Is there a SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Pacquiao USED STEROIDS?

Not that I'm a Floyd fan, I'm a truth fan, but I can tell you with 90% certainty what he was on based on very, very strong, varied and credible accounts. And no, you do not need to be tested positive to be blatantly cheating. Look at Ben Johnson in 1987. He didn't get busted but he was blatantly cheating. Lance on one of his explosive raids on the peleton. Marco Pantani. Shane Mosley. Never tested positive. I don't mean this in a mean way but we have to stop living in a fantasy world. its easy to imagine the possible benefits of PEDs to sprinters or to long distance cyclist but boxing is more than that. how many elite boxers got caught in peds? boxers needed power and stamina but boxing is more skill base and reflex base. what drugs is pac on? please tell me so we can discuss the possibility of that drug that could benefit a boxer in 2 weeks and 6 days usage. who are the boxers that got caught using it while dominating the sport of boxing? and please tell me the entity of your credible source that made you 90 percent certain that pacs is some drugs that i requested of you to reveal.

speculation should not taken as facts. in arguments all party should deal with facts. your post alternate between speculation and irrelevant data not related to the matter at hand. How so? How is it irrelevant? I simply answered the man's questions in the order they were posed. Stop with the feeble minded nonsense.

well they agreed to the testing. the cut-off date is the problem. remember the first negotiation, initially pac wanted 6 weeks and floyd wanted 2. when negotiating both party must move toward the middle. guess what when pac move toward 3 weeks, floyd move to 0 weeks. its so obvious that it's not about blood testing- its about having an alibi to get out of the fight. its weird that floyd fans is not aware of the succeeding alibis- there's so many its not even funny. no floyd fans can ever say what drugs pac is on. its as vague as floyd's uncles aside-meth. if a guy is "blatantly" cheating then he tested positive for something. Not that I'm a Floyd fan, I'm a truth fan, but I can tell you with 90% certainty what he was on based on very, very strong, varied and credible accounts. And no, you do not need to be tested positive to be blatantly cheating. Look at Ben Johnson in 1987. He didn't get busted but he was blatantly cheating. Lance on one of his explosive raids on the peleton. Marco Pantani. Shane Mosley. Never tested positive. I don't mean this in a mean way but we have to stop living in a fantasy world.

well they agreed to the testing. the cut-off date is the problem. remember the first negotiation, initially pac wanted 6 weeks and floyd wanted 2. when negotiatIng party must move toward the middle. guess what when pac move toward 3 weeks, floyd move to 0 weeks. its so obvious that it's not about blood testing- its about having an alibi to get out of the fight. its weird that floyd fans is not aware of the succeeding alibis- there's so many its not even funny. no floyd fans can ever say what drugs pac is on. its as vague as floyd's uncles aside-meth. if a guy is "blatantly" cheating then he tested positive for something. Well if ya really look at it from another perspective, the pacquiao camp, pretty much conceded to all of Floyd's demands, and the negotiation broke down completely behind really just one issue. Six weeks and two weeks and they couldn't meet in the middle for the sake of the fight? Make of that what you will.

Not if one guy is blatantly cheating and if they feel they had reason to believe he was, they're well within their rightse to ask for testing that can expose it when the post-fight test is just about useless. And asking for announced testing is like saying "Let me juice in peace!" It's so suspect it's not even funny. Blatantly cheating? I've never saw Manny shoot a needle before a fight, or dump a power pellet between rounds. Neither have you. Neither have the Mayweather's. Those are some strong words to accuse someone of, and ya don't have a shred of real proof. See thats the problem. Belief is not proof. Yeah they can ask for whatever they want, whether they are gonna get it or not is a whole different story. 2007 Pacquaio had far more leverage so yeah when it came to testing, he played it like an real playa in the game should. I can respect that. Now blantantly cheating a mofo. How about the Marquez situation. Mayweather comes in 2lbs over the contracted weight on Marquez, pays the penalty, and fights. Now thats blatantly cheating a mofo. Does Marquez raise a stink about for the next 5 years? No. He let that go man.

