Are slicksters ruining boxing?

Also here's a quick list of guys who could have employed this style but didn't in favor of actually FIGHTING even if they did win on decision quite often and used it as a strategy. (said some of these before) Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Mike MCcallum, Thomas Hearns , Willie Pep, Manny Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, and Benny Leonard. These are also most of my favorite fighters. I've never been a huge fan of brawlers although I do have a soft spot for a few. Granted a lot of these guys have real POWER but if they had focused on the aspects of the game that modern boxers do they wouldn't have nearly the knockout percentages that they do and would probably have less losses. Just putting this out there for the running accusation in this thread that I somehow don't appreciate technical boxing or that these people whom I discussing are somehow the height of technical perfection. (Also whats up with all this alt talk, and why do people seem smugly insulting when they bring it up? )

I was suprised that this post took off as much as it did, not that its that popular but usually in this forum unless your talking about boxer A is such and such, then the post doesn't get this much response. Thank you all for your input but scale down the hate a little why don't ya? :smashfrea I didn't mean that I hate technical or slick boxers (and btw I think slicksters is a stupid term too I just felt it would make the title shorter) I meant that I hate guys who run around and sacrifice speed for power to throw basically speed shots with no power. One user put it perfectly. "imagine ray leonard throwing pitty pat punches all night while on the move, and he has real speed remember that, he'd be harder to catch than normal, likely would never tire, but it would be a shameful display, and extremely boring unless the opponent sparked him, this pitty pat stuff that many fighters are coming out with in todays boxing is embarrassing and it's purely defensive, literally all they have done is found a way to be completely on the defensive whilst scoring points " Im sorry I don't know how to quote on this site, I'm new. Ray Leonard, Ali, even the great Willie Pep (who had a LOW KO percentage) they were all extremely slick/ won on points a lot and you know what makes their fights more exciting to watch was the fact that they still tried to take it to their opponent, they threw leveraged shots at least every now and then. I don't want to see everyone brawl, I don't want to see two fighters stuck in cement. I want to see people get that old mentality back. The truth is the only warrior who exist now are mostly brawlers all the guys who have the skill set to not commit to shots and use speed to win while barely giving their opponent a headache do so. I think judge's should at least take damage into consideration because I think they seem to not even notice it, this isn't amateur (btw to who ever said to bring in headgear to make boxing more technical studies have shown that at an elite level head gear actually contributes to more knockouts than it stops 2016 olympics is set to have no headgear). I did not post this thread in response to the Algieri vs. Provo decision like a lot of people seem to believe. Sorry for the rant. Thanks for the responses guys.

No brawlers are because they aren't good enough or skilled enough to beat them. Go watch dog fighting instead if your not entertained by the sweet science. Without brawlers this sport would be dead and buried.

Okay let me put this out there first, I love slick boxers, I think their are several boxers from the seventies who did it well without taking away from the game. Any boxer has to make a choice stylistically between speed and power and lately the slick technical boxers in the scene have chosen to rely on speed exclusively to win matches. Running behind the jab and relying on decisions. They don't even seem preoccupied with hurting their opponents at all. In the bygone, more exciting ages of boxing people cared more about knocking out their opponents about really beating them and not just winning a "game". It used to be the technical guys still scored a hell of a lot more knockouts even if they weren't power punchers. I guess this is kind of a rant and I'm sorry but I feel like this is killing the soul of boxing. I enjoy a good technical schooling as much as the next guy hell I appreciate it but if you never commit because your scared of getting caught then your just scared. wow.. smart move making an alt, but thats the only smart thing about that ****.. there arent more slick boxers now than before, there have always been plenty of pure boxers in the game. well not quite always, but going almost 100 years back. only difference is the fans. back then the fans could appreciate it, now there are almost no hardcore boxing fans left. just these random violence fans with no appreciation for real quality boxing who call themselves hardcore fans. this IS the soul of boxing and it always has been, not pure boxers but the variety of styles. peoples attempt to crucify fighters for their style, THAT is whats killing boxings soul. again, only thing thats changed is the "fans". nobody who fights for a living is scared to get hit, they just understand what it is they do for a living. you arent supposed to get hit, plain and simple. if you can win without getting hit thats what you should do, take what you need to take but nothing more. just like in any other sport, you cant keep your opponent scoreless in most sports but that doesnt mean you should just hand out free points. its not a ****ing charity, if you want to score you better have the skill and know how or you simply cant compete. so if you arent a fan of quality boxing, stop watching top level fights. they have these cards were random people from the audience fight each other or maybe you could go to ireland on vacation and watch some bare knuckle gypsy fights. but you cant have world class boxing without boxing. just deal with it it, boxing is what it is and it doesnt need changing. you are the one buying a loaf of bread and complaining its not milk, so just stop buying the bread if you dont want it. edit: for the record there was absolutely nothing wrong with algieris performance. im looking forward to watching him again more than i ever did watching provodnikov.

