Do you consider Marquez's KO Victory over Pacquiao...

Marquez been landing the same punch throughout the 4 fights and Pac couldn't make an adustment for it, nor Freddie the 'great' trainer. It could as well been in the 2nd or 3rd fight.

Full Credit to Marquez. He also took a beating but he never caved or backed off.

If I were to win a million dollars by choosing the correct answer as to Marquez being on roids that night, I would choose that he was. I do not know it for a fact, but he was working with Memo and he had the roid acne and the sudden insane body. I suppose it is a subjective thing. You can choose to believe what you want. Marquez is an amazing fighter but roids are an unfair advantage. so does it take away from the victory? Well most people aren't going to do what Marquez did roids or no roids. But yes, it takes away from it significantly if he was on roids. But we have no way of knowing definitively. Every fight needs VADA testing. That is the moral of the story.

Full credit to Memo. Juan MemoAcne Pedquez. Memo p4p#1

No failed drug tests and no refusal to take a drug test,this to me rules out steroids being a reason why Marquez won. Marquez landed that same counter right hand on Pacquiao in all 4 fights but this time Marquez himself was really ready to go and Pacquiao got reckless and walked into the punch with all his weight.

The thing that bothered me was that his ability to tastaske PACs puncvhes was totally fiiferent from first fight. The wind of PACs punches missing jmm chin in first fight was nearly enough to put jmm down.

Coming up on 4 years in a few short months. Such a special night that was and such an impressive and well deserved victory for the living legend that is Marquez. It seems like the board pretty much agreed on the matter, something we rarely see around these parts.

It's a culmination of 8 years, 40+ rounds, night and day of mental preparation to get the win. Marquez was a man obsessed with beating Pacquiao. A man who probably watched hundreds of hours of tape over and over to study Pacquiao's movements and tendencies. It was Marquez's mission to beat Pacquiao and when someone puts that much time and effort in order to do something, they usually get what they deserve. Could Marquez have been on MemoRoids? Maybe, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that Marquez studied and knew Pacquiao almost as well as Pacquiao knew himself.

This thread is about jmm v Manny. There is no need to mention Floyd's name as he wasn't involved in any way. If you considered Manny clean since he passed the tests, than you must consider jmm clean as well. If you think otherwise, the same applies to Manny. Sorry dude, you can't type your way out of hypocrisy. One could argue Manny said no to testing because he was dirty or planned to use just as easily as you argue jmm had undetectable PED's. I have said in the past that I don't know if Manny was clean. How can one really know? The issue again was that Floyd was using it as a roadblock because even when Manny said yes to that, Floyd still said no, no and no. The hypocrisy are Floyd fans who hate CWs but now are OK about it ..... when Floyd does them. Even have the nerve to say "Cotto losing 2lbs is harder than Canelo losing 2lbs" :rofl: The hypocrisy is thinking that Manny must have been a PEDs user and then in this poll saying that they are not even suspicious about Marquez. .

A cut off date is not random testing. They were negotiating. Which was already tough under the circumstances that Floyd and company already had accused Manny of taking PEDs.

First of all it was the feet entanglement that had trip Pac up and had him off balance chin up and hands down. If you watch the replay overhead you can clearly see his knees buckled before the punch... Its boxing. But this perfect timing BS needs to go. 40 Rounds and being Knocked Down Five times is not timing or a plan. First of all its rare to get 40 rounds with someone. If it takes you 40 rounds and 5 knock downs is that pefect timing or is that in 40 rounds anything is liable to happen. Hassin Rahman had pefect timing against Lewis and it only took him 5 rounds 35 less rounds and 0 knock downs. Next if some has it 114 to 113 one way how is it a Major Robbery if its 114 to 113 the other way? That means its a ONE out of 12 round disagreement. 7 to 5 or 6 to 6 with a KD can shift 114 to 113 either way. In the third fight Pac threw more and landed more in 8 rounds Marquez landed more in 3 rounds and 1 round was a tie. So if he threw more and landed more in 8 rounds hence the 116 to 112. Close fights and rounds, normally goes to the guy throwing the most punches and making the fight vs. the counter puncher. How is that a robbery. Next, Pacquiao followed up the De La Hoya KO with a Hatton KO and Cotto KO. Marquez followed his KO up with a clear loss to Bradley and then the Alvarado fight with the chest and back acne and a guy WORLD FAMOUS for hiding ROIDS from test in your corner is suspect. Bradley requested testing Arum shafted him on that Alvarado needed the fight and accepted regular testing. Marquez hasn't fought since because of the body transformation at 39 and the Memo in the corner and the chest and back acne nobody is getting in the ring with him that's in a position to request testing. Brock and etc, all requested testing and that's why Marquez hasn't fought since nobody will fight him without testing... The victory is tainted and lucky. Rahman and Douglas did their upset KOs in the first fight in 5 or 10 rounds. To do something in the 4th fight in the 40th round is silly to discuss as something great because if that's the case why didn't you do it in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd fight or the 5th, 10th 20th, 30th, or 35th round. Rahman didn't need 4 fights or more than 5 rounds to get Lewis, Lewis didn't need 4 fights to get him back. The stars lined up for a roided up counter puncher like they never did in the first 3 fights and 39 rounds and then they faded in the next fight. Then the proof was on his chest and back in the Alvarado fight. You don't hire a roid cheat unless you plan on using him for what he is famous for. You hire Phil Jackson for Basketball, Michael Jackson to Sing and Dance, Brad Pitt to Act, and the Roid Cheat to help you Riod Cheat. Its not Rocket Science. Paragraphs.