Thank you for your response. I'd be glad to answer you. 1) Everything is wrong with it. You're creating a roadblock. Moreover, it's a common tactic of drug cheaters on the brink of being exposed. Shane Mosley sued. Lance Armstrong. Floyd Landis. 2) Yes, it was the only issue. Mayweather had already signed the bout agreement. So of Pacquiao had signed his, the fight would've gone down in March 2010. The reason he doesn't want to work with Bob is due to the whole fiasco with trying to make the fight again in 2011/2012 and Arum's 213,499,444 silly excuses. Arum lied to the public about wanting to make the fight while telling the GB-TR mediator in private "we have no desire to pursue a Mayweather fight at this time; were pursuing Marquez 4 on May 5th." Not to mention Arum slandering Mayweather every chance he gets while trying to undercut his PPVs. Trying to take money out of someone's pocket is NOT the way you build relationships with someone you claim to want to do business with. Come on. Besides, Arum went ON THE RECORD and said, "we have no desire to do business with Golden Boy Promotions." So this is why he said after the Cotto fight, "Arum won't let the fight happen." THIS IS THE REASON why they refuse to deal with him; it's too much of a headache. Notice how fast Mayweather-Cotto got made after he left To Prank. As for the no PPV thing, that's just a common misconception financially illiterate fans run with. How do they think they were going to finance Pacquiao's guarantee? Merchandise and hot dog sales? For the record, the Canelo fight yielded $75m (max) in gross profits from PPV. PPV is about 80% of the total money pot. So if the PAC fight generated the same record-breaking numbers, that would have left $90m to the promotion. People throw around these crazy numbers, as if Mayweather would've kept $200m to himself. Satellite and distributor take about 50-55%. Do the math. That leaves about $90m + other revenue streams (about $20m). So people saying he would get no PPV don't know what they're talking about. I'm not even sure Pacquiao knew. 3) Yes, sue him after the fight. There would be no cloud of suspicion, he would have a much stronger case, he would've gotten a career high $30m+ purse. Instead, he went and fought Clottey, lowered his negotiation leverage by drawing half (700K PPV buys) of what Mayweather went on to draw against Mosley while only making around $10m. Add lawyer fees and owed advances to To Prank and Manny was left with little. Thank you very much for posing the questions in a nice, sensible and mature manner. I appreciate it. thanks for the effort at clarification.... no disrespect meant but let me again do this point by point...in blue font... 1) Everything is wrong with it. You're creating a roadblock. The case was in reaction to floyd's camp allegation/slander.. there would be no case if there was no slander or so.. Moreover, it's a common tactic of drug cheaters on the brink of being exposed. Shane Mosley sued. Lance Armstrong. Floyd Landis. This is not a valid argument. You could not ascribe the sins of Pedro, Juan and Mario to any other individual just like that. ....and remember, the case was also sort of a mind game between pac and floyd..where the court favored pac... 2) Yes, it was the only issue. Mayweather had already signed the bout agreement. So of Pacquiao had signed his, the fight would've gone down in March 2010. Sorry to use the maidana fight but the glove issue showed floyd would walk away (so they said) just like that..even after signing on the dotted lines The reason he doesn't want to work with Bob is due to the whole fiasco with trying to make the fight again in 2011/2012 and Arum's 213,499,444 silly excuses. Arum lied to the public about wanting to make the fight while telling the GB-TR mediator in private "we have no desire to pursue a Mayweather fight at this time; were pursuing Marquez 4 on May 5th." Not to mention Arum slandering Mayweather every chance he gets while trying to undercut his PPVs. Trying to take money out of someone's pocket is NOT the way you build relationships with someone you claim to want to do business with. Come on. Besides, Arum went ON THE RECORD and said, "we have no desire to do business with Golden Boy Promotions." So this is why he said after the Cotto fight, "Arum won't let the fight happen." THIS IS THE REASON why they refuse to deal with him; it's too much of a headache. Notice how fast Mayweather-Cotto got made after he left To Prank. As for the no PPV thing, that's just a common misconception financially illiterate fans run with. How do they think they were going to finance Pacquiao's guarantee? Merchandise and hot dog sales? The issue is not where pac's guarantee will come from..it is the fighters share on the ppv sold that floyd wants to get all for himself..nothing for pac.. For the record, the Canelo fight yielded $75m (max) in gross profits from PPV. PPV is about 80% of the total money pot. And floyd wanting to keep all the fighters share is ok? So if the PAC fight generated the same record-breaking numbers, that would have left $90m to the promotion. People throw around these crazy numbers, as if Mayweather would've kept $200m to himself. Satellite and distributor take about 50-55%. Do the math. That leaves about $90m + other revenue streams (about $20m). So people saying he would get no PPV don't know what they're talking about. I'm not even sure Pacquiao knew. 3) Yes, sue him after the fight. There would be no cloud of suspicion, he would have a much stronger case, he would've gotten a career high $30m+ purse. If pac won in the ring, beating floyd in the court will be adding insult to injury and make pac look to greedy..if pac loses in the ring and sue it will only make pac appear sour graping...a sissy..pac winning the case before the fight is also a win on their mind game.. Instead, he went and fought Clottey, lowered his negotiation leverage by drawing half (700K PPV buys) of what Mayweather went on to draw against Mosley while only making around $10m. Not issue related. Add lawyer fees and owed advances to To Prank and Manny was left with little. Not true and not issue related.. Thank you very much for posing the questions in a nice, sensible and mature manner. I appreciate it. Well, it is also my pleasure to enjoy a very sensible and friendly discussion with you. Cheers!!

