So Nicholas walters to Al Haymon means no lomanchenko fights? Thoughts?

Huh? No nbc are where hes putting his big fights. Nbc is "the big deal" for al. Thurman,broner,garcia,chavez jr,wilder he's gonna build these guys on network tv. He wants to go away from that pay per view format. I've herd time and time again from industry insiders that he wants to get back to the old days. So what does he need showtime for. He basically held them at gunpoint last year and robbed them for there cash If NBC pays Haymon $100m per year (for 12 primetime dates on NBC, and a weekly boxing series on NBC/NBCSN), the calculus would change a ton. That's not the case now, though

Huh? No nbc are where hes putting his big fights. Nbc is "the big deal" for al. Thurman,broner,garcia,chavez jr,wilder he's gonna build these guys on network tv. He wants to go away from that pay per view format. I've herd time and time again from industry insiders that he wants to get back to the old days. So what does he need showtime for. He basically held them at gunpoint last year and robbed them for there cash The PPV model, as it currently stands, is fleeting; Mayweather, Alvarez, Pacquiao, and Cotto (possibly Wilder/Klitscko and Khan) are the only fighters who require a PPV structure to generate their respective viable purses. Pretty much every other fighter on the planet (Povetkin in Russia, Huck is Germany, Mundine in Australia, and a few others), as of this moment, has a ceiling of $1.5m. With a budget of $2m-$3m, you can deliver a stacked four-fight televised card. Haymon believes he can successfully do that on network TV (he's only committed himself to five prime dates) and build up his guys. Still, if he's successful, the elite guys will still be moved to PPV. Wilder-Fury is likely viable, financially, on NBC or Showtime, but the money isn't there off of PPV to cover Klitschko-Wilder for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world. If Danny Garcia beats Peterson in style and emerges as the new fighting star for Puerto Ricans, on the island and abroad, "Swift" Garcia will be moved to PPV. If Chavez Jr lives up to his father's name in his performance, he moves to PPV. Beyond that, if given the proper push, PPV will return to being the home for only massive showdowns. Showtime becomes Haymon' PPV outlet, while also showcasing their own share of the marquee matchups.

A lot of what ifs there. For all that talent, they had a disastrous last year, empty schedule, a a massive financial hit coming on may 2. And Haymon slaps them in the face by taking all those fights he promised them to another network, and having Espinoza tried to put a positive spin on that lol. Moonves would have to be a glutton for punishment to roll with all that Last year was "disastrous" because Oscar De La Hoya, fresh from finally coming out of whatever bender, jumped back into the fold with his delusional insistence on working with Bob Arum, a promoter that the key players (Mayweather/Schaefer/Haymon) have a deep mistrust of and, more importantly, the default fight promoter for HBO, Showtime's chief rival. (Arguing about the "massive financial hit" without acknowledging that Mayweather-Alvarez was a record-setting success is disingenous). Oscar made the decision that he did, and no one went with him, sans Eric Gomez (his best friend) and Saul Alvarez (his top star and a fighter with an apparent 85/15 co-venture between his company (Canelo Promotions) and Golden Boy. Bernard Hopkins even went as far as demanding a extended sit down with Oscar, before deciding to stick with the company. Lastly, would hold off on the "Moonves must be a masochist" rhetoric, because it's only February. Wilder-Fury, Froch-Chavez Jr, Khan-Brook, Stevenson-Pascal/Stevenson-Kovalev, Mares-Gonzalez 2, Santa Cruz-Frampton, the ring return of Marcos Maidana, campaigns of Thurman, Garcia, and Broner, and the step-up phase for Haymon's massive slate of prospect (Spence Jr, Charlos, JRock, etc), in addition to other fights. And that's before even thinking of the final two Mayweather events. Haymon works with over 160 fighters directly, at various points in their careers whom, outside of a handful of fighters, are looking to fight at least 3-4 times this year; do you honestly think that Haymon won't be a part of 60-70 shows this year? lol

Huh? No nbc are where hes putting his big fights. Nbc is "the big deal" for al. Thurman,broner,garcia,chavez jr,wilder he's gonna build these guys on network tv. He wants to go away from that pay per view format. I've herd time and time again from industry insiders that he wants to get back to the old days. So what does he need showtime for. He basically held them at gunpoint last year and robbed them for there cash obviously the network NBC night will be relatively big fights. Go back to old days? bull****, hes in this for the long term, invest and takeover boxing, where does the payoff for him and his investors come in? think logically, payoff is PPV and/or subscription based model (i.e WWE). HBO and Showtime to a further extent recognize this as well. How do they make money? subscriptions and PPV distribution. Does boxing really move the needle for HBO/Showtime to increase their subscription base? No it does not. Evidence of this is simple ratings. HBO roughly 30M subscrip base, rating at best do 1.5, thats 3%. Hence why HBO reduced their budget and hired Hershman (who was known as doing more with less at Showtime). Showtime probably going to follow suit and lower their budget, focus on big fights only and PPV.

