P4P Irrelevance

I actually managed to edit my own post accidentally.. Anyway the RING (a major publication) ranked Manny above both Floyd and Shane in 2009 and 2010 as seen here: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Welterweight--2000s http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Welterweight--2010s Well those are the dates i'm talking about, as Floyd actually beat Shane in 2010.. I assume Manny's completely dominant win over Cotto had a lot to do with it. Springs Toledo, who now writes for TBRB, responded to me regarding this one and said that Floyd and Shane weren't ranked 1 and 2. Here is his quote: Mararito was ranked #4 when he faced Cotto, who was #1 according to The Ring before their bout. Margarito was #1 and Mosley was #3 when they fought, with Cotto at #2. Floyd was #3 and Mosley #2 when they fought, with Pacquiao at #1. There have been no #1 vs. #2 matches at Welterweight since Floyd retired in 2008. http://www.tbrb.org/all-rankings/ - comments section, refer to September 20, 2013

Decent points survivor , Floyd sneaks into my list

Some people had Manny ranked over Shane, hence Floyd's lineage at 147 is only partially recognised thats not why the lineage was disputed. literally no publication had manny ranked over shane at that time, and how could they? he did nothing to be ranked over shane. the reason the lineage was disputed had everything to do wityh paul williams, who left the division at the time of cotto vs. margarito. he never came back but he was still considered the #1 or 2 ww at the time because he said he was still a 147lb fighter so there were many who didnt feel a lineage was established with cotto beating margarito. shane had beat margarito, firmly making him the #1 ww. pac hadnt fought anyone of note at welter yet. he went on to fight cotto but cotto had just lost to margarito the year before so how does that catapult him over shane?

P4P is irrelevant, other than the number 1 spot. That is relevant, as it adds marketability to a fighter. It has nothing to do with legacy Divisional rankings are far far superior to mythical P4P lists. http://www.tbrb.org/all-rankings/ Some people had Manny ranked over Shane, hence Floyd's lineage at 147 is only partially recognised Yes and yes...

Dude, wtf are u talking about? Seriously just step away from the computer. The point is Shane Moseky was the #1 welter and he was a p4p fighter when Floyd fought him and yes, it took him over a year to find an opponent. That stuff is true. Idc about your p4p drivel because frankly, all that is is your opinion. And that's all p4p is, it's opinion. U cannot degrade the fact that Shane was the #1 ww because he isn't "a great fighter" because none of that matters. He was still the lineal champion and the man to beat at welter when Floyd fought him. Some people had Manny ranked over Shane, hence Floyd's lineage at 147 is only partially recognised

P4P is irrelevant, other than the number 1 spot. That is relevant, as it adds marketability to a fighter. It has nothing to do with legacy Divisional rankings are far far superior to mythical P4P lists. http://www.tbrb.org/all-rankings/

I actually thought it was an interesting fight - entertaining even. I didn't anticipate either fighter fighting the ways they did. It annoys me, however, when coaches try to transform sluggers and brawlers into boxer-puncher types, as was the case with Maidana. It would have been better had he employed the same gameplan as in the first fight, although with Bayless as referee I can't be sure of that. Despite his crap gameplan, Maidana nailed Floyd with a fair few peaches in this fight; I think Floyd was rocked a few times. Hopefully Floyd's next fights aren't wasted on Brook or Khan. Those guys suck anushole. Thurman would be a good opponent. I know that both of these are in the calssic, basic styles ofboxing but I never totally understood what are the exact differences between them. It seems like somtimes fighters get these tags random. I know that a swarmer is more likes to fight inside and a brawler more likes better to trade punches in the pocket but it's still not totally clear. Someone can explain it properly, with examples? And which fighter is considered as a swarmer today? Lamont Peterson? Because he is an inside fighter. But inside fighter is exactly the same as swarmer? Or Shawn Porter maybe? And what about punchers? They are the brawlers with serious punching power or you think that's a whole different stlye again? Ariza has made himself to be the Boxing Whor? everyone passes him around what am I talking about? I'm talking about when somebody said no one wanted to fight Mosley at that stage in his career, which is wrong as he was slated to fight Berto. Second point, Floyd fans talk about Mosley as if he was still a great fighter, yes he beat Mayorga but if you actually watch the fight, he was being soundly outboxed till that literal last second KO. Mosley v Margy was his first great performance in years, particularly at the highest level. If you know boxing than you know the age old adage of: "Every great fighter has one last great fight in him". That was Mosley's last great fight. To not box for almost over 14 months, at the age of 38/39, when in almost all your previous 4 fights but one you've looked mediocre at best, does not equate to a great opponent. It really is as simple as that. Anyway, this just goes to show how small minded Mayweather fans are that when P4P is brought up, all they can think of is him lol P4P is bigger than Floyd and if you read my original post, this whole thread isn't really about him but rather the system, or lack of, in place and how divisional rankings and superiority are far more important, imo. Dude, wtf are u talking about? Seriously just step away from the computer. The point is Shane Moseky was the #1 welter and he was a p4p fighter when Floyd fought him and yes, it took him over a year to find an opponent. That stuff is true. Idc about your p4p drivel because frankly, all that is is your opinion. And that's all p4p is, it's opinion. U cannot degrade the fact that Shane was the #1 ww because he isn't "a great fighter" because none of that matters. He was still the lineal champion and the man to beat at welter when Floyd fought him.