speculation should not taken as facts. in arguments all party should deal with facts. your post alternate between speculation and irrelevant data not related to the matter at hand. dude must be Ellerbe or something:lol1:

Thank you for your response. I'd be glad to answer you. 1) Everything is wrong with it. You're creating a roadblock. Moreover, it's a common tactic of drug cheaters on the brink of being exposed. Shane Mosley sued. Lance Armstrong. Floyd Landis. 2) Yes, it was the only issue. Mayweather had already signed the bout agreement. So of Pacquiao had signed his, the fight would've gone down in March 2010. The reason he doesn't want to work with Bob is due to the whole fiasco with trying to make the fight again in 2011/2012 and Arum's 213,499,444 silly excuses. Arum lied to the public about wanting to make the fight while telling the GB-TR mediator in private "we have no desire to pursue a Mayweather fight at this time; were pursuing Marquez 4 on May 5th." Not to mention Arum slandering Mayweather every chance he gets while trying to undercut his PPVs. Trying to take money out of someone's pocket is NOT the way you build relationships with someone you claim to want to do business with. Come on. Besides, Arum went ON THE RECORD and said, "we have no desire to do business with Golden Boy Promotions." So this is why he said after the Cotto fight, "Arum won't let the fight happen." THIS IS THE REASON why they refuse to deal with him; it's too much of a headache. Notice how fast Mayweather-Cotto got made after he left To Prank. As for the no PPV thing, that's just a common misconception financially illiterate fans run with. How do they think they were going to finance Pacquiao's guarantee? Merchandise and hot dog sales? For the record, the Canelo fight yielded $75m (max) in gross profits from PPV. PPV is about 80% of the total money pot. So if the PAC fight generated the same record-breaking numbers, that would have left $90m to the promotion. People throw around these crazy numbers, as if Mayweather would've kept $200m to himself. Satellite and distributor take about 50-55%. Do the math. That leaves about $90m + other revenue streams (about $20m). So people saying he would get no PPV don't know what they're talking about. I'm not even sure Pacquiao knew. 3) Yes, sue him after the fight. There would be no cloud of suspicion, he would have a much stronger case, he would've gotten a career high $30m+ purse. Instead, he went and fought Clottey, lowered his negotiation leverage by drawing half (700K PPV buys) of what Mayweather went on to draw against Mosley while only making around $10m. Add lawyer fees and owed advances to To Prank and Manny was left with little. Thank you very much for posing the questions in a nice, sensible and mature manner. I appreciate it. speculation should not taken as facts. in arguments all party should deal with facts. your post alternate between speculation and irrelevant data not related to the matter at hand.

