Hopkins and TRT

Was Archie Moore or George Foreman on TRT? There is a long history of guys doing well in their 40's, obviously it's rare but it happens. There are lots of things you start to lose in your 40's, not just testosterone. It's important for people in their 40's to take B12 because you lose hydrochloric acid in the stomach thats needed to absorb important nutrients and digest food properly. Should some one "Bow out the game" because they need to take vitamin B12? If you're in your 40's and you take natural supplements, vitamins, etc. to stay healthy & fit, there's nothing wrong with that. Regular 9 to 5 working class people do this why shouldn't athletes? Anyways, I do agree with you on TRT only because its easy to abuse in sports. B12 is okay and natural supps are okay, my thing is every fighter should present their supplements and vitamin containers to the commission before training camp so they can be tested so they don't get a false positive from tainted body building supps if they are natural its okay, just stay away from prohormones and muscle builders with test boosters, TRT and all those prohormones shouldn't be allowed, like you said Archie More an Foreman were not on that crap and they were still fighting at an older age, if guys today can't compete at that level they should retire not cheat the people who are doing it naturally.

Natas I think those iron and multi vitamins would be included in natural, the majority of people take mineral and vitamin pills those are okay its when you started dabbling in test boosters, and body builder stuff. Basic Whey protein is good, fish oils, vit c, all those are okay, but they have no effect on ones performance as Steroids or prohormones would. I think TRT should be outlawed, the reason these guys have low test and they are below 40 is because they probably juiced or overtrained. You can easily overtrain lowering your testosterone levels, like Peterson his doctor gave him TRT because he felt sluggish and he told him his test levels were a bit low for his age, a lot of body builders who take roids will tell you that its possible that you can lower your test through over training. But if your test levels are lower and you cant compete anymore bow out respectfully and do the right thing, don';t cheat others man, its wrong.

It would be impossible to ban supplements though. Testing can't determine if you're taking total normal supplements. If I'm low in Iron and take Iron supplements, testing couldn't determine if I'm taking iron supplements versus eating a lot of spinach. You sure about that? There might be some chemical characteristics of store bought iron supplements that differentiate it from other sources. In any case, it's the impact on the body that matters from a competitive point of view. Iron supplements are great but I guess they won't measure up to anabolic steroids when it comes down to it.

Where do you draw the line as to what's natural? Drinking protein shakes, having modern medicine and suppliments wasn't available to fighters a hundred years ago. Is it natural? Your doctor tells you your low in iron, you take iron to boost the levels back up. I don't see how TRT is much different (when not abused, obviously ). I fully understand that TRT is being abused though so don't get me wrong, but there are legit reasons to take it. You're average Joe Blow who isn't an athlete may need TRT. I made a thread on this a while back, This is what I think http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=582026

the majority of top guys probably use hopkins has probably been on something since his late 30s but who knows also WTF is this about JMM "having a second puberty" I think hes BEEN using not just started and he is like a few pounds less fat than his previous fight, really that is it, a few pounds difference and people make a huge deal out of it. It is not a second ****ing puberty that is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Sighs, I am a huge Marquez fan but I ain't going to put wool over my eyes I call it how I see it. He was a few pounds of FAT less, seriously anyone can tell his body looked different. Being ripped and muscular does;t mean you are a smaller. Pacman has always been muscular and shredded, JMM has never been that way and he is 39 or so when your test levels drop. Memo bulked him up in the 3rd fight so JMM lost a bit of speed he was like 150 something pounds on fight night the most he ever weighed but nobody said it was suspect, he weighed 143 pounds bloated and soaking wet against Floyd and this is why people thought Pac would destroy Marquez in the third fight until Marquez hired memo, and the 4th fight his body was rock solid and looked unnatural reminded me of Fernando Vargas body before he fought Oscar.

How can you say it's unnatural for Hopkins do go through training camp at 48? Did archie moore not go through training camps at the same age? Also how can you say Hopkins is training like he's in his prime? All the training video's I've seen of Hopkins for Cloud he's doing "light" work, nothing crazy just working the pads, etc. (and it's usually at a pretty slow pace tbh). i don't believe i ever said that hopkins would be training the way he would in his prime. if i did it was unintentional, and it wouldn't paint a realistic picture of his workload. that's not what believe is happening. moore wouldn't be going through a "training camp" in the late 50's and early 60's. they fought a lot more, and didn't have many months to plan for the date of a fight with the luxury of not having other fights in between. you might have a championship fight scheduled, but until tat fight comes you are going to be int he ring many times a year. you basically stayed in shape and close to your fighting weight, and got ready when you got a phone call to fight in a few weeks. a championship fight might be many weeks / months out, but you'd almost certainly have to fight in the interim (to make money.)