They aren't bad for the sport. Just don't expect to be making major money with that style the only way you will is if you have good mic skills. Rigondeaux has got to be the slickest dude in there but he isn't putting people in seats. To be a big draw you need to have power, skills, back story, mic skills, rivals, uniqueness. Not just try and be slick and shoulder roll and potshot because floyd is successful. Floyd has done alot for the sport but he's also changed the way people go about business. Alot of guys duck now, alot of guys want to protect their 0 because they think it will make them more money. But what they don't see is floyd has fought alot of top guys and still beat them. These guys are fighting nobodies and think they're top fighters only to fall short when they step up and get called hype jobs.

I don't mind guys who don't want to stand and trade if they're still doing something. Saturdays fight wasn't Gatti/ward but it was a decent watch, Algieri threw plenty of punches without standing and trading which would have been suicidal against Provodnikov, so I didn't mind. He thrw something like 1000 punches didn't he? It's these guys who throw 200-300 over 12 rounds and bore everyone senseless who are bad for business.

They should pour wet cement in the ring and make boxers fight in it, that way they can't move their feet and just stand in 1 place and throw punches Fighters like James Tony and Sweat Pea were able to stand right in front of you without moving thier feet and bob and weave to avoid thier opponents shots while making them pay in return. I have nothing against "boxers" but when a boxer looks like he's playing a game of "tag you're it" rather than actually imposing his will and trying to throw meaningful shots, then it takes away from the fight as a whole. If boxing was full of nothing but jab flickers then boxing wouldnt even be a televised sport.

No brawlers are because they aren't good enough or skilled enough to beat them. Go watch dog fighting instead if your not entertained by the sweet science.

This thread doesn't even make sense because Algieri was exciting. He was throwing hooks, hard rights, uppercuts, body shots, and he was throwing them in combinations. Why not just make the thread you actually want to make, which is that you're mad the guy you wanted to win didn't win. Just admit that's your problem, not Algieri's fighting style.

Okay let me put this out there first, I love slick boxers, I think their are several boxers from the seventies who did it well without taking away from the game. Any boxer has to make a choice stylistically between speed and power and lately the slick technical boxers in the scene have chosen to rely on speed exclusively to win matches. Running behind the jab and relying on decisions. They don't even seem preoccupied with hurting their opponents at all. In the bygone, more exciting ages of boxing people cared more about knocking out their opponents about really beating them and not just winning a "game". It used to be the technical guys still scored a hell of a lot more knockouts even if they weren't power punchers. I guess this is kind of a rant and I'm sorry but I feel like this is killing the soul of boxing. I enjoy a good technical schooling as much as the next guy hell I appreciate it but if you never commit because your scared of getting caught then your just scared. I don't know about ruining the sport, but I miss that mentality about boxing. It used to be guys going out trying for a KO now it's just try to outpoint your opponent.

Fighters have to ustilise their natural attributes. Some rely on power/chin and others use boxing skills such as footwork. If you're not a power puncher the only way to fight a power puncher is to try and outbox him and vice versa.