Not if one guy is blatantly cheating and if they feel they had reason to believe he was, they're well within their rights to ask for testing that can expose it when the post-fight test is just about useless. And asking for announced testing is like saying "Let me juice in peace!" It's so suspect it's not even funny. well they agreed to the testing. the cut-off date is the problem. remember the first negotiation, initially pac wanted 6 weeks and floyd wanted 2. when negotiating both party must move toward the middle. guess what when pac move toward 3 weeks, floyd move to 0 weeks. its so obvious that it's not about blood testing- its about having an alibi to get out of the fight. its weird that floyd fans is not aware of the succeeding alibis- there's so many its not even funny. no floyd fans can ever say what drugs pac is on. its as vague as floyd's uncles aside-meth. if a guy is "blatantly" cheating then he tested positive for something.

pacman is not the brightest star, he couldnt have gotten away with juicing for this long. I do think Pac used PED's Evol. Not all the time obviously or else he'd have been busted. I think he'd used shortly enough time before the Floyd incident for his team to be wary enough about the requested testing regime from Money. None of that takes away the fact that Floyd was avoiding him at all costs though. I don't think he used anymore than any other elite.

hmmm....this is really far out.... let us go back... "Not to mention suing the guy you're claiming to want to do business with." what's wrong with this? "He could've taken the tests, beat his a$$"....are you sure the test issue is REALLY the last issue to the fight happening? what about bob? no ppv? and the gloves? "and THEN sue him." why after the fight? just asking.... Thank you for your response. I'd be glad to answer you. 1) Everything is wrong with it. You're creating a roadblock. Moreover, it's a common tactic of drug cheaters on the brink of being exposed. Shane Mosley sued. Lance Armstrong. Floyd Landis. 2) Yes, it was the only issue. Mayweather had already signed the bout agreement. So of Pacquiao had signed his, the fight would've gone down in March 2010. The reason he doesn't want to work with Bob is due to the whole fiasco with trying to make the fight again in 2011/2012 and Arum's 213,499,444 silly excuses. Arum lied to the public about wanting to make the fight while telling the GB-TR mediator in private "we have no desire to pursue a Mayweather fight at this time; were pursuing Marquez 4 on May 5th." Not to mention Arum slandering Mayweather every chance he gets while trying to undercut his PPVs. Trying to take money out of someone's pocket is NOT the way you build relationships with someone you claim to want to do business with. Come on. Besides, Arum went ON THE RECORD and said, "we have no desire to do business with Golden Boy Promotions." So this is why he said after the Cotto fight, "Arum won't let the fight happen." THIS IS THE REASON why they refuse to deal with him; it's too much of a headache. Notice how fast Mayweather-Cotto got made after he left To Prank. As for the no PPV thing, that's just a common misconception financially illiterate fans run with. How do they think they were going to finance Pacquiao's guarantee? Merchandise and hot dog sales? For the record, the Canelo fight yielded $75m (max) in gross profits from PPV. PPV is about 80% of the total money pot. So if the PAC fight generated the same record-breaking numbers, that would have left $90m to the promotion. People throw around these crazy numbers, as if Mayweather would've kept $200m to himself. Satellite and distributor take about 50-55%. Do the math. That leaves about $90m + other revenue streams (about $20m). So people saying he would get no PPV don't know what they're talking about. I'm not even sure Pacquiao knew. 3) Yes, sue him after the fight. There would be no cloud of suspicion, he would have a much stronger case, he would've gotten a career high $30m+ purse. Instead, he went and fought Clottey, lowered his negotiation leverage by drawing half (700K PPV buys) of what Mayweather went on to draw against Mosley while only making around $10m. Add lawyer fees and owed advances to To Prank and Manny was left with little. Thank you very much for posing the questions in a nice, sensible and mature manner. I appreciate it.

Not if one guy is blatantly cheating and if they feel they had reason to believe he was, they're well within their rights to ask for testing that can expose it when the post-fight test is just about useless. And asking for announced testing is like saying "Let me juice in peace!" It's so suspect it's not even funny. ok...let me see.... oh oh that young busty sexy blonde is blatantly ogling me.... i feel i have reason to believe she's going to rape me...take my virginity away.. handcuff her!!!! quick!!

