Is it safe to say that no version of Pac beats Mayweather?

Pac is no match for cloud and loses at anytime.

Even Roach said Floyd would have been much tougher to beat 5 years ago so now was the time Pac was close he was gana get to beating, but still failed miserably. "That shoulder doe" .........lol

Mayweather schooled Pacquaio. Learn to accept it. Schooled my azz, rewatch the fight. Mayweather landed nothing, most of his shots hit Pacs gloves or touched air.

Since Pac was ko'ed by JMM he hasn't been the same, so any Pac before the ko would beat Floyd. Plus if he didn't have a bad shoulder he would have beat Floyd, and he did beat Floyd. He got robbed by the judges. Look at how Floyd beat Gatti and Corrales. That's when you know Floyd beat his opponents. He didn't beat Pac. There were times when Pac had Floyd on the ropes and was unloading and then backed off? That's not the Pac of old. Mayweather schooled Pacquaio. Learn to accept it.

Since Pac was ko'ed by JMM he hasn't been the same, so any Pac before the ko would beat Floyd. Plus if he didn't have a bad shoulder he would have beat Floyd, and he did beat Floyd. He got robbed by the judges. Look at how Floyd beat Gatti and Corrales. That's when you know Floyd beat his opponents. He didn't beat Pac. There were times when Pac had Floyd on the ropes and was unloading and then backed off? That's not the Pac of old.

According to Freddie Roach himself Mayweather would have won 5 years ago, so I guess that's your answer http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669182 He was wrong now so he was wrong in that article too. Goes both ways. Manny would not have been so tentative as yesterday (they both were tentative). Plus Floyd had a chance to see Manny lose by KO.

Algieri can't punch, neither can Bradley. So all of a sudden Floyd is a big power puncher now?! LOL people! Everybody called Mayweather a feather fisted puncher, look at Pacquiao's face after the fight, look at Maidana's face after the fight, they didn't look like they were getting beaten up for 12 rounds by the Mike Tyson of the welterweight division, they looked normal even though they were getting tagged with crisp counters and lead rights all night long. I'm a Mayweather fan but I admit his punching power is average at best at welterweight, his hand injuries over the years contributed to him not being a strong puncher at welterweight. I didn't expect Pacquiao to throw 100 punches a round against Floyd cuz Floyd is accurate with the counters, but I also expected much more than 420 punches in the biggest fight of his life, maybe after he got countered in the first round he didn't want anymore and he pretty much gave up, or there's something else behind that!

No version of Pacquiao beats Mayweather. Why? Because the reasons Manny lost yesterday are the same reasons he would always lose: 1.He doesn't know how to cut off the ring 2.He doesn't know how to close the distance against a counter puncher effectively 3.He can't adjust when his first or second plan of attack isn't working. Styles make fights and Floyd has the perfect style to beat Manny. pretty much...

Stamina, workrate and power (especially stamina and power) don't fade with age if you take good care of yourself and fight more often, it's speed, timing and reflexes that can diminish with age. To me what you're saying is that Pacquiao lost because he wasn't physically a 100% like he was in 2010, but to me this means one of 2 things: Either Pacquiao didn't train well for this fight and he took Floyd lightly, or Floyd Mayweather Sr. and Roger were right that Pacquiao was on something back in the day and because of the strict random blood and urine testing for this fight, he couldn't use what he used to use in the past, if you combine that with his refusal to take the test and then him accepting to take it after his fight with Algieri only sold 300 tsd PPVs, you'll realize that the Mayweathers might've been right all along. People talking about Manny being cautios after his KO loss, well, he threw 670 punches in his last fight against Algieri 6 months ago while chasing Algieri all over the ring, so physically he was in a very good condition! what happened in these 6 months that made Pacquiao only throw 420 punches in the biggest fight in his life knowing that his only chance was to outpunch and outwork Floyd Mayweather?! Sorry people, but instead of being mad at Floyd cuz he used movement and outboxed Pacquiao, you have to be mad at Pacquiao who was supposed to be the aggressor and for some reason he just didn't do it and he faded badly in the later rounds! Algieri can't punch, neither can Bradley.

I think a 2009 pac would have been FAR more competitive. A past his prime shot pacquiao was able to make money tentative as hell. That's why mayweather waited 6 years before pac became used goods. But oh well he "won" so that means he's GOAT right floyd phans?

Floyd's cherrypicking ways paid off in the long run. We will never know...now most will go with the assumption and agree. But really, for Pac to have a chance he'd need to maximize his physical strengths and attributes...speed, stamina, workrate, power, etc...He had that back in 2010. It would have been a different fight. But all would agree no version of pac can outbox Floyd. But by pressuring him , he might have been more successful. Stamina, workrate and power (especially stamina and power) don't fade with age if you take good care of yourself and fight more often, it's speed, timing and reflexes that can diminish with age. To me what you're saying is that Pacquiao lost because he wasn't physically a 100% like he was in 2010, but to me this means one of 2 things: Either Pacquiao didn't train well for this fight and he took Floyd lightly, or Floyd Mayweather Sr. and Roger were right that Pacquiao was on something back in the day and because of the strict random blood and urine testing for this fight, he couldn't use what he used to use in the past, if you combine that with his refusal to take the test and then him accepting to take it after his fight with Algieri only sold 300 tsd PPVs, you'll realize that the Mayweathers might've been right all along. People talking about Manny being cautios after his KO loss, well, he threw 670 punches in his last fight against Algieri 6 months ago while chasing Algieri all over the ring, so physically he was in a very good condition! what happened in these 6 months that made Pacquiao only throw 420 punches in the biggest fight in his life knowing that his only chance was to outpunch and outwork Floyd Mayweather?! Sorry people, but instead of being mad at Floyd cuz he used movement and outboxed Pacquiao, you have to be mad at Pacquiao who was supposed to be the aggressor and for some reason he just didn't do it and he faded badly in the later rounds!