Yea he deserves all the credit for that knockout. Steroids are just a part of this sport and always will be. If you can get away with juicing, unscathed by the media, then Top Rank should have had stricter test for the old warrior. For an aging Marquez, I think the idea of giving Marquez the cover to juice only made the fight that much better. It's highly debatable on here but I'd say Marquez performed a miracle in there that night. 9 times out of 10, Pac stops Marquez that night.

Greatest victory in mexican boxing history. That drama Jmm with a broken nose and was almost out the round before and scores the vicous ko shot from hell. After being robbed of a descion that last fight against and icon in pac man. Marquez proved everybody wrong and was a moment the boxing world will never forget.

First of all it was the feet entanglement that had trip Pac up and had him off balance chin up and hands down. If you watch the replay overhead you can clearly see his knees buckled before the punch... Its boxing. But this perfect timing BS needs to go. 40 Rounds and being Knocked Down Five times is not timing or a plan. First of all its rare to get 40 rounds with someone. If it takes you 40 rounds and 5 knock downs is that pefect timing or is that in 40 rounds anything is liable to happen. Hassin Rahman had pefect timing against Lewis and it only took him 5 rounds 35 less rounds and 0 knock downs. Next if some has it 114 to 113 one way how is it a Major Robbery if its 114 to 113 the other way? That means its a ONE out of 12 round disagreement. 7 to 5 or 6 to 6 with a KD can shift 114 to 113 either way. In the third fight Pac threw more and landed more in 8 rounds Marquez landed more in 3 rounds and 1 round was a tie. So if he threw more and landed more in 8 rounds hence the 116 to 112. Close fights and rounds, normally goes to the guy throwing the most punches and making the fight vs. the counter puncher. How is that a robbery. Next, Pacquiao followed up the De La Hoya KO with a Hatton KO and Cotto KO. Marquez followed his KO up with a clear loss to Bradley and then the Alvarado fight with the chest and back acne and a guy WORLD FAMOUS for hiding ROIDS from test in your corner is suspect. Bradley requested testing Arum shafted him on that Alvarado needed the fight and accepted regular testing. Marquez hasn't fought since because of the body transformation at 39 and the Memo in the corner and the chest and back acne nobody is getting in the ring with him that's in a position to request testing. Brock and etc, all requested testing and that's why Marquez hasn't fought since nobody will fight him without testing... The victory is tainted and lucky. Rahman and Douglas did their upset KOs in the first fight in 5 or 10 rounds. To do something in the 4th fight in the 40th round is silly to discuss as something great because if that's the case why didn't you do it in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd fight or the 5th, 10th 20th, 30th, or 35th round. Rahman didn't need 4 fights or more than 5 rounds to get Lewis, Lewis didn't need 4 fights to get him back. The stars lined up for a roided up counter puncher like they never did in the first 3 fights and 39 rounds and then they faded in the next fight. Then the proof was on his chest and back in the Alvarado fight. You don't hire a roid cheat unless you plan on using him for what he is famous for. You hire Phil Jackson for Basketball, Michael Jackson to Sing and Dance, Brad Pitt to Act, and the Roid Cheat to help you Riod Cheat. Its not Rocket Science. This is the truth listen to this man