Lol. Coulda woulda shoulda. Floyd coulda dropped the whole OST debacle and went ahead with the fight. Or better still, just went ahead with the 3 blood test Manny was willing to spot him. All of Floyd's other demands were agreed upon. It works both ways man. Again, you got one cat who fights who they put in front of him, Vs one cat who fights who he puts in front of himself, only if you play by all his rules. Everybody ain't gotta bow down like that man thats life. Not if one guy is blatantly cheating and if they feel they had reason to believe he was, they're well within their rights to ask for testing that can expose it when the post-fight test is just about useless. And asking for announced testing is like saying "Let me juice in peace!" It's so suspect it's not even funny.

Wanna know what's funny? Half of the users who posted in this thread aren't Paulie fans, they are all Floyd fans accusing Pacquiao of doping. Remember when Juan showed up with a minefield of steroid acne, they defended that too, but yet accuse Manny :lol1: Sad group of people. Yup, these Floyd minions/lovers will do anything to smear Floyd's arch nemesis. The thing is they know Pac is Floyd's rival, but the sad truth is they don't want the fight to happen. As a result they rather let Floyd hide under their butt cracks lol This shows how much they fear Pac as a rival. If I'm a fan of a fighter I will wish that guy fights his nemesis. And everyone know it has always been Pacquiao. Even up to this point. At the end of the day even if this drug crusade ever gets ironed out. The last card will always be.. Wait.. Wait... NO TO PUNCHERS GLOVES WE HAVE A FIGHT. :gay:

their evidence is that he didnt agree to test. no, he didnt agree to floyd's testing. pacquiao has always agreed to every testing his sport's governing bodies demand of him and always passed with flying colors. they say the power isnt there anymore. but isnt he passed prime? who has knocked out tim bradley? who has knocked clottey? who has knocked out rios? Wrong-he didn't agree to USADA's testing-not Mayweather's. Pac has always passed the same testing that Mosely and other cheaters have gotten to sneak through the cracks. In fact, that is why him and Roach were always parroting "let the commision do their jobs". ...Ironically a lot of people blamed JMM for being on junk when he passed the same tests that Pac passed...yet now Pac's bf's here want more strict testing....yet condemn Floyd for asking for it several years ago....irony.

He can say what he wants. That means little. (He doesn't call the shots in his camp anyway, Arum does.) What means a lot, however, is running from tests while coming up with irrational reasons for doing so. Not to mention suing the guy you're claiming to want to do business with. He could've taken the tests, beat his a$$ and THEN sue him. It's just all very flimsy and suspect. hmmm....this is really far out.... let us go back... "Not to mention suing the guy you're claiming to want to do business with." what's wrong with this? "He could've taken the tests, beat his a$$"....are you sure the test issue is REALLY the last issue to the fight happening? what about bob? no ppv? and the gloves? "and THEN sue him." why after the fight? just asking....

he turned down floyd treating him like a fcking cheater. that's what he did. pacquiao has never denied any tests his sport's ruling bodies required of him. LOL-Pac was screaming "let the commission do their jobs" because he didn't want RANDOM testing (until several YEARS later after getting sparked out by Marquez). He said the only way he would do blood testing was if it was limited to 3 days that he wanted to know the EXACT date. Did the Mayweather's treat him like a cheater-yes, and it was enhanced due to a refusal for RANDOMIZED testing that BOTH fighters would undergo....do we need to remind you all of team Pac's excuses when asked about random testing???

One thing we learned from this thread is that there are some posters that don't know what "proof" or "evidence" mean. Amen........

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645512 so crawford ducking a ped test after the fight is gotta be worse than walking away from failed negotiations amirite floyd fans? amirite? lets not do double standards ok????? Haven't you heard, they're only concerned with drug testing/PED related content when it comes to the soft spoken Filipino. Berto, Bey, Love, Gamboa, Crawford and all of them can come up dirty and dodge tests but they ain't no Pacroid.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645512 so crawford ducking a ped test after the fight is gotta be worse than walking away from failed negotiations amirite floyd fans? amirite? lets not do double standards ok?????