Sergio "great" or "myth"??

Myth. Circles the ring with his hands down like a chimp and hopes to eventually surprise you when he jumps in. Seasoned pros won't fall for that. Reputation built on the Williams KO.

From the first time I saw Martinez fight, I never thought he was "great". I always had this lingering thought of "he's just good enough to be recognized, but not good enough to be considered top 3 p4p". Then again, I don't follow much boxing, but I do agree he's been overrated a bit. you don't follow boxing and you can rank a p4p number 3? you opinion is invalid. Martinez is a top p4p fighter, one of the best 2 or 3 on the planet and has been for a while. This is a guy who was a comfortable 154 pounder, moved up to middleweight, should have won the first fight with williams instead he had to settle for a rematch and took the punisher's soul. one of the best and most important KOs of recent times. Wins over Pavlik, Barker, Macklin, and Murray, most of which have been emphatic and of course thr absolute schooling of junior make him the best mw since hopkins, in fact, in terms of impressive title defences against legit opponents he is on par with hopkins, the only thing holding hopkins afloat in terms of being a middleweight is the length of his reign and his KO of tito. Martinez is not great...yet, who knows, recovery from injury, unifying belts against the likes of GGG or Quillin and you can't deny he is one of the best middleweights ever. but only time will tell.

From the first time I saw Martinez fight, I never thought he was "great". I always had this lingering thought of "he's just good enough to be recognized, but not good enough to be considered top 3 p4p". Then again, I don't follow much boxing, but I do agree he's been overrated a bit.

Somewhere in between I've always been a huge fan of Sergio and his style. However, it does have gaping flaws against the right kind of boxer. People like to make excuses about injuries and wet canvases and stupid sh1t for why he lost to Murray in his last fight. However, it was mostly Murray's style which fuked Sergio up. It also happened with Barker and Macklin to an extent. Murray just perfected it. If you fight super defensively and force Sergio to take the lead, he looks lost at times. A bit like Donaire did when he fought Rigo or to a lesser extent, Narvaez. Or Pacquaio when he fought Mosley. These kinds of fighters with great speed and athleticism thrive on come forward fighters. That's why I actually think Golovkin's style will suit him more. If you don't give Sergio much to hit, he becomes predictable and you can time him up the middle the way Murray did.

2nd option. fake King..

I wouldn't bestow the title of "great" upon him yet. He's an entertaining guy to watch, yes. But I wouldn't give him great yet.

I never thought Martinez was anything special. His KO of Paul Williams was enough for HBO to put the hype machine in effect. HBO and DiBella (a former HBO employee) hyped him as much as did Jermaine Taylor at one point. He's an OK boxer with OK skills. If you look at the boxers he defeated you can't put any of them in the elite category. Beating Golovkin wouldn't do it for me either because I don't Golovkin has accomplished anything as a professional either.

First I'll say that coordination and boxing skills are high with Sergio. He has some ring generalship and knows how to set a pace to his advantage very well. Add to that speed and incredible conditioning that allows him to move at a very fast pace for 12 rounds. I won't debate your whole post but as you know he only started boxing at 20 and 2 years later turned pro. His loss to Margarito came after barely 2 years as a pro on his 18th fight...so he was still greenish and Margarito was pretty tough...really there was no shame in that loss. Golovkin only just started fighting in the US in Sept and he was not going to go to Germany to fight him...and yes in any case he likely might have been in over his head if he did even in the US. Outside of Daniel Geale and Peter Quillin...who I think he would have beat...who was left in the division to fight? I find his style very entertaining and up until his last fight friggin remarkable at his age. I really enjoyed watching him and it's to bad his body gave out.

that cruiserweight stuff is non sense as well. if you want to credit sergio for beating a cw .. he is a cruiserweight who had to drain himself to get to 160. So by this logic it would be similar to the ward dawson fight. but it was the opposite. sergio got put on his azz. Diuretics, like you know, the ones Jr had already been caught taking could have helped him out with that. Bad comparison too. Chinny Dawson is nothing like Chavez. I only mention Chavez because an ageing middleweight hitting a cruiserweight punching bag for 12 rounds can cause some injuries.

So you think Sergio is great? I have nothing but respect for Sergio but I can list you 150 greater fighters. By 'great' do you mean ATG? If that's what you mean then no, I do not consider him an ATG. I do think he is a very good fighter with a very good career who will no doubt make it to the HOF.