"They don't want to let me (show) a whole lot of fat people in America they can live longer if they just take some of my prescription (for life) — and not the one from their doctor,'' he says. "I'm the one to tell kids, 'You can be the best and do it by the book.' "But when a guy's clean and living right, he's boring to (the news media). I ain't walking around with a $200,000 money belt. I ain't makin' it rain with a whole bunch of girls who are naked. (They say), 'Bernard, you're not the guy bringing drama. You stayed out of jail.'" Hopkins was 46 when he won a unanimous decision against Haitian-born Canadian Jean Pascal in May 2011, breaking the mark of Foreman, who was 45 when he knocked out Michael Moorer with one well-timed punch. "(People) are shocked because (they say), 'How are you doing this, man?' '' Hopkins says. "We know how Lance Armstrong did it. But you've got somebody who is clean, man. Winning makes it even better.'' I believe Hopkins is clean, his body hasn't made a transformation like Juan Manuel Marquez, and its more so his opposition that makes him look good, than him being on something, he still picks his shots well and knows how to pace himself. Marquez on the other hand is highly suspect, the guy would do anything to beat Pacman and not get robbed and I think he probably felt Pac was on the juice so he wanted to be on it too and found Memo. Plus his bulging trap muscles is a huge sign, look at Vitor Belfort he was off the juice for a while at 185 and his body looked like crap, than he got a TRT exemption and all of a sudden his muscles got fuller and were bulging and he looked like the old Vitor. Maybe Marquez could have been on TRT and is one of the well known boxers Kizer said has an exemption in Las Vegas. If I were Nevada I would get rid of that TRT crap, its basically a legit way to cheat all you have to do is roid up and taper off like cheaters normally do to cheat tests and your test levels will not break the allowed limit

the majority of top guys probably use hopkins has probably been on something since his late 30s but who knows also WTF is this about JMM "having a second puberty" I think hes BEEN using not just started and he is like a few pounds less fat than his previous fight, really that is it, a few pounds difference and people make a huge deal out of it. It is not a second ****ing puberty that is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

All that TRT stuff is because they abused steroids in the past And messed up their natural production process (supposedly) The TS is missing the big picture of how B-Hop is beating these guys; He is beating them with years of boxing IQ, not much wasted motion, And when was the last time you ever seen him take a lot of punishment. Besides if you workout your body creates testosterone well into later years, And this guy is an "elite athlete"

Hendo is 42 and have taken a lot more damage than Hopkins. Sonnen, Marquardt and Mir is probably bull****. Sonnen was on his Twitter and he knows a lot about steroids, and TRT he takes them lol, he also advises the Nevada commission, he was saying Marquez was on steroids basically saying how did this guy have a second puberty? He also said people are crying but you are talking to a guy (sonnen) who knows when someone is on something or not. I think TRT is BS, I don't care if you are older, if you can't compete naturally on a high level anymore you know what they say its time to retire. Fair is fair, no need in prolonging your career unnaturally, look at Big George Foreman slow and overweight and was able to recapture the title without trt.

Has anyone ever asked Hopkins whether he takes TRT or not? In MMA you have fighters in their 30's taking advantage of Testosterone Replacement Therapy (a lot of them unfairly) but Hopkins is 48. I heard that even if he is taking it, the athletic commissions can choose not to disclose it if the fighter does not want it going public. Not taking anything away from Bernard, I'm not a fan of his style of fighting but he is doing amazing things at 48. Taking out fighters nearly half his age and in THEIR athletic prime. The commission has a privacy clause and can never release who takes TRT unless that person tests above the allowed limit I believe. Its interesting because Keith Kizer said that there is a few boxers who are on TRT and have an Testosterone use exemption, but he can't give names, apparently they are well known.

And? Speeches and public statements count for nothing. If Hopkins wants to make a point about 'doing it clean' then there are obvious ways for him to do it.

