurman is ready & calling out for Mayweather. GGG been ready for & calling out Cotto & Sergio before that. For all the **** Mayweather gets he was calling out & ready to fight Gatti, Cotto, Mosley & Oscar years before he got those fights. Oscar was calling out & ready for Chavez & Trinidad before he got those fights. And Chavez was probably ready & calling out someone back in his day that didn't give him a fight for years, but thats before my time. Somehow though Paul Williams not getting a big fight @ 147 in the half a year he was really a notable & worthwhile guy to fight for the big names @ 147 is some huge duck or injustice. Lets be real. Seems like everything was before your time tbh. Half a year at 147? Uh huh....

ermmmm are you confused? You think I'm defending Floyd or something? And yes, Floyd did duck Pwill. nah talking to the dude you're replying to. nah floyd didn't. he retired after his 2007 hatton fight. pwill wasn't a top 147 guy til his 2007 marg win.

He was one of my favorite fighters. It was hysterical how much the Hispanic posters hated him. He beat Margarito and they know he would've kicked the crap out of Cotto. But his throwing 1000 punches per 12 round fight, lack of defense and weight jumping caught up with him quickly. Thankfully he was planning retirement before his accident and invested his money wisely. That's no given, and it's been so many years since I've thought about it. Williams performed great against Margarito but Cotto knows how to maneuver himself up close, he's harder to tie up and he'll get off when Williams tries to tie up. Good enough boxer as well to keep Williams turning.

wait all this is a floyd defense thread? lame. floyd retired in 2007. pwill didn't really jump up in the rankings til 2007 after marg win. there was ppl more deserving of a floyd fight at the time. like maybe cotto or marg. floyd didn't duck pwill. now stfu and quit bashing a crippled dude. ermmmm are you confused? You think I'm defending Floyd or something? And yes, Floyd did duck Pwill.

Paul Williams although far from the most gifted or most skilled... The man was undeniably ran from during his time at 147. Many believe he was one of the more avoided fighters at 160! Williams was a pleasure to watch and provided great fights although at times folded against the lesser opposition. Critizing a boxers first lose when that boxer avenged that Lose in quite dramatic fashion. The other lose was huge but more of a great win than a horrible lose for Martinez.

The Punisher beat the best version of Margarito that any fighter considered near great or an atg ever fought. The only other fighter with a hint of greatness to even come close is Cotto. He also beat Mattysse at 147, The brother of Lucas, also a big time undefeated power puncher at the time. The Quintana rematch was executed viciously. And Quintana has pulled of some fine upsets in his day. Think undefeated Joel Julio, who at the time had been an undefeated prospect of the year by the great Emmanuel Stewart. And the Punisher readily and vigorously called at Cotto, Floyd and Pacman who steadily avoided him. You can't show you can beat a fighter who won't fight you. And the Margarito Punisher beat was the same Margarito that ran Floyd from his own damn interview. *****e, Kelly Pavlik the middleweight champion of the world pulled out of a fight with Paul at least twice. So there's no need to act like Paul wasn't a feared welterweight. He was feared as high as 160. Educate yourself kid.

Ortis and Guerrero were great welterweights though... wait all this is a floyd defense thread? lame. floyd retired in 2007. pwill didn't really jump up in the rankings til 2007 after marg win. there was ppl more deserving of a floyd fight at the time. like maybe cotto or marg. floyd didn't duck pwill. now stfu and quit bashing a crippled dude.

was pwill great? no. did pwill have deficiencies? yes. but let's get real. dude was a HUGE 6'2 welterweight who threw a lot and threw hard. of course ppl didn't want to fight him until they had to.

Ortis and Guerrero were great welterweights though...

you can always tell the newbs by lil things even whey try to talk informed. like mentioning sharmba mitchell vs. floyd. sharmba was just a tuneup for floyd 1st 147 fight. sharmba career ended when he met kostya half a decade earlier. he had a couple good wins and an interim belt until kostya beat him down again. thats what is remembered about sharmba "MY KNEE WAS ACTING UP" mitchell. (everytime kostya tagged him with a right, his knee would get worse LOL) reading he fought sharmba a year after floyd beat him, sounds goofy af.

It is a race issue because if Ricky Hatton was Jermaine Hatton he wouldn't have a fanbase. What a bunch of bull****. Where do you think Lewis and Bruno were from? Both absolutely huge fan bases. Huge. Anthony Joshua? Only 6 fights and already all over commercial TV with a huge following. Khan? Benn? Eubank? The only one of these guys that had a similar charisma as Hatton was Bruno (and Eubank though in a different way), and he was easily as big of a crossover star if not significantly bigger in his time.

Lots of good to great fighters started off rocky early on and found their stride mid career...I never said he had a great defense...I said he had a good defense and it was better than Williams at the world class level His prime was at lightweight and those early loses were to 2 fighters that held major titles in their career and were far more experienced than he was at that point in his career....Javier Jauregui was a 40 fight vet and Cesar Soto was a future title holder and got the wbc at feathweight in 99...fought his first title challenge in 1991....JLC turned pro in 1990....those are no lesser opponents....both these guys also had a better resume than Williams does too....Julio Alvarez was a fellow prospect like Castillo in the late 90s....were you even following boxing then???? a few of those early tko's were based off cuts....he had a lot of scar tissue on his eye brows If he couldn't adjust he would have never come back after being behind vs casamayor in a close fight Williams didn't even use his length and reach.....he was a volume puncher....what world class guy did he ever outbox???? Did'nt say the guys were bums, but were any of them on Cassamayor, Bazan, Johnston or Floyd's level? Hell no. And how about knocking off the smart ass comments about how long someone has been watching boxing? I've been an avid boxing fan since the mid 80's. As for adjustments in the Cassamayor fight, again, just no. He did the same thing all fight, its just that he started to break Joel down. Thats not making adjustments, that is imposing your will on another fighter. Which is what he did best. And again, I can't stress this enough. His style was tailor made to give outboxers trouble. Again, outside of body work, cutting the ring off and possibly a slight power advantage, he was'nt on Paul's level. Did he have the better career? Yup, a HoF career imo, but lets not make him into something he was'nt.

When he was at this weight he was a prospect and went 2-1 vs top ten guys Beat Margo in 07 and lost to and beat Carlos quintana n moved to 154 before the end of 08 After that its a huge drop off in comp...beat sharmba Mitchell almost a year after mayweather did, beat Olympian Terrance cauthen, and Alphonso Sanchez I'm sure some of you never heard of them guys Why do people act like he was some avoided monster when he didn't do much at the weight, his best wins are 154 n up Mosley, Judah, mayweather, cotto were the top guys he never faced any of them He was a huge ww but fought like he was 5'6".... Chin in the air, arm punches, leaky defense....only threat was his height reach n size...his skills were lacking I doubt the best ww in the world was avoiding a guy who lost to Carlos quintana, who was decent but lost to most of the other good fighters he faced not named paul its just a name they can use in the mayweather ducking conversation smh I laugh when I hear it! he had exciting fights but his technique was horrible, didn't use his height, nor jab to his advantage. he got hit waaaay too much!!!