exactly, and to add to this, showtime now will be exclusive to premier level fights that are not quite ppv, all the other time buy networks will be used to build up the boxers and matchups. Showtime happy, since where the real money is ultimately made in boxing is ppv. Longterm strategy is to develop ppv stars (deontay, errol etc...) Huh? No nbc are where hes putting his big fights. Nbc is "the big deal" for al. Thurman,broner,garcia,chavez jr,wilder he's gonna build these guys on network tv. He wants to go away from that pay per view format. I've herd time and time again from industry insiders that he wants to get back to the old days. So what does he need showtime for. He basically held them at gunpoint last year and robbed them for there cash

What bridge has Haymon burned with Showtime? Though he'll likely make one title defense in primetime on NBC, Showtime is now home to America's newest heavyweight champion Deontay Wilder. Showtime is still the exclusive home of Floyd Mayweather Jr, the sports unquestioned top draw and best fighter. Stevenson's mandatory defense, as mandated by the WBC, is the winner of the WBA/IBF/WBO fight between Kovalev and Pascal (50/50 split of the purse bid has been written into the deal, and Showtime has proven that they are willing to put up the money for fights that they want). On top of that, Haymon has most of the sports young prospects under his umbrella and he's paying for the extra TV dates out of his own pocket. If NBCUniversal, or anyone else for that matter, offered up a content deal, a la FS1 and the UFC, the conversation changes (ie NBCUniversal pays Haymon Boxing $100m per year for 12 primetime fights on NBC, and a weekly boxing series on NBC/NBCSN). Even with that, Haymon would still need an avenue to showcase his fighters that likely break into being PPV stars and PPV-quality fights. It's likely that that outfit would be Showtime. Haymon has 60%-70% of the sports' top name fighters under his umbrella/in his orbit, with that percentage being even higher when considering the sport's top budding prospects. lol at "promoters licking their chops"; HBO, outside of being willing to work with select fighters, is basically exclusive to Top Rank. Where are all of these matchups that can be made for non-HBO (Showtime or otherwise) without working with Haymon? exactly, and to add to this, showtime now will be exclusive to premier level fights that are not quite ppv, all the other time buy networks will be used to build up the boxers and matchups. Showtime happy, since where the real money is ultimately made in boxing is ppv. Longterm strategy is to develop ppv stars (deontay, errol etc...)

as long as walters fights mares and that little punk a$$ b!!!h Santa cruz I'm fine with it. reasltically the mares fight could happen. since leo is on the quillin/stevenson plan.

Crawford ,Verdejo, Valdez, Frankie Gomez, Loma etc That list is nothing compared to Haymon's youth roster.Al has those guys buried several times over. GGG and Kovalev are not spring chickens...and not nearly as good as advertised. HBO is in a bad spot. If you say so, cowardly alt

Those guys don't have the fighters Haymon does....YOUNG fighters. Duva and HBO fighters are old. Non-Haymon fighters today will surely be Al Haymon fighters tomorrow. Leo Santa Cruz made more fighting a NOBODY than Kovalev made fighting HOPKINS. Robert Guerrero makes more than GGG. That's why HBO is on the right track, they get a lot of bang for their buck with GGG, Kov in particular. Not having to grossly overpay scrubs like Guerrero, or Leo for another mismatch. HBO has plenty of young talent, Crawford (way better than Broner), Verdejo, Valdez, Frankie Gomez, Loma etc

the critique simply doesn't make sense. How can Showtime be run into the ground when, at the worse, they are now home to Deontay Wilder, the young charismatic, American heavyweight champion? Keith Thurman and Danny Garcia, among others, are the next stars of the sport and they fight on Showtime. Heck, Erroll Spence Jr, imo America's brightest prospect, is likely to have a ton of fights on Showtime. lol. If May-Pac doesn't happen, Showtime moves on to Mayweather-Cotto 2 (Cotto, now re-invigorated under Freddie Roach, "gave Mayweather a rugged fight" the first time and will be hyped as being able to do significantly better. To that, you add the prestige of Mayweather chasing a sixth divisional world championship, while matching Henry Armstrong's feat of being champion in three divisions at the same time) or Mayweather-Khan (old lion vs young lion, Khan's style would be hyped up as utter kryptonite for Mayweather, massive interest in the UK, etc). You add that the general sports media will have seen Bob Arum tell his host of false truths, while HBO would be tarred as being unwilling to accept terms similar to what they pushed for in the only other prior instance of a joint PPV, and Showtime would be just fine. Having Brook-Khan, Froch-Chavez Jr, Stevenson-Pascal (with a likely excessive bid for Stevenson-Kovalev) and other fights wouldn't hurt either. A lot of what ifs there. For all that talent, they had a disastrous last year, empty schedule, a a massive financial hit coming on may 2. And Haymon slaps them in the face by taking all those fights he promised them to another network, and having Espinoza tried to put a positive spin on that lol. Moonves would have to be a glutton for punishment to roll with all that