"The cynics, and the skeptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. This is one hell of a race...and hard work wins it." And? At no point in time did I believe Lance Armstrong was clean, he always came across defensive and hostile when asked about it. Hopkins? I very much believe him. He's one of the few guys in this sport that I believe wins or loses based purely on ability.

I feel sorry for you, New England, I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. are you a real doc, or do you just play one on bscene? :lol1:

what remains similar between the two is the aging process that appears to be quite unnatural. marquez is overhauling his physique in a ludicrously short window for a tiny middle aged man. and hopkins is getting through a hard training camp with road work, sparring, press tours, etc at 48. both fighters can easily be enhanced to perform better in those respects. I feel sorry for you, New England, I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

I don't thinik he is. He made a statement after the fight about not needing drugs, I believe he was trying to make it clear that he does what he does through hard work only. I believe him. "The cynics, and the skeptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. This is one hell of a race...and hard work wins it."

what does marquez looking like hulk have to do with hopkins? Look at the weigh in pictures from friday, read the comments. "Hopkins is a Zombie!" "Damn, father time has caught up with B-hop". "Hopkins looks drained". "He looks old as fck!". Meanwhile Marquez literally did look like a Mexican hulk. Totally different. Anyways, as far as TRT, as pointed out it's totally legit for some people. The tricky part is to know what your testosterone levels should be naturally and use the replacement therapy to reproduce those levels so it's not abused. Say you should be at 1:1, then that's what you should have. Not like Peterson keeping it under the suspicious cut off of 4:1 (he maintained his levels at 3.77:1). This of course isn't to say Hopkins is on TRT. Archie Moore at 48 was beating decent fighters, don't forget. But still, these threads are unnecessary at the time (right after a hopkins historic win). We all saw what Hopkins did. He used ring IQ to beat Cloud. Not power, or speed or crazy athletic abilities. Just subtle little things in the ring that confused Cloud and allowed Hopkins to control the fight (i.e ring generalship). Hopkins hasn't had a KO in what, 10 years? He's been fighting on ring smarts alone for the past few years now. it's a man whose body is aging unnaturally. marquez is putting on tons of muscle in a short period of time in his late 30's, and hopkins is training like a man in his prime when most people are starting to think about retirement in the next 5-10 years. PED's don't all turn you into the hulk. i've gone over this plenty of times. if hopkins is juicing it would be for the benefits that the drugs offer his 48 year old body over the course of a training camp. he's not using them for the production of muscle or to become stronger, though that would almost certainly be a byproduct of the sort of cycle he'd be taking. marquez was a career FW who ended up at LW in his old age, and moved to WW for the money. he wanted to put on weight. they're still both looking to do things that you can easily facilitate with the right drugs, which is essentially creating chemistry in the body similar to a younger man. the muscles and soft tissues recover like a younger man's. what remains similar between the two is the aging process that appears to be quite unnatural. marquez is overhauling his physique in a ludicrously short window for a tiny middle aged man. and hopkins is getting through a hard training camp with road work, sparring, press tours, etc at 48. both fighters can easily be enhanced to perform better in those respects.

Would be very surprised if Hopkins wasn't using it. Anything that helps you recover faster at that age, that you don't have to worry about as far as testing goes, is going to be very hard to ignore. Lots of guys start doping as they get older for that very reason, their joints are wrecked after 15-20 years of training for elite level competition, and there are drugs that can make that pain and stiffness go away. If you're not going to get caught it's entirely understandable that guys would use them. In fact, it would be pretty strange if none of them did.

And Sonnen and Hendo get to use TRT. I don't even know what's up with Marquardt's exemption status. I think Mir is on that **** too. Gotta love MMA I think it's a joke fighters are allowed to use TRT. It's a natty occurance that test lowers in age. This gives guys who have lots of ring/cage experience plus TRT a huge advantage over younger fighters. I hope it's outlawed as it makes such an ineven playing field. I personally dont think Hopkins is on TRT, all through his life he has been a fitness freak, never drinking, eating crap etc. Also his style of fighting (Gritty, SLow paced, Not explosive, great defence) lends itself for a long career. I picture Ward having a similar career and fighting much longer than other guys/

I don't thinik he is. He made a statement after the fight about not needing drugs, I believe he was trying to make it clear that he does what he does through hard work only. I believe him.