I find all this 'slickster' stuff pretty ridiculous. If a boxer has great movement and timing it makes sense that he makes the most of these attributes and bases his style around his strengths. If a boxer has a granite chin and power in both hands then again, he should use a come forward style, it would be stupid not to. It is the difference in styles that makes boxing interesting for the non-casual fan. The best man will usually win. The only preference I have for a puncher is that a KO makes a win indisputable. It would seem that too may decisions are disputed using some kind of ridiculous non-logic - 'power shots VS punches landed' or 'body punches were counted' blah blah blah... Knock you opponent out and you win the fight, can't be more simple than that. Finally - a true 'slickster' does not get hit clean, Lara and FMJ are probably the best examples. Adrien 'you can't hit me!'Broner is certainly not.

i've watched clay/ali's fight when tvs were still on black & white only... so many talks of floyd being TBE, being the money icon of boxing/sports etc., etc... do i subscribe to the above,,, NO so i am one not easily mobbed/swayed by others' opinion.... i watched fights so i can say my piece....based on how i saw the fights... clay/ali running circles around his opponents was a sight to behold...as he danced to set something up... notice that i use the names clay/ali...... not only to denote how long i was into boxing....but also to denote how ali evolved from clay...or how one clay became ali....for me the GOAT.... it was through watching him fight...not by reading or listening to others opinions Wow bro. You're such an OG. Hespect.

Ali had some very boring fights against mediocre opponents. You just get mobbed for saying so because he's a cultural icon in addition to a boxer. What gets me is people who say they love Ali but when they see a modern fighter fighting the same way he's a running chicken. It just seems to me like that person has no opinions of their own and just going with the whims of the crowd. i've watched clay/ali's fight when tvs were still on black & white only... so many talks of floyd being TBE, being the money icon of boxing/sports etc., etc... do i subscribe to the above,,, NO so i am one not easily mobbed/swayed by others' opinion.... i watched fights so i can say my piece....based on how i saw the fights... clay/ali running circles around his opponents was a sight to behold...as he danced to set something up... notice that i use the names clay/ali...... not only to denote how long i was into boxing....but also to denote how ali evolved from clay...or how one clay became ali....for me the GOAT.... it was through watching him fight...not by reading or listening to others opinions

Funny how the fighter with the inability to cut off the ring never gets the blame. ^^^^ This. All this whining because Ruslan is a limited fighter and COULDN'T do what it takes to beat a superior boxer. Cutting off the ring, body work, letting your hands go when your opponent is on the ropes......all tried and true methods for a brawler to have success against a boxer. Ruslan sucked at those last night, just as he sucked at them against Bradley when he decided to box. Ruslan is just not a good boxer when his opponent doesn't stand and trade with him.

Funny how the fighter with the inability to cut off the ring never gets the blame.

Yeah what are they doing winning fights Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

LOL. Imagine a basketball fan saying "are 3 point shooters ruining the NBA". "Slick" fighters have existed since the early 20's and the hall of fame is loaded with "slicksters". Another case of cannibalistic boxing fans. They crap on andcweide their own sport

LOL. Imagine a basketball fan saying "are 3 point shooters ruining the NBA". "Slick" fighters have existed since the early 20's and the hall of fame is loaded with "slicksters".

NO...sorry but no fighter is suppose to "LET HIS OPPONENT HIT HIM" or "KNOCK HIM OUT" How about Brawlers learn how to cut the ring off, the sport is "BOXING" not "BRAWLING" Rules are not going to change, this sport was built on "BOXERS" "Slicksters" look at your all time great list, most of them at the Top was "Slickersters" from Ali to Willie Pep what made them special was their Footwork, Speed and Quickness Boxing is not going to change to appeal to the NEW BOXING FANS, new Rules won't be put in place and fighters are not going to change their styles and all become "STRICTLY BRAWLERS" very good to a point.... clay/ali who i considered the GOAT used his agility, speed and very good footwork; and as he said "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee".... and sting like a bee ali always did try to....with really bad intention of putting early closure to a fight... for me, the problem is when there is a very big gap between what other "slick" fighters wish to or intends to achieve and that of ali,....bcoz here lies the difference between exciting and boring fights