Same question from another poster, see my response. Sho boxing has been run into the ground in record time, after so much hype not long ago, and major financial commitments. Sho used to be about great fights on the cheap, now its like the opposite. Looks like no Floyd Pac on May 2. Lets see where Sho is after that trainwreck. Hbo is not top rank only, its whoever brings the talent. Unlike in Greenburg/Haymon era, when Duva, K2 didnt have a prayer of promoting on hbo the critique simply doesn't make sense. How can Showtime be run into the ground when, at the worse, they are now home to Deontay Wilder, the young charismatic, American heavyweight champion? Keith Thurman and Danny Garcia, among others, are the next stars of the sport and they fight on Showtime. Heck, Erroll Spence Jr, imo America's brightest prospect, is likely to have a ton of fights on Showtime. lol. If May-Pac doesn't happen, Showtime moves on to Mayweather-Cotto 2 (Cotto, now re-invigorated under Freddie Roach, "gave Mayweather a rugged fight" the first time and will be hyped as being able to do significantly better. To that, you add the prestige of Mayweather chasing a sixth divisional world championship, while matching Henry Armstrong's feat of being champion in three divisions at the same time) or Mayweather-Khan (old lion vs young lion, Khan's style would be hyped up as utter kryptonite for Mayweather, massive interest in the UK, etc). You add that the general sports media will have seen Bob Arum tell his host of false truths, while HBO would be tarred as being unwilling to accept terms similar to what they pushed for in the only other prior instance of a joint PPV, and Showtime would be just fine. Having Brook-Khan, Froch-Chavez Jr, Stevenson-Pascal (with a likely excessive bid for Stevenson-Kovalev) and other fights wouldn't hurt either.

So you're more concerned with how much money a fighter makes, than actually seeing great matchups. That is why you watch boxing. Weird. Personally, I'm tired of reading all of the stories about former world champions, and the sport's biggest stars, ending up battered and destitute, because some promoter or manager was more than happy to have a fighter "fight for their legacy" while they, themselves, were simply focused on keeping as much of the take as possible in their own pockets. Bob Arum, God have mercy on his soul, has an estimated net worth of over $200m. Outside of Oscar and Floyd, who had to leave Arum to really start to make their own money, Pacquiao is the only fighter to make a massive amount of money (with that being put into question, pending the resolution of his tax situation). How that makes sense to you is beyond me. Seeing great fights is always the goal of any fan. I simply enjoy boxing more, as a rationed and reasoned adult, knowing that the two guys, beating each others brains in, are walking away with 70%-80% of the proceeds from their toils. Ward and Gatti both have/had families to take care; regardless of how thrilling their fights were, it grind on my spirit if both guys basically made no money from the actual fight, while some old curmudgeon sat 10 rows back, pocketing all of the actual money.

Lomachenko might go down as the greatest ever. A Haymon dividing boxing in two is a ****ing disgrace. The eastern Euro honkey army are taking over.

So you're more concerned with how much money a fighter makes, than actually seeing great matchups. That is why you watch boxing. Weird. Tell me about it. Promoter and network fans are more into the business side of things instead of the actual sport of Boxing. I have a feeling this year Haymon is going to give us nothing but "Quantity over Quality" fights in 2015. Everybody will make the excuse that "hey more boxing on TV is good for me" approach but I rather watch the best fight the best and I just don't see it happening. I don't see anything so special in Walters, Santa Cruz, Quillin, Broner, Stevenson, Garcia and Thurman for Haymon to protect them from losing. None of these fighters listed are never going to sell more than 100k PPV buys.