You say this like it means something I'm just bringing you the facts, you can interpret them as you please. :bottle:

First I'll say that coordination and boxing skills are high with Sergio. He has some ring generalship and knows how to set a pace to his advantage very well. BUT!!! The talk about this young man being a "great fighter" gets to be ridiculous to me! Not unlike any other novice pro he fought no one coming up and his "first" test was a disaster KO loss to Margarieto! His "second" test was a dec. draw to Cintron!! His "third" test was a dec. loss to Williams! His "fourth" test is a dec. win over Pavlik! His biggest win to date is not even over a middleweight in a KO win rematch of Williams! None of these wins or looses are against great fighters by any means! if anyone thinks his win over Junior is a defineing moment you really need to look into tennis or golf! This guy is a mover who knows distance and has traps that these ordinary opponents fall into (to his credit) He has very good head movement and upper body movement too! He slides to both sides very well and has an effortless manner about him. However; His movement becomes "running" when confrontations begin. He's not very good at tieing up and walking off! His recupertive powers aren't very good and his punching power is average! From 1997 to 2007 other than Margarieto the guy fought no one! Ten years of fighting under the main event fighters isn't exactly a great fighters beginning! Using injuries as an excuse in his last outing gets a little old because he did train and was considered to be 100% to fight! If he was reinjuried in the fight that maybe a reason for his poor performance but the fact remains he was given a lesson from another good not great fighter who fought harder than Sergio did! When a better than average boxer who has average power is considered a great fighter thats Hype to me! I say this because the fighter himself has declared himself as one of the best ever and I'm sorry but this guy is NOT a top ten Middleweight Champ let alone a top twenty middleweight fighter! A talented boxer with speedy hands and feet ? YES! A great all around fighter? NO!! Half his time as a pro was spent as a welter with a few lightwelters thrown in for lunch! I personally don't like Sergio's style because of the absence of confrontations along with his inability or choice not to take center ring and box from that vantage point!! His choice and his career which has been successfull without my input hahahaha!! However the word and meaning "great" has been diluted to the meaning of "above average not spectascular but generally accepted by people who don't know" HA! :fing02: Good luck to Sergio in his acting career in South America! Ray CorsoDidn't read your ridiculously long rant, but to answer the title of the thread, neither. Just, really good fighter. It doesn't have to be polar opposites.

Who'd Williams beat at MW? Paul Williams was more established at middleweight than Sergio was when they first fought. Sergio was moving up to 160 for the first time and Paul Williams had wins over Winky Wright (UD & first to truly dominate him) and Andy Kolle (KO1).

No. His best wins are Chavez jr and Kelly Pavlik. Paul Williams??

Styles make fights. He would be beat Floyd, as he is a power-punching southpaw with a good jab and very good workrate. Seriously, the guy just came back after tons of surgery from wailing on a cruiserweight, who happened to be the only fighter he didn't knock out since schooling Pavlik. Man, a lot of short-term memory in this forum. that cruiserweight stuff is non sense as well. if you want to credit sergio for beating a cw .. he is a cruiserweight who had to drain himself to get to 160. So by this logic it would be similar to the ward dawson fight. but it was the opposite. sergio got put on his azz.

very good? yes great? no he gets too much hype. People talk as if its a no brainer that he will beat floyd... thats non-sense. He has not achieved what floy/manny or even cotto has and he never will. Styles make fights. He would be beat Floyd, as he is a power-punching southpaw with a good jab and very good workrate. Seriously, the guy just came back after tons of surgery from wailing on a cruiserweight, who happened to be the only fighter he didn't knock out since schooling Pavlik. Man, a lot of short-term memory in this forum.

very good? yes great? no he gets too much hype. People talk as if its a no brainer that he will beat floyd... thats non-sense. He has not achieved what floy/manny or even cotto has and he never will. Those are 2 different things. At some point he would have been a very dangerous fight even for Floyd, on account of superior size, in addition to very good skills and athleticism. But agree he was a bit overrated as a p4per. his post PWill 2 stretch is not that good. Like other posters said, Floyd or Pac would be crucified for taking on guys like Barker or even Macklin or Murray or Dzin.

very good? yes great? no he gets too much hype. People talk as if its a no brainer that he will beat floyd... thats non-sense. He has not achieved what floy/manny or even cotto has and he never will.

I have to agree with you Ray Corso. Martinez is a very good fighter that was still very good at an age when most fighters are well over the hill. I think he falls short of being a great fighter. I think most of the talk of him being a great fighter started with his one punch KO of Williams but his first fight with Williams was a fight that could have gone either way and Williams got the win. Very few fight fans consider Williams a great fighter. Martinez is not shy about telling the world how great he is. I think he is days of being the middleweight champ will end as soon as he fights any of the very best middleweights. He can only stay champ by picking his fights carefully.

I'd take Sergio over Hagler prime for prime anyday