It's a mythical list. It doesn't mean shyt. Everybody has a different opinion on it. There have been times when it did mean something, in the mid-to late 90s, you could make an argument for Oscar or Jones being p4p the best fighters on the planet, when the term truly applied as they were "p4p" better than any heavyweight on the planet. Back in Robinson's day it applied, as it did in the 80s for Leonard and possibly at one stage for Hagler. Back a few years, with Pac rampaging through Morales, Diaz, Oscar, Cotto and Marg, p4p number one clearly meant something too. In 2007, for Floyd, it meant something as well. But those was the last clear moments when I actually gave a damn about p4p.

Wtf are u on about? Margarito was the #1 ww. Shane beat his ass, which made him the #1 ww. Shane beat Mayorga and the only person he lost to in 2 years was Cotto in a fight that could have went either way. Shane spent a year looking for someone to fight him until he got the berto fight. That's a fact. Berto pulled out and Floyd took the chance to fight him when the Pac fight fell apart.But Shane was the #1 fighter in the division at that time. Don't create storylines. Smh losing streak. what am I talking about? I'm talking about when somebody said no one wanted to fight Mosley at that stage in his career, which is wrong as he was slated to fight Berto. Second point, Floyd fans talk about Mosley as if he was still a great fighter, yes he beat Mayorga but if you actually watch the fight, he was being soundly outboxed till that literal last second KO. Mosley v Margy was his first great performance in years, particularly at the highest level. If you know boxing than you know the age old adage of: "Every great fighter has one last great fight in him". That was Mosley's last great fight. To not box for almost over 14 months, at the age of 38/39, when in almost all your previous 4 fights but one you've looked mediocre at best, does not equate to a great opponent. It really is as simple as that. Anyway, this just goes to show how small minded Mayweather fans are that when P4P is brought up, all they can think of is him lol P4P is bigger than Floyd and if you read my original post, this whole thread isn't really about him but rather the system, or lack of, in place and how divisional rankings and superiority are far more important, imo.

Is it that serious? If you don't think Floyd should be #1 because he isn't fighting the best in his division than drop him. Who gives a ****?

lol no it doesn't, he was signed on to fight Berto but than the Haitian disaster happened and Berto had to pull out and then, some time later the Floyd fight was signed. And the Margy win was an isolated incidence, just before that, Mosley was soundly out boxed by Mayorga...of all people lol And he was on a losing streak at the highest level, losing against Cotto. His most credible win in some time was against a damn beat up Vargas. Wtf are u on about? Margarito was the #1 ww. Shane beat his ass, which made him the #1 ww. Shane beat Mayorga and the only person he lost to in 2 years was Cotto in a fight that could have went either way. Shane spent a year looking for someone to fight him until he got the berto fight. That's a fact. Berto pulled out and Floyd took the chance to fight him when the Pac fight fell apart.But Shane was the #1 fighter in the division at that time. Don't create storylines. Smh losing streak.

Been saying it for a while... whenever the Ring rated Broner #6 P4P that completely ended my interest in P4P for good. Nothing but an agenda laden list no matter how you look at it. People would rather have their favorites win in fantasy P4P matchups than to actually get in the ring and face their P4P foes, even going so far as defending a duck as bidness. That says about all you need to know about P4P lists. I totally agree, ranking Canelo and Broner and I think at one stage Maidana too, just before they fight Mayweather just stank of corruption.

Been saying it for a while... whenever the Ring rated Broner #6 P4P that completely ended my interest in P4P for good. Nothing but an agenda laden list no matter how you look at it. People would rather have their favorites win in fantasy P4P matchups than to actually get in the ring and face their P4P foes, even going so far as defending a duck as bidness. That says about all you need to know about P4P lists.

How can Floyd claim to be the best in his division? He is the lineal champion, unified champion, undefeated and wasn't recently knocked out by a blown up featherweight But Floyd die hards always point to how soundly he beat up on that blown up featherweight himself after cheating him on the scales..go figure ha....

How can Floyd claim to be the best in his division? He is the lineal champion, unified champion, undefeated and wasn't recently knocked out by a blown up featherweight Floyd retired...Manny moved up to welterweight and carved out a spot for him self as the best, Floyd returned and everyone clearly said the two best fighters in the division and "p4p" were Floyd and Manny and that fight hasn't materialised. I won't go into whose fault that is but as I've said, Floyd can't even be numero uno in his division by facing the other top guy of his era, how does he claim to be p4p no. 1? A spot he earned by default anyway lool But this is a bigger argument than Floyd/Pac...I mentioned Ward and some other people in this thread too, so let's move on.

How can Floyd claim to be the best in his division? He is the lineal champion, unified champion, undefeated and wasn't recently knocked out by a blown up featherweight

Because he beat margarito and the reason he was inactive was because no1 wanted to fight him. That includes Pacquiao. lol no it doesn't, he was signed on to fight Berto but than the Haitian disaster happened and Berto had to pull out and then, some time later the Floyd fight was signed. And the Margy win was an isolated incidence, just before that, Mosley was soundly out boxed by Mayorga...of all people lol And he was on a losing streak at the highest level, losing against Cotto. His most credible win in some time was against a damn beat up Vargas.

Wow, how did Shane hold onto that #1 spot being inactive for 17 months at 38 years old lol. Because he beat margarito and the reason he was inactive was because no1 wanted to fight him. That includes Pacquiao.

And he beat the "lineal " champ in Baldomir as well lol.... hahahaha Baldomir, one of the greats!

Floyd beat shane when shane was ranked #1 everywhere except Ring. So why you make some good points overall about p4p, to say he specifically hasn't defeated the best in the division is not accurate. And he beat the "lineal " champ in Baldomir as well lol....