First of all it was the feet entanglement that had trip Pac up and had him off balance chin up and hands down. If you watch the replay overhead you can clearly see his knees buckled before the punch... Its boxing. But this perfect timing BS needs to go. 40 Rounds and being Knocked Down Five times is not timing or a plan. First of all its rare to get 40 rounds with someone. If it takes you 40 rounds and 5 knock downs is that pefect timing or is that in 40 rounds anything is liable to happen. Hassin Rahman had pefect timing against Lewis and it only took him 5 rounds 35 less rounds and 0 knock downs. Next if some has it 114 to 113 one way how is it a Major Robbery if its 114 to 113 the other way? That means its a ONE out of 12 round disagreement. 7 to 5 or 6 to 6 with a KD can shift 114 to 113 either way. In the third fight Pac threw more and landed more in 8 rounds Marquez landed more in 3 rounds and 1 round was a tie. So if he threw more and landed more in 8 rounds hence the 116 to 112. Close fights and rounds, normally goes to the guy throwing the most punches and making the fight vs. the counter puncher. How is that a robbery. Next, Pacquiao followed up the De La Hoya KO with a Hatton KO and Cotto KO. Marquez followed his KO up with a clear loss to Bradley and then the Alvarado fight with the chest and back acne and a guy WORLD FAMOUS for hiding ROIDS from test in your corner is suspect. Bradley requested testing Arum shafted him on that Alvarado needed the fight and accepted regular testing. Marquez hasn't fought since because of the body transformation at 39 and the Memo in the corner and the chest and back acne nobody is getting in the ring with him that's in a position to request testing. Brock and etc, all requested testing and that's why Marquez hasn't fought since nobody will fight him without testing... The victory is tainted and lucky. Rahman and Douglas did their upset KOs in the first fight in 5 or 10 rounds. To do something in the 4th fight in the 40th round is silly to discuss as something great because if that's the case why didn't you do it in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd fight or the 5th, 10th 20th, 30th, or 35th round. Rahman didn't need 4 fights or more than 5 rounds to get Lewis, Lewis didn't need 4 fights to get him back. The stars lined up for a roided up counter puncher like they never did in the first 3 fights and 39 rounds and then they faded in the next fight. Then the proof was on his chest and back in the Alvarado fight. You don't hire a roid cheat unless you plan on using him for what he is famous for. You hire Phil Jackson for Basketball, Michael Jackson to Sing and Dance, Brad Pitt to Act, and the Roid Cheat to help you Riod Cheat. Its not Rocket Science.

why are you talking Floyd/Manny this is about JMM/Manny? Manny asked JMM to test, JMM said sure, If you do as well. Manny said no and then rescinded the request for testing. JMM and Manny both passed the regular commission tests. Whenever Manny passed these tests after previous fights, you and other Pac fans cited this as proof Manny was clean. Yet for JMM it's different. Why do you and other Pac fans have such a double standard? Because they're mentally challenged people

A cut off date is not random testing. I honestly do not get how they do not understand this

I've been a huge fan of Marquez for years and thought he got jobbed every time against Pacquiao. I was delighted at the time to see him finally get a decisive win but I've got to admit that over time, it's become very clouded in my mind.

I brought up Manny/Floyd since his comment came from those discussions. Just like you did with your silly line that they both passed the commission tests. You still don't get the issues. Floyd either used it as a psychological advantage over Manny or now we know the real reason is that Floyd just put it out as a roadblock to stop the fight from happening. Very few people said that they didn't want any testing. We wanted to see the fight. Remember the poll? Manny fans were hoping that Manny agreed to 14 day cutoff date so you fail. After a few months Manny agreed to 14 then 7 then random testing. What happened? No fight. The difference with Marquez is MEMO. Not hard to understand. He admitted to giving it to many athletes and was proud about doing it and thinks its still a good thing since it levels the playing field. It gives you what you don't have. Marquez didn't knock Manny down once in 3 fights then does it not once but twice in the 4th fight? Then we see him with acne at 40 something? Memo probably told Marquez not to worry because he can easily mask the PEDs so that commissions or USADA can be beaten easily. As for Marquez agreeing, he agreed after the contracts were signed. Try to get something resolved including all the particulars, good luck with that! So the double standards, as you put it, is coming from the Floyd fans who were suspicious of Manny but who in this poll are indicating that they have zero suspicions about the 40 year old acne filled Marquez who has an admitted cheat in his corner. :lol1: This thread is about jmm v Manny. There is no need to mention Floyd's name as he wasn't involved in any way. If you considered Manny clean since he passed the tests, than you must consider jmm clean as well. If you think otherwise, the same applies to Manny. Sorry dude, you can't type your way out of hypocrisy. One could argue Manny said no to testing because he was dirty or planned to use just as easily as you argue jmm had undetectable PED's.

This line is the irony in all this but people seem to think that Manny and his fans deserve this but in fact they shouldn't. If you go back to the original negotiations, Manny did accept extra testing. Random urine testing was agreed upon and blood test up to 3 weeks from the fight. Floyd/Manny were about 1 week apart with their agreed cutoffs. Secondly, when there was a poll a majority of those who polled agreed that Manny should have agreed to 14 days cutoff just to get the fight on. This included many Manny fans. Funny or the irony in all this is that the people who had been demanding for random testing are the ones that don't give a sh$t. So to pull that line that you did may appear to be right because of a quote out of many quotes, but its far from it. A cut off date is not random testing.