What bridge has Haymon burned with Showtime? Though he'll likely make one title defense in primetime on NBC, Showtime is now home to America's newest heavyweight champion Deontay Wilder. Showtime is still the exclusive home of Floyd Mayweather Jr, the sports unquestioned top draw and best fighter. Stevenson's mandatory defense, as mandated by the WBC, is the winner of the WBA/IBF/WBO fight between Kovalev and Pascal (50/50 split of the purse bid has been written into the deal, and Showtime has proven that they are willing to put up the money for fights that they want). On top of that, Haymon has most of the sports young prospects under his umbrella and he's paying for the extra TV dates out of his own pocket. If NBCUniversal, or anyone else for that matter, offered up a content deal, a la FS1 and the UFC, the conversation changes (ie NBCUniversal pays Haymon Boxing $100m per year for 12 primetime fights on NBC, and a weekly boxing series on NBC/NBCSN). Even with that, Haymon would still need an avenue to showcase his fighters that likely break into being PPV stars and PPV-quality fights. It's likely that that outfit would be Showtime. Haymon has 60%-70% of the sports' top name fighters under his umbrella/in his orbit, with that percentage being even higher when considering the sport's top budding prospects. lol at "promoters licking their chops"; HBO, outside of being willing to work with select fighters, is basically exclusive to Top Rank. Where are all of these matchups that can be made for non-HBO (Showtime or otherwise) without working with Haymon? Same question from another poster, see my response. Sho boxing has been run into the ground in record time, after so much hype not long ago, and major financial commitments. Sho used to be about great fights on the cheap, now its like the opposite. Looks like no Floyd Pac on May 2. Lets see where Sho is after that trainwreck. Hbo is not top rank only, its whoever brings the talent. Unlike in Greenburg/Haymon era, when Duva, K2 didnt have a prayer of promoting on hbo

It's called prize fighting. Who is making more money? That's why they sign with Haymon. At the end of the day I couldn't care less who is with who as long as the matchups I want to see are made and Walters-Loma makes my mouth water. We shall see how things play out but Bob and Haymon aren't exactly on friendly terms. So you're more concerned with how much money a fighter makes, than actually seeing great matchups. That is why you watch boxing. Weird.

This thing he's starting up is a league, so that's fracturing the sport by definition. Whether it's good or bad, we'll see, but the economics seem sketchy. Adapt to new order of things lol. These promoters are licking their chops cause the only networks that pay major money for boxing are HBO and SHO. Haymon is out at HBO, and pretty much burned bridges at SHO. What bridge has Haymon burned with Showtime? Though he'll likely make one title defense in primetime on NBC, Showtime is now home to America's newest heavyweight champion Deontay Wilder. Showtime is still the exclusive home of Floyd Mayweather Jr, the sports unquestioned top draw and best fighter. Stevenson's mandatory defense, as mandated by the WBC, is the winner of the WBA/IBF/WBO fight between Kovalev and Pascal (50/50 split of the purse bid has been written into the deal, and Showtime has proven that they are willing to put up the money for fights that they want). On top of that, Haymon has most of the sports young prospects under his umbrella and he's paying for the extra TV dates out of his own pocket. If NBCUniversal, or anyone else for that matter, offered up a content deal, a la FS1 and the UFC, the conversation changes (ie NBCUniversal pays Haymon Boxing $100m per year for 12 primetime fights on NBC, and a weekly boxing series on NBC/NBCSN). Even with that, Haymon would still need an avenue to showcase his fighters that likely break into being PPV stars and PPV-quality fights. It's likely that that outfit would be Showtime. Haymon has 60%-70% of the sports' top name fighters under his umbrella/in his orbit, with that percentage being even higher when considering the sport's top budding prospects. lol at "promoters licking their chops"; HBO, outside of being willing to work with select fighters, is basically exclusive to Top Rank. Where are all of these matchups that can be made for non-HBO (Showtime or otherwise) without working with Haymon?

You gotta do what you have to do Arum. This TBE guy will never going to be helpful in making this fight happen. All he's focused on is play blame games. And he thinks people are that stupid. You're just wasting time Arum. Execute plan B ASAP. The sooner Pacman moves on, the better.

HBO is not gonna let Haymon put the screws on them for Nick Walters lol. They'd invested a ton more in the more marketable Broner, and let him go when they kicked Haymon out. We will see. Regardless of what you think of Walters' ability, he's shaping to be HBO's exciting fighter at 126 (Lomachenko clearly has the talent, but I've only seen the Russel Jr fight, so I'm not sure how exciting his style could end up being). Walters can fight Cuellar (WBA #1 challenger), fight whatever mandatory that comes up after that, and hit the open market. 27-0, likely 23 KOs, at all of 30 years of age and with a catchy gimmick ("Axe Man" with his axe), in a division with all of maybe two other marketable names . take that bet if you want. HBO let Adrien Broner, a budding and charismatic star at 135/140, go and are now left with Chris Algieri and possibly Jessie Vargas being their stars in his stead (Terrence Crawford has clear talent, but I'm not sure if his charisma will ever crossover to the HBO audience tbh).

Kovalev and GGG are taking smaller checks from HBO for more dates and are headlining cards. Leo Santa Cruz is fighting bums twice a year and no exposure. He ****ing sucks. It's called prize fighting. Who is making more money? That's why they sign with Haymon. At the end of the day I couldn't care less who is with who as long as the matchups I want to see are made and Walters-Loma makes my mouth water. We shall see how things play out but Bob and Haymon aren't exactly on friendly terms.