Doesn't matter anymore.. Floyd won.. Anyone thinkzing Floyd was gonna go toe to toe was fooled.. Do enough to score points, eliminate your opponents strong points, score enough to win rounds then clinch and evade.. Pac should of made it ugly like Maidana did, not wait for openings..

No he is not. Don't confuse Floyd's having enough skill to still dominate past his prime with being "close to his prime". If anything, Floyd is more out of his prime than Manny. It hurts, but you need to accept that. Dude, I said he wasn't close to prime. I'm not even a Manny fan, I was just saying that Manny's style has suffered more as his career went on than Floyd's did.

While "very close to his prime" is clearly an overstatement, I do think he was closer to prime than Pac. Pac's style benefits more from youth, and more than that he was mentally wrecked by Marquez. No he is not. Don't confuse Floyd's having enough skill to still dominate past his prime with being "close to his prime". If anything, Floyd is more out of his prime than Manny. It hurts, but you need to accept that.

there is a reason why Floyd ducked manny for 6 years and it was even more clear last Saturday....Floyd does not usually run vs southpaws..he ran like 100 miles vs pac despite promising to be aggressive....

"Floyd is still vey close to his prime" :pat: While "very close to his prime" is clearly an overstatement, I do think he was closer to prime than Pac. Pac's style benefits more from youth, and more than that he was mentally wrecked by Marquez.

Would have been a different fight. Its like comparing Duran vs Leonard 1 and 3. If you never saw Duran Leonard 1, you would have sworn there was no way durran could have ever beat Leonard. It was impossible. Leonard was too good, to slick, to precise, to fast. Until Duran made none of that matter. Reality is Pacquiao is old, wayyyy pas his prime, even further past it that I thought he was, and Floyd is still very close to his prime. To many wars, to many hard fights, and at 36, when fighters of his style are usually past their best by 32. "Floyd is still vey close to his prime" :pat:

Absolutely correct. He never ever stood a chance.

Pacqiao's legs made size not an issue. THe whole thing with fighters imposing their size, isnt their actual weight, its imposing their reach. Because when they can touch you from a place you cant touch them, they have the initiative to build momentum off of. Pacquiao use to have the legs to make up that difference. He doesn't anymore. Watch him vs oscar. The way he is in and out of distance is beautiful. Even though I picked against him vs Oscar, vs Hatton, vs Cotto... he proved he could match anyone... He went through a string of big fights he wasnt suppose to win where he dominated. 2009-2010 pac would have been a nightmare. The best time for the fight was right after the Cotto or Hatton fight, but as far as Pacquiao's chances of winning. If he took the Floyd fight instead of the Oscar fight, he would have shocked the world just like Duran did with SRL. Nobody would have seen him coming, or given him a chance, and Floyd would have underestimated him severely. Not only that, but the KO where he was almost killed made him tentative and gunshy as fck. He was tentative against pillowfisted Bradley.

It would have never been that competetive. For Pacquiao to be as competetive as Castillo, Cotto, or Maidana he'd need that similar WEIGHT ADVANTAGE. Pacquiao was always gonna do about as good as Judah. Anyone who is Floyd's size will be lucky to win 3-4 rounds, like Marquez, Judah and Pacquiao ended up winning, 2-4 rounds. Castillo, DLH, Maidana all imposed their size on Mayweather, which made the fights competetive. Pacquiao was fast and powerful, but he always had the shotty defense, was always 148-150, and always had that lunging-in flaw throughout his whole career when he was green, prime and now. The fight at it's best would have always been 8-4 Mayweather, at best. Pacqiao's legs made size not an issue. THe whole thing with fighters imposing their size, isnt their actual weight, its imposing their reach. Because when they can touch you from a place you cant touch them, they have the initiative to build momentum off of. Pacquiao use to have the legs to make up that difference. He doesn't anymore. Watch him vs oscar. The way he is in and out of distance is beautiful. Even though I picked against him vs Oscar, vs Hatton, vs Cotto... he proved he could match anyone... He went through a string of big fights he wasnt suppose to win where he dominated. 2009-2010 pac would have been a nightmare. The best time for the fight was right after the Cotto or Hatton fight, but as far as Pacquiao's chances of winning. If he took the Floyd fight instead of the Oscar fight, he would have shocked the world just like Duran did with SRL. Nobody would have seen him coming, or given him a chance, and Floyd would have underestimated him severely.